[UAxDEATH(NYC)]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I would have asked you the same question though probably a little better. I sell homes, so one of the 1st things I do when I meet a new potential buyer is talk about their financing situation BEFORE I show them a house. I'm not interested in wasting my time or yours. Its business, you were looking at a very expensive car and wanted to test drive it. Not rocket science.

Ok i have a question for ya, why do you think that your time is more important than mine - or anybody else?? Do you know how this annoying that every single salesmen asking you "are you have money to buy a house, car, boat...etc etc.". I mean what kind of attitude is that ? Why would i (or anybody else) go to see a house, if i cant buy it??? Entire existence of salesmen is for helping customers to make a decision- well guess what sometimes they decide to don't buy it. As i said before, if we all knew those details - we'd be doing on-line buying.

I run my own business, we doing high rise buildings in Manhattan, we do glazing, so I'll tell only from my own experience, everyday i receiving emails, with architectural drawings, 80% of them is never go to anywhere, but i still bid them, i still giving the people (owners, architects, developers, GCs and etc) price. Why I'm "wasting my time and time of customer" - YOU NEVER KNOW!!! Who has money who doesn't, they financial history - its a big BS, some people owned before billions of dollars worth buildings - and now cant afford a building for 2-3mln. And if I, or any of my guys - would ask the customer "DO YOU HAVE MONEY TO BUILD THIS??" - NEXT DAY I'd be out of my business.

[BlackSapphireZ]

car business is a funny place...shit runs very differently from any other businesses

and OP being from NZ would be just little different than what it is in US or Europe.

I've sold cars, I've told my customers when my day offs were so they know when I WON'T be there.

YOU NEVER ASK "ARE YOU GONNA BUY?" or "DO YOU HAVE MONEY TO BUY?" never pre-judge.

[vacwm]

my 2 cents... i would usually call ahead of time and see if the sales rep i work with is available and try and schedule something... they get paid on commission and i respect that. unless i dont like the rep, then i would look for other options.
i see your frustration, but i totally understand where the sales guy is coming from.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I learned a loooooooong time ago that someone's appearance means squat when it comes to their buying power.

I will say your approach is a hell of a lot more tactful though. Discussing finances is a LOT different than just blurting out "Can you even afford this?" Simply asking someone their price range is a good way to do it, it's what I did. Maybe I'm too trusting but I always took people at their work on that. If when it was time to pay they couldn't well, shit happens. More often than not though, it worked out just fine.

yup never judge a book by its cover, never. Its easy to fall into that though.

Originally Posted by UAxDEATH(NYC)

Ok i have a question for ya, why do you think that your time is more important than mine - or anybody else?? Do you know how this annoying that every single salesmen asking you "are you have money to buy a house, car, boat...etc etc.". I mean what kind of attitude is that ? Why would i (or anybody else) go to see a house, if i cant buy it??? Entire existence of salesmen is for helping customers to make a decision- well guess what sometimes they decide to don't buy it. As i said before, if we all knew those details - we'd be doing on-line buying.

I run my own business, we doing high rise buildings in Manhattan, we do glazing, so I'll tell only from my own experience, everyday i receiving emails, with architectural drawings, 80% of them is never go to anywhere, but i still bid them, i still giving the people (owners, architects, developers, GCs and etc) price. Why I'm "wasting my time and time of customer" - YOU NEVER KNOW!!! Who has money who doesn't, they financial history - its a big BS, some people owned before billions of dollars worth buildings - and now cant afford a building for 2-3mln. And if I, or any of my guys - would ask the customer "DO YOU HAVE MONEY TO BUILD THIS??" - NEXT DAY I'd be out of my business.

I didnt say my time is more important than yours, I dont know you. When it comes to my business I dont rely on my clients knowing what they can purchase or what they can sell their homes for. 90% of the time they are wrong, way too may factors that they dont consider. I'm talking about homes not cars, different level of finances. I make sure up front you know what you can do and what you cant, that way you dont waste YOUR TIME AND MINE.

make sense now?

[Bobble]

Sounds like a big mis-communication on both the OP and the salesman part. Iunderstand the OP's poistion and also the salesman but if his choice of words was that well it is a bit rude.
I would probably give up on this dealer and go else where. I've been with relatives in Germany when they have bought a car and the experience is different than the US as it's almost always an order placed.

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Why is auto sales the only retail profession where the sales people think their time is more valuable than the customer's? Seriously, I can't think of any other indusrty where the consumer thinks they have to call ahead. At the end of the day the salesperson is there to vend a product, plain and simple. I'm NOT going arrange my day to suit them for the priveledge of spending my money.

I've been in commisioned retail before and I've NEVER asked a customer to call ahead. I also never had an issue spending time with a customer who wasn't ready to buy. And the reason? It's called cultivating the relationship. By the time the customer is ready to buy not only will they come seek you out, and wait if you're tied up, but they'll refer everyone they know to you. It ends up benefitting the salesmen and the customer.

Some of you people have a lot to learn about customer service. Don't let the dealers brain wash you into thinking you owe them anything. They need you, not the other way around.

Very well said. It's not an excuse to be egregiously rude or disrespectful, but I consider my time to be far more valuable than anyone else's and shouldn't be expected to rearrange my schedule to meet the needs of someone else who hasn't earned my business.

[Eazy-e]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Why is auto sales the only retail profession where the sales people think their time is more valuable than the customer's? Seriously, I can't think of any other indusrty where the consumer thinks they have to call ahead. At the end of the day the salesperson is there to vend a product, plain and simple. I'm NOT going arrange my day to suit them for the priveledge of spending my money.

I've been in commisioned retail before and I've NEVER asked a customer to call ahead. I also never had an issue spending time with a customer who wasn't ready to buy. And the reason? It's called cultivating the relationship. By the time the customer is ready to buy not only will they come seek you out, and wait if you're tied up, but they'll refer everyone they know to you. It ends up benefitting the salesmen and the customer.

Some of you people have a lot to learn about customer service. Don't let the dealers brain wash you into thinking you owe them anything. They need you, not the other way around.

[UAxDEATH(NYC)]

Originally Posted by Sniz

yup never judge a book by its cover, never. Its easy to fall into that though.



I didnt say my time is more important than yours, I dont know you. When it comes to my business I dont rely on my clients knowing what they can purchase or what they can sell their homes for. 90% of the time they are wrong, way too may factors that they dont consider. I'm talking about homes not cars, different level of finances. I make sure up front you know what you can do and what you cant, that way you dont waste YOUR TIME AND MINE.

make sense now?

I totaly agree with you that 90% dont know what they want, but as i said before isnt that why all businesses have salesmen ?? Arent that`s why they are for ?? To make sure that customer would be helped to make a right decision?? Rude questions like "DO YOU HAVE MONEY" will kill potential buyer. And you`ll be suprised that if you threat custromer well now, 75% of them will comeback in future to you no matter what, even if they didnt have anough money on the first day.

[Ti335]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Why is auto sales the only retail profession where the sales people think their time is more valuable than the customer's? Seriously, I can't think of any other indusrty where the consumer thinks they have to call ahead.

Because selling cars is not like selling hamburgers or shoes. It takes 30 seconds to sell you a Big Mac and maybe 10-15 minutes to sell a pair of shoes. A car salesman, on the other hand, spends hours of his time on each transaction, so losing a sale is a pretty big deal.

Originally Posted by quality_sound

At the end of the day the salesperson is there to vend a product, plain and simple. I'm NOT going arrange my day to suit them for the priveledge of spending my money.

Why don't you try the same attitude with your lawyer or doctor. Walk into their office without making an appointment and demand service right there, on the spot. I doubt that would get you very far. Granted, lawyers and doctors don't sell products - they sell their services - but what's the difference, really?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Make an appointment and order a car. It is how it works.

Car sales personell have other things to do, then just sit around waiting for you to maybe show up. I was in car sales, and in the car industry for 4 years.

A RESPECTFUL buyer, will not just call ahead, but arrange a good time.

For instance, my sales person for my car had a busy schedule, they were also the top sales pesron for a reason, and she (yes it was a lady) jumped through hoops.

Out of respect, we would NEGOTIATE, not just make an appointment depending on when I could meet up and her schedule cause she had other clients too.

Sales people dont just sell cars... they also deliver the car, another lengthy time consuming process. <--- that legnth of time is long cause of the customer, asking 990 questions. The process is actually simple, in which I signed for my car in about 6 minutes and was out the door. But to anyone in the industry you know exactly what I mean when you get one of those customers that is there for half a day.

No im not in the industry anymore, half of the reason is pay, and hours, the other is idiot people you meet along the way.

Last but not least, sales people do have a day off and sometimes half a day, despite their 60+ hour week. Have some respect.

She didnt get it easy either, it took me nearly 7 months to decide on buying my car. I also went in there test driving 135's, and ended up buying a 335 without even test driving it. (thats how ugly the 1 is in comparison LOL ).

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I guess the cars on the lot are just for decoration.

No they are for people willing to sacrifice. My dealer didnt even have any MT 335 so I ordered. They also took off $3 grand for ordering to so that whole "ordering" cost more bit is out the window right there incase anyone wants to come back with that.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by Ti335

Because selling cars is not like selling hamburgers or shoes. It takes 30 seconds to sell you a Big Mac and maybe 10-15 minutes to sell a pair of shoes. A car salesman, on the other hand, spends hours of his time on each transaction, so losing a sale is a pretty big deal.

I've sold audio systems, home and car, that cost more than a fully loaded E93 M3. Don't preach to me about "time is money." Good customer service is good customer service.

Why don't you try the same attitude with your lawyer or doctor. Walk into their office without making an appointment and demand service right there, on the spot. I doubt that would get you very far. Granted, lawyers and doctors don't sell products - they sell their services - but what's the difference, really?

The difference is you get varying levels of quality with different lawyers or doctors. With cars you're buying the same car no matter the dealership. Plus they're setup to take walk-in customers. If not they wouldn't have a showroom would they? Again, retail is retail is retail.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

No they are for people willing to sacrifice. My dealer didnt even have any MT 335 so I ordered. They also took off $3 grand for ordering to so that whole "ordering" cost more bit is out the window right there incase anyone wants to come back with that.

And if said lot car is configured how the customer wants it? Not really a compromise is it? No it's not out the window. How many dealerships discount ordered cars? Exactly. Hell, most charge more.

[chungdae]

You sound like a baby whining that the dealership sold the car you wanted. If you wanted that car so badly you would have left a deposit. It's sales what do you expect? Just because you were there the day before, hell even two hours prior, doesn't mean it's still going to be there when you come back. Welcome to life. You, then, say "I want this, no maybe this, no maybe that" you have to look at it from their prospective. If some kid that walked in THAT many times and did that to 3 different sales associates you would treat him in a reluctant manner as well. Again, welcome to life.

[Bulldog 6]

I think the OP should just order what he wants, that way there is no compromise on 2nd and 3rd choices or guessing when its going to be in stock.

[Matski]

Two points I'd like to make:

1) The phoning ahead thing. I work in retail, selling medium to high-end audio equipment. We have the shop floor and three separate demonstration rooms. We always recommend that people wishing to sit down and have a proper discussion and maybe a demonstration always phone ahead. It just makes sense. I don't see why it would be different in auto sales. People don't seem to mind either, it means we can help them quicker and more efficiently - and what customer doesn't want that.

2) I have to 'give a shout out' to both my local dealers here in the UK. Wollaston BMW Northampton and, Damon Hill BMW Warwick -- although the latter has changed hands a few times and I believe is now Rybrook.

Both very friendly dealers, very much on the ball and I was massively impressed that upon enquiring about new wings for my E24 the chap already knew who I was! My car had come up in conversation with a local body shop I use, the bodyshop had mentioned my car and the chap from BMW had noted down my details. I turned up to order some wings, didn't mention who I was but he knew! That counts for a lot in my opinion.

[lyndon_h]

Why are you willing to go from a 135 to 320 to a 123? I'd rather purchase a car from another company than do that.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by Ti335

I am not a sales rep nor am I making excuses for them. What I'm saying is that respect is a two way street. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to be respectful as well. And wasting someone's time and costing him his honestly earned commission simply because you are too dumb/lazy to call ahead and schedule an appointment is plain disrespectful. The other salesperson was quite correct in telling this guy to deal with the guy he was speaking to previously - sales people are not supposed to poach clients from each other.

The previous sales rep didn't do much for him. Showed him a couple cars (the main one of interest not existing as a choice anymore) and didn't do squat for paperwork, correct? If the CA isn't there the next time you can go in, I guess the customer should rearrange his/her schedule to make it fit for someone that hasn't locked in any sort of exclusive deal....???? And we're dealing with salesmen who work on hourly wages, not commission in this case.

Calling the OP a douche for walking into a dealer who openly accepts walk-ins when he had time is ridiculous. These are BMW's, not Maybachs. FFS some of you people need to get off your high horses.

Originally Posted by vacwm

my 2 cents... i would usually call ahead of time and see if the sales rep i work with is available and try and schedule something... they get paid on commission and i respect that. unless i dont like the rep, then i would look for other options.
i see your frustration, but i totally understand where the sales guy is coming from.

I agree with this completely. Would have been better to call ahead and arrange something. When possible, this is the best way to avoid misunderstandings and miscommunications.

Originally Posted by chungdae

You sound like a baby whining that the dealership sold the car you wanted. If you wanted that car so badly you would have left a deposit. It's sales what do you expect? Just because you were there the day before, hell even two hours prior, doesn't mean it's still going to be there when you come back. Welcome to life. You, then, say "I want this, no maybe this, no maybe that" you have to look at it from their prospective. If some kid that walked in THAT many times and did that to 3 different sales associates you would treat him in a reluctant manner as well. Again, welcome to life.

I don't get the impression that he was whining about the car he wanted having been sold. I got the impression he was upset about the way he was addressed by the CA. Nothing wrong with that IMO. Whether or not the CA is right to feel a little upset by the event, he should have been professional enough to address the matter professionally and with some sort of tact. People who fail to bite their tongues or address customers in a tactful manner don't belong in sales. Period. It sucks, believe me, but that's one of the things that separates the great salesmen from the absolutely horrid ones: tact.

Yes, the OP should have called ahead or setup appointments to make things work best. Also, there's nothing wrong with shopping around. I'm sure some people here are comfortable buying a vehicle for tens of thousands of dollars "sight unseen", but it's not wrong for him to consider his options as a consumer. But, in the end, he is shopping for a car at a dealership who claims walk-ins for their own benefit. Again, it's a BMW dealership. We are talking about BMWs, not Learjets.

[KingOfJericho]

Bottom line is that buying a car is not like buying a pair of pants where they have all sizes and colors in stock for you to pick from. You can't fault a dealer for not having a car you want or selling one that you were looking at. 90% of the people on this forum went in to the dealer, test drove the car, then sat down and ordered the car exactly as we wanted it. It shouldn't take an hour for the CA to tell you what they have available on the lot or coming in soon so I think you're a bit of a tire kicker in that way in drawing out the process. You're "Whoa is me, I've been without a car for 2 months" predicament is all your doing in expecting the dealer to just have a slew of cars for you to choose from. You need to stop pussyfooting and order a car.

[RR335]

Sounds like your a young guy. This is a learning experience for you. See at Toyota land they usually have ton of cars on the lot and like to sell a car that day and for you to take that day.

BMW 1 series is a limited production car and almost everytime you try to get what you want especially if your not flexible you will have to order your car. Its also a timing issue where they stopped building 2010 models and are building 2011 models starting March but ready for May delivery. Be loyal to your sales person I doubt they get paid by hour but by commission of course. I am sure they are not happy with you coming in talking to different people each time. But its not your fault you did not know better. Next time call ahead make apt so he can be available for you and you dont need to wait around. Common courtesy!!

[J-9]

Just because the stakes are higher doesn't give the CA leverage to question the customer like that. He's ready to buy, so they should be bending over backwards to get his $$$. Who cares what his age is.

And if the CA's missing business with other walk-in's, tough s**t, they might be in the same boat as the OP, who's to say? If this is a contact business, HIRE MORE CA'S!!!

It's the dealer's F'd up procedure that halves the commision when a customer gets passed off (lowering the CA's motivation to make a sale), not the customer's. It doesn't even apply in this case, so wtf.

I think it is jacked up that the seller cuts bait on a customer because they consider them a "tire-kicker". I'll take my business somewhere where it's valued. So should you, OP. Good luck.

[las1986]

yeh i would go to another dealership right away

[clar]

I always believe that in life, it should always be a win-win situation. In the case of buying a car, i want to get what i want and be served decently. At the same time, i insist that the sales rep gets reasonably compensated for his/her efforts. I never put on airs or think mighty of myself just because i am a paying customer. Put yourself in the sales person's position...Today, i am on very good terms with my sales rep and would always pop by to say hello and have a quick chat whenever i pop-by for servicing and stuffs. Recently, when i popped by unannounced after servicing to inquire about the new X5, my sales rep was having coffee with another customer. I told him to ignore me and do his thing as i never made any appointment. I browse around, but turned down offers from the waiting receptionist to direct me to a sales person. When my sales rep was available, he came to me and we had a great chat and the car.

I feel it's always desirable to have a pleasant buying experience. The funny thing is that this is my 2nd sales rep as the first one was a jerk-off. He was downright rude and dismissive in normal conversations when i wanted to custom order my 135i. I promptly asked for a new sales rep. The bottom line is, i always start by being nice to people, but if they turn out otherwise, it's never too late to give them shit.