BMW is "putting all our eggs in PHEV basket," diesels dead in US after 2018

TajoMan · 09-12-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Tesla Model 3 Outsold All BMW Passenger Cars In US:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-...assenger-cars/

So what does that make a BMW?

BMW is a luxury brand. I don't think BMW competes with mainstream car manufacturer in terms of volume.

Tesla advertised and claimed to sell 'affordable' electric car. Where is it BTW?
Were they mean 'affordable for the people with $150k+ household income'?

Please let me know when Tesla outsell Toyota or VW.

PeterKBMW · 09-12-2018, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Is anybody on this forum in the United States that was actually able to buy a 2018 G30 540d here in the U.S.? I never saw any hit showroom floors in the U.S.

I'm also really disappointed there will be no G21 330d Wagon here for U.S. market.

My center delivered one back in June. Custom build for an enthusiast, had an M550-like MSRP. Is absolutely in love with it, and if the reports are true will probably hold on to it for a very long time.

X5Blair · 09-12-2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexus300

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

I just don't know but why would you want a diesel car?

Great torque and amazing gas mileage. I am getting 31 mpg on the 2015 X5d. If you are driving 70-80 miles commute daily its well worth it as you can get 650 plus miles on a tank of gas.

Absolutely, we're getting 40+ hwy in our new 540d and it's quieter than my M5 and the torque is almost as fun. For our daily 100 mike commute nothing else makes sense.

X5Blair · 09-12-2018, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Is anybody on this forum in the United States that was actually able to buy a 2018 G30 540d here in the U.S.? I never saw any hit showroom floors in the U.S.

I'm also really disappointed there will be no G21 330d Wagon here for U.S. market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Is anybody on this forum in the United States that was actually able to buy a 2018 G30 540d here in the U.S.? I never saw any hit showroom floors in the U.S.

I'm also really disappointed there will be no G21 330d Wagon here for U.S. market.

We were, ordered in Jan with ED in March. Arrived here Memorial Day. Love it! Almost as much as my F10 M5 but for other reasons.

X5Blair · 09-12-2018, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

First they killed almost all MT, then they want to kill wagon and now diesel they really want me to look somewhere else it seem.

I agree!

I felt the same way when horses, wagon wheels, 8-track players, VCR's, and bias ply tires went away...

So sad...

Well let's see a PHEV is heavier, get worst mpg on the highway, worst handling and require constant charging to make it worth it. Nice evolution yay!

Don't forget sacrificing cargo space. Have you looked inside the trunk/cargo area of the e's???

X5Blair · 09-12-2018, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TajoMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Most (81%) EV users charge at home (overnight). Public chargers are unnecessary...

For now, Tesla is just expensive toy car for rich people. That's why 81% of Tesla can be charged at home.

I'm not sure how many people in the US has their own garage but I'm pretty sure it's less than 80%.

Charging time and charging infrastructure are the key for electric vehicle.

If the car can be charged to 200 miles range in 15 minutes and number of charging station is a least 30% of current gas stations, then it's time to by electric car.

And then there's that pesky issue of what happens to those Tesla and "free" chargers if the company becomes insolvent....

X5Blair · 09-12-2018, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Quote:

Originally Posted by TajoMan

For now, Tesla is just expensive toy car for rich people. That's why 81% of Tesla can be charged at home.

I'm not sure how many people in the US has their own garage but I'm pretty sure it's less than 80%.

Charging time and charging infrastructure are the key for electric vehicle.

If the car can be charged to 200 miles range in 15 minutes and number of charging station is a least 30% of current gas stations, then it's time to by electric car.

Its not 81% of Tesla's... Its 81% of ALL EV's (inc Leaf, Bolt, Model 3, etc)

I don't know why folks get hung up on the charging infrastructure. 81% of EV users don't use it. I don't care anything about it. I'm on my third EV (Volt, Tesla, i8 Roadster) and I've NEVER used a public charger. Never even seen one. I'm not gonna take my EV for a long trip - I'll use one of my cars with an ICE for that...

Most families in the US have 2+ cars. One could be an EV.

If the range of an EV can meet your DD requirements, and you can charge at home (and/or at work), then the public charging infrastructure is meaningless...

But if your regular DD is 80, 90, 100+ miles then EV struggles. Our commute is 100. It just doesn't work. This is where diesel shines.

mckman · 09-12-2018, 06:50 PM

Thought I would be sorry to see BMW diesels go, but not so sure anymore.

I had an F31 328d for three years. Fuel economy on the highway was about 38MPG. Good, but not sure it was worth the loss of performance, compared to the gas I4.

I know BMW has passed all of the emission tests, but I always had a large amount of black soot on my rear window. Always made me wonder how clean they really are....

Just picked up a manual 340i xdrive to replace the F31 and couldn't be happier. The B58 is an amazing motor. 30MPG on the highway and loads of smooth power. Diesel works well for trucks, but not sure they make sense for the typical car purchaser unless you have a seriously long daily commute.

F32Fleet · 09-12-2018, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Quote:

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

{snip} All the govt money thrown at EV development {snip}

Yup, just like all the money thrown at ARPANET. What a waste, right?

Subsidies promote new technologies and industries, not Tariffs/Taxes...

Not the same but I think you know that.. In any case the German government spent a lot of money on the OE's to develop/promote EV.

F32Fleet · 09-12-2018, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I recently test drove a P100D it understeer way more than my 328d, I park on the street so no accès to charging point so I would have to waste my time at supercharger. The future is hydrogen.

Most (81%) EV users charge at home (overnight). Public chargers are unnecessary. Sorry you don't have a plug... You can't do this (fill up at home) with Hydrogen. Regardless - no one is making hydrogen vehicles for mass consumption right now. You might as well say the future is portable fusion... Keep fishin'...

I also have an i8 Roadster (which gets better mileage, handles better than most diesels, and doesn't need a charger at all).

...not to mention my Sierra 2500 Diesel pickup which pulls the trailer that holds my M4 track car.

Time marches on. Get over it...

EV's still are a small portion of the market because there are a lot more drivers who have limited access to parking vs those who can charge/park at home.

cbertels · 09-12-2018, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Quote:

Originally Posted by TajoMan

For now, Tesla is just expensive toy car for rich people. {snip}

Tesla Model 3 Outsold All BMW Passenger Cars In US:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-...assenger-cars/

So what does that make a BMW?

The article seems to suggest that was only in the month of August. Have they built all the ones they sold? I think I've only seen a few in the wild in the last year. Last I heard product was WAY behind, never mind the solvency and long-term sustainability of Tesla as a car manufacturer.

FaRKle! · 09-12-2018, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Most families in the US have 2+ cars. One could be an EV.

If the range of an EV can meet your DD requirements, and you can charge at home (and/or at work), then the public charging infrastructure is meaningless...

And the use case where the EV wouldn't be ideal, the diesel would be more ideal than a gas car.

For example, the other weekend I had to go from the SF Bay Area to Orange County for a family wedding. One of my other relatives (who lives close to me) took her Model S 75D. She left at 8AM on Friday and I left at 8:30AM. I went the whole way there without any stops and arrived at 2:15PM with a bit more than a quarter tank left. I dealt with some LA traffic, but it was manageable. My relative had to stop to charge twice (30min each), which net should've put her 30min behind me. However, in that time traffic worsened considerably such that she didn't arrive till 5PM, about three hours behind me.

If I had a gas BMW I might've had to stop and fill up too.

I will fully admit, that an electric car would probably more ideal efficiency wise for me in M-F commute (especially for my wife). However, on the weekends I routinely go a couple of hundred miles round trip to the mountains or BLM land and hate having to stop enroute to and from my destinations. For that the diesel serves me best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckman

I know BMW has passed all of the emission tests, but I always had a large amount of black soot on my rear window. Always made me wonder how clean they really are....

That doesn't sound right. I've never seen any soot on my rear window. Even the tailpipe stays pretty clean. The rear window will collect dust very quickly due to the aerodynamics of the hatch, but soot?

SpeedN8 · 09-12-2018, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

UPDATE: BMW has clarified its statement to Green Car Reports in an email. "The final decision as to whether or not the BMW X5 diesel variant will come to the U.S. market has not been made. BMW of North America continues to monitor customer preferences and is prepared to adjust the product portfolio accordingly."

Please continue the X5d! I'm going to need a replacement soon and I want to enjoy my next x5d like I have my current x5d.

BimmerMat135 · 09-12-2018, 08:51 PM

That is time to keep complaining! PHEV and diesel are for different type of customers. One is great in the city the other is the highway king.

rexus300 · 09-12-2018, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdott

31mpg? isn't it rated at 27 hwy?

I know before when the price diesel premium was more than $1500, you'd have to drive like 100k+ miles before you started to realize any savings. Haven't done the calculation on any recent models so perhaps it's less now.

Its rated at 24/31 mpg actually.

///M TOWN · 09-12-2018, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Die ///M Rakete

I wish Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft was a person so I could find him and kick him square in the nuts

VW has little to do with the change, but now has to get involved strictly due to their dishonesty alone.

drowningman · 09-13-2018, 12:31 AM

I love my X5d especially so with the Servotronic hydraulic steering and DHP which are both dead or dying as well. Am still really hoping the G05 will be available with a diesel too. I am also on my second i3 so I understand that electrification is the future and the announcement of the X5 45e iPerformance has piqued my interest especially knowing that electric torque can replace diesel torque.

Will still miss that I6 diesel clatter.

JorgenM · 09-13-2018, 01:41 AM

Very good news, and petrol cars will follow in just a few years too

The time of slow and noisy cars is coming to an end.

RichM50d · 09-13-2018, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanevery

Tesla Model 3 Outsold All BMW Passenger Cars In US:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-...assenger-cars/

So what does that make a BMW?

I call bullshit on those figures. Especially as the Tesla figures are estimated, and the BMW numbers are actual figures. In fact, on their links, the other Tesla figures are also estimated. Are those guys paid by Tesla, by any chance?

How many cars did Tesla build, sell and register to customers in August? I’d bet it’s nowhere near the figures they’re claiming.

BigT · 09-13-2018, 02:38 AM

Funny, here in Switzerland and most likely in Germany, they are lately pushing the Diesel with one page advertisings as the solution for the CO2-problem

It's because there is a dramatic decrease of sales since the scandal. People here just do not longer believe the statet specs, regardless of brand or type.
The majority is eagerly waiting for PEV and PHEV according to the polls and that is a good thing.

There are several EU countries up to forbid Gasoline and Diesel in the next decade. It's over.

dzvero · 09-13-2018, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

First they killed almost all MT, then they want to kill wagon and now diesel they really want me to look somewhere else it seem.

Everything but UFO is cancelled

SteveinArizona · 09-13-2018, 09:46 AM

As the owner of a BMW phev I do like it. However, BMW needs to recognize that if it wants to retain the title of the "ultimate driving machine" it has to offer phevs that are performance oriented and not just in the Ms.

For example, if they offered the 250 HP ICE with the 111 HP electric motor and called it a 540e I would have gladly purchased it instead and paid more for it. And if they were nice enough to offer the 6 cylinder ICE with the 111 HP electric motor I would gladly have paid even more.

But if BMW wants to keep its phevs competing only with mainline automakers, it is degrading the marque.

Come on BMW. In the words of Tim the toolman Taylor: "More power".

09-12-2018, 06:50 PM	#52
mckman Private First Class 168 Rep 147 Posts Drives: 2021 F87 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0)	Thought I would be sorry to see BMW diesels go, but not so sure anymore. I had an F31 328d for three years. Fuel economy on the highway was about 38MPG. Good, but not sure it was worth the loss of performance, compared to the gas I4. I know BMW has passed all of the emission tests, but I always had a large amount of black soot on my rear window. Always made me wonder how clean they really are.... Just picked up a manual 340i xdrive to replace the F31 and couldn't be happier. The B58 is an amazing motor. 30MPG on the highway and loads of smooth power. Diesel works well for trucks, but not sure they make sense for the typical car purchaser unless you have a seriously long daily commute.
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09-12-2018, 08:51 PM	#58
BimmerMat135 Major 726 Rep 1,459 Posts Drives: E82M/S213 E450 A/T Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Montréal Canada iTrader: (0)	That is time to keep complaining! PHEV and diesel are for different type of customers. One is great in the city the other is the highway king.
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09-13-2018, 12:31 AM	#61
drowningman Enlisted Member 21 Rep 48 Posts Drives: '11 1M '19 i3s '19 F60 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Phoenix iTrader: (0)	I love my X5d especially so with the Servotronic hydraulic steering and DHP which are both dead or dying as well. Am still really hoping the G05 will be available with a diesel too. I am also on my second i3 so I understand that electrification is the future and the announcement of the X5 45e iPerformance has piqued my interest especially knowing that electric torque can replace diesel torque. Will still miss that I6 diesel clatter.
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09-13-2018, 01:41 AM	#62
JorgenM Private First Class 120 Rep 162 Posts Drives: Jag i-Pace and BMW i3 Join Date: May 2016 Location: NORTH iTrader: (0)	Very good news, and petrol cars will follow in just a few years too The time of slow and noisy cars is coming to an end.
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09-13-2018, 02:38 AM	#64
BigT Private First Class 117 Rep 199 Posts Drives: I12 i8 Coupe / I01 i3 120Ah Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Zurich iTrader: (0)	Funny, here in Switzerland and most likely in Germany, they are lately pushing the Diesel with one page advertisings as the solution for the CO2-problem It's because there is a dramatic decrease of sales since the scandal. People here just do not longer believe the statet specs, regardless of brand or type. The majority is eagerly waiting for PEV and PHEV according to the polls and that is a good thing. There are several EU countries up to forbid Gasoline and Diesel in the next decade. It's over.
	Appreciate 1 ///M TOWN33145.00 Quote

09-13-2018, 09:46 AM	#66
SteveinArizona Brigadier General 3009 Rep 4,210 Posts Drives: BMW 530e Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Greater Phoenix iTrader: (0)	As the owner of a BMW phev I do like it. However, BMW needs to recognize that if it wants to retain the title of the "ultimate driving machine" it has to offer phevs that are performance oriented and not just in the Ms. For example, if they offered the 250 HP ICE with the 111 HP electric motor and called it a 540e I would have gladly purchased it instead and paid more for it. And if they were nice enough to offer the 6 cylinder ICE with the 111 HP electric motor I would gladly have paid even more. But if BMW wants to keep its phevs competing only with mainline automakers, it is degrading the marque. Come on BMW. In the words of Tim the toolman Taylor: "More power".
	Appreciate 0 Quote