[Robert]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Fellow Enthusiasts,

We are now at the end of an era of a BMW ///M that we once loved. BMW and ///M, specifically has gone astray and are lost. Our once cherished sporty coupes, sedans and GTs with the characteristic powerful normally aspirated engines with killer performance high in the RPM band is lost.

Now we have 5300 pound trucks with asmatic redline performance is the new BMW and ///M. No 5300 pound truck is sporty and weight cannot be overcompensated by power but despite this known rule of performance, BMW has chosen to use the great ///M engineers on stupid trucks.

BMW and ///M have chose the path of Audi and AMG. Powerful and Heavy. Powerful good but Heavy necessarily means poor handling.

Look at the torque curve of the new engine. Flat torque curve great. But the stupid thing has a 6800 rpm redline and has an asmtha attack at 5700 rpm. Everything that we loved about BMW ///M engines is lost.

Don't believe the marketing hype. Weighs too much to handle well, fuel economy is horrible and the performance is mediocre. It satisfies no one.

I don't hold a lot of hope for the F10 M5 or the F12 M6. My current M6 is probably the last BMW that I will buy for awhile. If the 5 series PAV didn't reinforce that BMW has lost its way, the X5M and X6M demonstrates that BMW has completely lost its way in my opinion.

BMW has chosen to chase new markets and is going to forget its faithful.

Agreed, but you supported it when you purchased a M6. BMW didn't lose its way it's just off a beaten path. I was on the waitlist for the M3 but decided against it after I found out how much it has grown. I am not quite happy with the weight of my 135i either, wished I have test drove it before purchase. I would have gotten a Cayman or some other light weight vehicle.

[xDrive50i]

Originally Posted by dasano18

I dont understand why people choose to be ignorant and say these cars suck when no one even knows how they really drive. I agree with the fact that they might be chasing a new market but you can call something unsuccessful simply because its unlikely to succeed. Wait till these cars are put to a real test then state your opinion, and even then its just your opinion. If the numbers show that people like these cars and sold a lot of them, then they succeeded.

+1!!!

[footie]

Originally Posted by Robert

Agreed, but you supported it when you purchased a M6. BMW didn't lose its way it's just off a beaten path. I was on the waitlist for the M3 but decided against it after I found out how much it has grown. I am not quite happy with the weight of my 135i either, wished I have test drove it before purchase. I would have gotten a Cayman or some other light weight vehicle.

It's a misconception as to how much something weighs to how it drives (within reason). It is solely how the design team/developers want the car to behave is what you are feeling, with a true sportscar like the Elise feel very darty because they are appealing to a more select group of individuals and the more popular the car will be (i.e. the more diverse the group of drivers) the more safe and duller the steering inputs will be.

The best example I can think of is an F1 car, they weigh in at about 650kgs but what downforce this more than doubles when traveling above 120mph, so which does it feel like is it a 650kgs car or a 1300kgs car?

I am not saying that the X5/6M won't feel very heavy compared to a normal car because they will but when you are talking about normal cars I don't think the weight issue really comes into it as much as some people believe.

[xDrive50i]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Fellow Enthusiasts,

We are now at the end of an era of a BMW ///M that we once loved. BMW and ///M, specifically has gone astray and are lost. Our once cherished sporty coupes, sedans and GTs with the characteristic powerful normally aspirated engines with killer performance high in the RPM band is lost.

Now we have 5300 pound trucks with asmatic redline performance is the new BMW and ///M. No 5300 pound truck is sporty and weight cannot be overcompensated by power but despite this known rule of performance, BMW has chosen to use the great ///M engineers on stupid trucks.

BMW and ///M have chose the path of Audi and AMG. Powerful and Heavy. Powerful good but Heavy necessarily means poor handling.

Look at the torque curve of the new engine. Flat torque curve great. But the stupid thing has a 6800 rpm redline and has an asmtha attack at 5700 rpm. Everything that we loved about BMW ///M engines is lost.

Don't believe the marketing hype. Weighs too much to handle well, fuel economy is horrible and the performance is mediocre. It satisfies no one.

I don't hold a lot of hope for the F10 M5 or the F12 M6. My current M6 is probably the last BMW that I will buy for awhile. If the 5 series PAV didn't reinforce that BMW has lost its way, the X5M and X6M demonstrates that BMW has completely lost its way in my opinion.

BMW has chosen to chase new markets and is going to forget its faithful.

HAHAHA, this cracks me up!

Oh NO! How dare they make a SUV/SAC that may appeal to others?

It was obviously not approved by you

I guess they should ONLY be making cars that you like?

And speak for yourself! I for one am looking forward to the X5M/X6M... I always wanted one and now that they created one, I'm happy... and so are a LOT of other folks. But according to you, that doesn't count since we are not faithful?!?

But then again, if you don't like the BMW ///Ms anymore because they decided to develop an X5M/X6M, you can always buy something else

[footie]

I think if BMW continue to build cars that appeal to the likes of T Bone then chances are he will still be buying them, even though they are building big mothers like the X5/6M. TB is just pissed off that M-Division has sold out in some way to he idealistic beliefs, what with the possible introduction of FI engines and now M-trucks.

[Hula-Hula]

Why not just get old ones and be done with it
________
Fucktube.ocm
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Kitchen Measures
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WELLBUTRIN LAWYER

[Guildenstern]

Originally Posted by footie

The best example I can think of is an F1 car, they weigh in at about 650kgs but what downforce this more than doubles when traveling above 120mph, so which does it feel like is it a 650kgs car or a 1300kgs car?

It feels like a 650Kg car; downforce doesn't change your inertial mass.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Sam12345

Everyone who wants to go cry, go buy an e30 m3, now thats "BMW M Heritage"

Good point. And actually, I plan on doing just that. The M cars haven't disappeared or anything, there's lots out there for sale and restoration.. with an E30 M3 being top of my list! Meanwhile people can buy the X6/X5M all they want, it won't change my opinion of what I think ///M means.

[ideliver]

they can build the car...just don't call it "M"....the X5 4.8si was well received for what it was...let the marketing guys earn some of their money and find a new line for these types of cars..

[footie]

Originally Posted by Guildenstern

It feels like a 650Kg car; downforce doesn't change your inertial mass.

Wouldn't completely agree with that opinion. Prior to the downforce effect the car will feel skittish were as downforce makes it feel planted. Now I can't speak for F1 but I have driven cars which generate huge amounts of downforce and that is my feeling on the matter.

[footie]

Originally Posted by ideliver

they can build the car...just don't call it "M"....the X5 4.8si was well received for what it was...let the marketing guys earn some of their money and find a new line for these types of cars..

If they called it anything other than an M it would command approximately 20% less which could amount to £15K if priced similar to the Cayenne Turbo S. Marketing people are never slow to see the opportunity to make easy money and one should never underestimate the value of one very important letter.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by Philritter21

High strung, high revving engines might be nostalgic, but there is a reason they have been replaced. Its called progress. Something must be right about the new engines, because they are vastly more powerful, and quite often, more efficient.

No, it's due to emissions. You just can't get a high-revving NA motor to keep up with the ever tightening emission standards these days. BMW was forced to go the turbo route.

[in5ane_3]

Originally Posted by T Bone

BMW is the new GM. Enjoy the mediocrity.

Try to process some of the arguments above.

Please elaborate.

[footie]

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

No, it's due to emissions. You just can't get a high-revving NA motor to keep up with the ever tightening emission standards these days. BMW was forced to go the turbo route.

Someone better let Porsche know this because they must not have read the memo.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by in5ane_3

Please elaborate.

BMW is reducing R&D and trying to get into the once profitable truck market. They are directly taking money away from car development to invest in trucks.

GM spent next to nothing on key cars like the Cavalier for a couple of generations while the Corolla and Civic continued to evolve. They focused on SUVs.

BMW is doing exactly the same time. Placing precious R&D dollars and smart engineers on trucks.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by footie

It's a misconception as to how much something weighs to how it drives (within reason). It is solely how the design team/developers want the car to behave is what you are feeling, with a true sportscar like the Elise feel very darty because they are appealing to a more select group of individuals and the more popular the car will be (i.e. the more diverse the group of drivers) the more safe and duller the steering inputs will be.

The best example I can think of is an F1 car, they weigh in at about 650kgs but what downforce this more than doubles when traveling above 120mph, so which does it feel like is it a 650kgs car or a 1300kgs car?

I am not saying that the X5/6M won't feel very heavy compared to a normal car because they will but when you are talking about normal cars I don't think the weight issue really comes into it as much as some people believe.

Let me start off by saying M3 is a great car and each driver has his/her preference. I like the F1 analogy and I am sure we can agree F1 is the pinnacle of automobile research and development. Down force is required at highspeed for stability and light weight is preferred for agility at cornering. My point is if a car starts off at 1600-2000kg there's no way to make it lighter unless wings is added for lift, which won't kick in until high speed and creates big problem. Therefore, it is always better to start off with a light weight vehicle if the preference is performance.

[EmPower]

PLEASE DO NOT GO ON ABOUT THE CSLs.... they were great BUT WERE HIGHLY TRACK FOCUSSED. From the wheels to tires to body panels.. they had f*** slicks for f***s sake. There are a lot of people who would have only ONE luxury/ performance car and sometimes it doubles as a work horse. What use is a car that you can use like 100 days a year?

Pleae note that in no way am I condoning ginormous SUVs that go like stink, but there are a lot of people who do like abominations like these.... and I am sure a lot of market research was done before they went down this path. And if I was you, I would look at this another way... the US is no longer the grand daddy of consumerism, so like any sensible business, BMW too is moving where it will eventually see some profit in this shithole of an economy, and who knows, maybe once the shit has finally stopped hitting the fan, they may try to bring back the CSLs in limited #s... one can always hope.

Also, to all you xenophobes here, the world is changing...dont like it, get off of it, but for the love of god, stop whineging.... jeez

[GuyOh]

Originally Posted by Sam12345

oh god BMW is putting turbos in M cars!

omfg M badge on a truck!

"BMW HERITAGE IS GONE"




you guys are such drama queens, holy shit.

It is a car company, THEY WANT TO MAKE MONEY. IT IS A BUSINESS.

Everyone is complaining how they cut the CSL, well if more people bought it then maybe it wouldnt be cut.

How many of you would have bought the new m3 csl if it was made? I am sorry but for around 100g(most likely the cost if they made the new CSL), there are MUCH better cars to buy then a modified 3 series



BMW heritage is still there, M is about top of technology and perfomance...translating to turbo engines with huge amounts of power and better gas economy.


Everyone who wants to go cry, go buy an e30 m3, now thats "BMW M Heritage"



flame suit on

+11111111

[135Eye]

Originally Posted by T Bone

BMW is reducing R&D and trying to get into the once profitable truck market. They are directly taking money away from car development to invest in trucks.

GM spent next to nothing on key cars like the Cavalier for a couple of generations while the Corolla and Civic continued to evolve. They focused on SUVs.

BMW is doing exactly the same time. Placing precious R&D dollars and smart engineers on trucks.

That is completly untrue. They did not take any money away from development of their road cars. Please present your figures. If you only knew the development cost to the F10 5-series your eyes would pop out.

[BillLee]

[in5ane_3]

Originally Posted by T Bone

BMW is reducing R&D and trying to get into the once profitable truck market. They are directly taking money away from car development to invest in trucks.

GM spent next to nothing on key cars like the Cavalier for a couple of generations while the Corolla and Civic continued to evolve. They focused on SUVs.

BMW is doing exactly the same time. Placing precious R&D dollars and smart engineers on trucks.

I don't know where you're getting the figures from that the financing for their previous M division was cut for the development of the M trucks.

BMW is far from becoming like GM, they do not have multiple car companies with the same cars re badged at different price tags.

I'm just curious to see where you heard, or know, that they have cut spending on their road cars and instead decided to concentrate on their trucks. What they're doing is healthy and needed. Mercedes has their AMG line of SUV's as well as Porsche has it's performance oriented Cayenne.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by 135Eye

That is completly untrue. They did not take any money away from development of their road cars. Please present your figures. If you only knew the development cost to the F10 5-series your eyes would pop out.

Originally Posted by in5ane_3

I don't know where you're getting the figures from that the financing for their previous M division was cut for the development of the M trucks.

BMW is far from becoming like GM, they do not have multiple car companies with the same cars re badged at different price tags.

I'm just curious to see where you heard, or know, that they have cut spending on their road cars and instead decided to concentrate on their trucks. What they're doing is healthy and needed. Mercedes has their AMG line of SUV's as well as Porsche has it's performance oriented Cayenne.

Oh, I dunno, the cancellation of the CS and a new Z4M come to the top of my mind.... It is also rumored they are dumping specific engines for M cars.....we are just going to get tuned regular BMW engines....

Projects that made the cut.... X5M, X6M and the 5 Series PAV.