[wdb]

2009-2016 Mercedes E350 wagon (S212). Preferably 2013 or newer to get the updated engine.

[Fenerbahce]

Can't say enough good things about our Accord. Plenty roomy and very fun to drive as long as long as you pick the manual transmission, which is probably far more rare and unique than a Macan. I haven't driven the 2.0t with manual, but our 1.5t Sport is fun to wind out and feels very light on its feet at 3154 lbs. I feel like it's the best kept secret in the automotive world especially at that price point and vehicle size (again assuming manual).

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by chassis

Yes, what is the standard retail price of an oil change at a Ferrari dealer?

2nd kid...

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by chassis

Yes, what is the standard retail price of an oil change at a Ferrari dealer?

not sure on the FF but my annual service on the 458 which includes fluid changes, brake flush, and a general looking over the car is about 1000 at an indy shop.

[syd34]

I completely understand about wanting to avoid a minivan. We avoided that too.

But I have to say that a mid-sized two or three row SUV is really the most practical option for your scenario. In your price range, a new or slightly used VW Atlas or used Acura MDX would be great options.

The Atlas is the most child-friendly SUV with its ability to access the 3rd row without removing any front-facing child seats. No, it is not fun to drive but that is not really the intention of this vehicle.

The MDX is definitely a relatively fun vehicle given its SH-AWD but still gives you the practicality that a family will appreciate.

If the SUVs are a hard pass, then perhaps a few years old Audi A7 Sportback will be a good option. The A7 has about 25 cu ft. of trunk space which is comparable to an X3. It is also wide enough I believe to hold 3 car seats.

I don't even understand how a Macan would work with 3 kids. The trunk is about the same size as a 4er GC in terms of cargo volume.

[E91WAG3N]

If only an FF would work, I think the baby will fit in the middle! I could sell my E91s and put my kid hauler budget towards it and be in the ballpark.

I've put about 100 miles on my mom's X3 in the past week or so and there's nothing I like about driving it. The only features I like are the power lift gate, digital cluster, and interior color (saddle). It feels big, heavy, and numb. From a cargo standpoint it doesn't haul much more than an E91 can when both vehicles have their rear seats down. I'm spoiled by working at a BMW dealership during the height of the golden age of the early 2000's.



At this point the E-Class Wagon seems to check the most boxes for us. I'm not pulling the trigger on any big ticket items until the virus situation subsides so next Spring/Summer is the target most likely, if not longer. At that point my kids will 6, almost 4, and 1 so two of the slim seats plus a detachable rear facing baby seat all are narrow and will fit. The cargo space is significantly larger than an E91 so we'll be good there. A Macan seems like a better choice in terms of driving dynamics but on paper it looks too tight.

What the vehicle will be used for seems to be a big question by many folks that have posted in this thread. It'll mostly be used for around town and road trips to Southern California to visit my parents and friends. We day trip to visit Lake Mead, Mount Charleston, and Southern Utah quite a bit and we're light packers. For what it's worth, I traveled to Japan and Guam with just a backpack a couple years ago. The E91 has been more than adequate for various stages of baby and toddler for our 2 oldest kids for all these activities. We've been using grocery and big box store delivery services and won't be returning to regularly visit stores except Costco which is under 10 minutes away. Those trips I usually go alone anyways or we can *gasp* take two cars. We live in Seven Hills which has tons of walking trails and parks within a very reasonable walking distance. We're fortunate enough to not have to travel to get the kids outdoors regularly!

Originally Posted by jstein55

You're gonna get a Macan then, the W/S212 E-Class while it isn't a dog, will not be engaging. The E350's are tried and true Mercedes, meaning comfortable and quiet cruisers, but not engaging or relatively "fun," and coming from an E-chassis BMW won't help your case. While it does benefit from sedan handling and a lower center of gravity than an SUV, Mercedes didn't really design that car to be fun unless you go full on AMG. Macan is like a hot hatch on stilts and feels very much engaging, however I do think you should bring three carseats to the dealer before purchasing and try it out. I still think maybe a CPO Cayenne would be much better in your situation.

Originally Posted by wdb

2009-2016 Mercedes E350 wagon (S212). Preferably 2013 or newer to get the updated engine.

I think the play is an S212. I like the (unpopular looks) of the 2014-2016, hopefully I can still pick one up as a CPO next year.

Originally Posted by 86Zed

Although you can go 3-wide with the narrower seats do you really think the trunk space (and roof box) are enough for a picnic or road trip? I suppose there are ways around that

To those disparaging the lower profile seats, know that they meet safety standards and are often laden with a cost, weight and portability trade-off. Cars are now massive, bottom line is we all lose in a crash situation with an F150. My kiddo is in a modern car seat in either a 3-series wagon or GTI and accident avoidance is always the primary safety precaution.

THIS x 100!

Originally Posted by syd34

If the SUVs are a hard pass, then perhaps a few years old Audi A7 Sportback will be a good option. The A7 has about 25 cu ft. of trunk space which is comparable to an X3. It is also wide enough I believe to hold 3 car seats.

I don't even understand how a Macan would work with 3 kids. The trunk is about the same size as a 4er GC in terms of cargo volume.

Agreed, I don't think a Macan is realistic, but I'll Turo/test drive one to find out. My mom had a 435 CG before her X3 and there's no way that would work.

A7 is an option I haven't considered, appreciate that idea! I've always viewed VAG products as a distant second to BMW/Merc/Porsche but that's based on my experience working at those stores 15-20 years ago. We got the Jetta a few years back simply because my wife didn't want all the iDrive/tech nonsense.

[Socal_R8]

With three kids you're going to need a 3 row 7 passenger (kids have friends)

We've had great luck with our 2016 Explorer kid hauler and the 2020 version is even better looking..... prices range from like $38k-65$ depending on what version you get... or probably find a cpo for great price these days

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

With three kids you're going to need a 3 row 7 passenger (kids have friends)

We've had great luck with our 2016 Explorer kid hauler and the 2020 version is even better looking..... prices range from like $38k-65$ depending on what version you get... or probably find a cpo for great price these days

Appreciate the suggestion but the old adage of “don’t build your house for the holidays” applies here. Hard pass.

S212 Mercedes has a third row for friend hauling if that becomes necessary as they get older.

[bkfastwagon]

There are some good deals on CPO 2017+ S213 MB E wagons (E400 and E450). That's the path we are considering once X3 lease is up. 2020 might be the last year of E wagons (they are bringing All-terrain version instead). I like the design of S213 vs S212 and I assume they are slightly larger too.

[brk_05]

I commend the OP for sticking with a car even with 3 kids.

You can definitely fit 3 seats across in quite a few cars with the right seats. I feel like everyone thinks giant thick car seat = safety. I'm a huge fan of the Diono car seats because of their slim profile. They are still highly rated well built seat. They are solid steel and weigh as much as a house. I think they are way better than the giant ones you see from some of the other major brands.

There seems to be 75% of the responses are automatically "3rd row SUV." Plenty of families had 3 or even 4 kids in the past before 3rd row SUVs were everywhere. It can be done.

Now granted, no one said it will be fun getting a kid in and out of the middle seat. Just set some funds aside for a chiropractor.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by bkfastwagon

There are some good deals on CPO 2017+ S213 MB E wagons (E400 and E450). That's the path we are considering once X3 lease is up. 2020 might be the last year of E wagons (they are bringing All-terrain version instead). I like the design of S213 vs S212 and I assume they are slightly larger too.

It's a big shame that MB will only offer up 'allroad' versions of their estate cars. It seems odd that they'd tinker with the E wagon given how loyal and wealthy the new car buyers are in that segment, even with the low volume of units. Both the S212 and S213 are nice, visually I prefer the rear end of the older chassis but that's not a deal breaker. S212 seems tried and true at this point as well, which is a plus. I'll end up giving both a try along with the Macan to see what works. Tyler Hoover from Hoovies garage picked one up and I'm fairly certain he said he was able to get his S213 without air suspension, I need to read up to see if that spec was an option on the previous gen as well. That would be a nice headache to avoid 5-10 years down the road.

Originally Posted by brk_05

I commend the OP for sticking with a car even with 3 kids.

You can definitely fit 3 seats across in quite a few cars with the right seats. I feel like everyone thinks giant thick car seat = safety. I'm a huge fan of the Diono car seats because of their slim profile. They are still highly rated well built seat. They are solid steel and weigh as much as a house. I think they are way better than the giant ones you see from some of the other major brands.

There seems to be 75% of the responses are automatically "3rd row SUV." Plenty of families had 3 or even 4 kids in the past before 3rd row SUVs were everywhere. It can be done.

Now granted, no one said it will be fun getting a kid in and out of the middle seat. Just set some funds aside for a chiropractor.

Completely agreed! The responses here don't really surprise me since they proportionately reflect what's out on the roads today. Bigger does not always mean safer both in the context of a vehicle and car seat. Engineering is key.

In terms of ingress and egress, my oldest self buckles and our 2 year old is making progress in that area so hopefully we don't end up at the chiropractor!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by brk_05

I commend the OP for sticking with a car even with 3 kids.

You can definitely fit 3 seats across in quite a few cars with the right seats. I feel like everyone thinks giant thick car seat = safety. I'm a huge fan of the Diono car seats because of their slim profile. They are still highly rated well built seat. They are solid steel and weigh as much as a house. I think they are way better than the giant ones you see from some of the other major brands.

THey are fine for older kids but under 2 years old, no way I am putting my kid in that, like no fucking way. There nowhere near enough side support, especially for under a year old.

If you were in Australia, this solves your issue as it's back seat is larger than an E-class, V8, NA ......... goes like stink.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by E91WAG3N

Bigger does not always mean safer both in the context of a vehicle and car seat. Engineering is key.

All things being equal, mass is everything for cars. OK a modern compact will out perform an 80's K car but in 2020, there's basically a straight line between size and crash survivability.

[Mardio]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

I bought the lowest priced CPO, you can probably still find it on cars.com, was listed for $110k and got them down to $100k. That is effectively ~$93k when factoring the warranty cost, or $87k if you look at it as two years of warranty cost. It has 48k miles on it which is a lot for a Ferrari so they were willing to deal, but as long as it goes through CPO and has warranty I'm ok with the miles. Pretty sure I can drive it for a couple years and get back what I paid or close to it. Car looks to be in amazing condition for the miles. Fortunately they are one of the dealers that includes the 2-year warranty in their listed pricing. The second lowest CPO car is $116k and is on consignment, options list not nearly as extensive but lower mileage. That dealer wants $7k extra for the warranty.

Consignment cars are usually easier to get the price down than a dealer-owned car. I suspect most cars listed can be had for ~10% below asking price but some dealers are pretty firm. I would generally not buy from most third-party dealers. Just getting a full PPI done costs ~$1k including the compression check and is required by Ferrari if you want the privelege of spending $6500/year on the warranty. When you factor in the 2 years for the price of 1 from a dealer plus knowing it passed all the CPO standards, it just makes more sense to buy from a dealer, especially if it's your first Ferrari (which it is for me).



Annual service at a dealer is $1-2k, depends what needs to be done. Indy shop should generally be around $1k. Expensive, but you shouldn't be buying a $400k car if you can't afford that because when a big repair comes along you're gonna have a bad time. The Ferrari warranty doesn't cover everything, it is basically a powertrain warranty but at least that covers the big ticket items. On an FF that is generally the PTU and transmission which can be anywhere from $12-40k.

The ceramic brakes are also crazy expensive, like $40k/set from a dealer. The car I bought had the front discs replaced 3k miles ago so that's a major bullet to dodge. Waiting on the report for the rears from the CPO check but they have to pass minimum standards anyway so I can't foresee them needing replacement in the next few years in all likelihood. I usually keep my cars 1-2 years before moving on. If I can drive a $400k V12 Ferrari for less than ~$20-30k overall cost for 2 years, I'd consider that an absolute bargain.

Word of advice for anyone considering an FF - CHECK THE INSURANCE COST. GEICO is insuring this car for $150/month. I couldn't find any other insurance company that would do it for less than $600/month. After checking with USAA, State Farm, and a few specialty companies like Hagerty/Pure/Chubb/Grundy i just gave up and figured $150/month is as cheap as it will get.



Agreed, love the E63S wagon, definitely a contender. A V12 Ferrari is still a V12 Ferrari though. Figured I had to do it at least once...

Wow 40k for brakes?! I realize that for these buyers that's probably a drop in the bucket, but for the common man that's a new Jeep Grand Cherokee loaded. 🤣🤣

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Mardio

Wow 40k for brakes?! I realize that for these buyers that's probably a drop in the bucket, but for the common man that's a new Jeep Grand Cherokee loaded. ����

Carbon ceramic brakes are always crazy expensive. A set is around $25-30k on a Porsche too. Ferrari just likes to add some Ferrari tax. They might also be a little larger than the Porsche ones. I'm not sure if there's alternate options like Surface Transforms or not. I've seen estimates anywhere from $25-50k on Fchat.

[BlueM3Wagon]

Find a R 63 We stopped having kids at twins so I dont need to give up the e91. Our main vehicle is a Durango R/T, love the third row but its been a nightmare with issues. Considered trading up to the SRT, but I'm sure the issues with follow the brand. We're in the hunt for a third row not a van. Drove a 4Runner but the third row is super small. Will consider the Ford as someone posted above, haven't looked into it. Just very limited options unfortunately.

[stein_325i]

I would avoid any new Explorer, quality issues galore. The Palisade/Telluride twins seem to be the best mid-sized three rows SUV's to get at the moment and if you need a three row SUV where the third row is only used in a pinch Mazda CX-9 is an SUV that surprisingly drives well.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by BlueM3Wagon

Find a R 63 We stopped having kids at twins so I dont need to give up the e91. Our main vehicle is a Durango R/T, love the third row but its been a nightmare with issues. Considered trading up to the SRT, but I'm sure the issues with follow the brand. We're in the hunt for a third row not a van. Drove a 4Runner but the third row is super small. Will consider the Ford as someone posted above, haven't looked into it. Just very limited options unfortunately.

I love my 6MT E91, it’s not going anywhere. The 2nd E91 we’ll keep around or move on if it stops getting used. E63 is def an option but it loses the 3rd row and gains powwwwwwer! It’s a tough niche to find a vehicle for sure, but there are options out there that aren’t 5,000lb tanks with poor build quality and shitty driving dynamics.

Edit: read that as wagon, not the R63 van thing! Those are pretty neat.

[wdb]

Mercedes will replace the 'pedestrian' wagons with cladded Outback wannabes. The AMG wagon will still be a wagon.

[Yugo]

Honda Pilot

[ItsGary]

Anything wrong with a Toyota Highlander? You get a decent roomy SUV. Plus Toyota reliability is great. Plus the Hybrids have a decent resale value. At least in Canada. 7 seats with the option to get 8 seats.

[uncle ben]

We have a newborn and find our e70 x5 can be cramped with all the stuff you need to carry with a kid. I can’t imagine hauling three kidss around in it. If a three row suv like an x7 or minivan won’t work, might I suggest a quad cab pickup truck. The back seat on most 4 door trucks is huge. Three kids would fit easy, plus you have the convenience of having a truck to do things like haul toys, or trips to home depo, or do other truck things. Get a topper for the truck box and have 6 feet of dry secure storage. Fuel economy is very decent on modern trucks, and if the budget is on the low side, used trucks can be had for very reasonable prices.