[NaTuReB0Y]

cliff notes please.........

[CokerRat]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

You say, "who gave us permission?", the countries crying for our help essentially did.

There are indeed countries in civil disorder the need help, and the UN exists in part to quell those problems. The USA, along with many other countries, send troops to these countries for peacekeeping operations. Even the Kuwait restoration in the early 90's had nearly unilateral support among the western powers, and the USA pulled a heavy load on behalf of many other nations.

Yet when the USA invades countries without UN support, surely it is obvious why the rest of the world is concerned about who the USA may decide to "save" next? Is it America's mandate to decide who should and should not be in control of other nations?

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Lex

You don't get it do you...the world would be ruled bt Facist or Communists without the US! Period end of story.

But the world is so beautiful and stable now...thanks to us
It is great that you get it so clearly...

There was never more hatred and instabiluty from Asia, Middle East, South America in the world than in last 20 years...incidentally since we became the sole Superpower and decided to "spread" around our way of living...

I believe you don't get it and never will...

[schneid4323]

WTB the OP a hooker

[Lex]

Originally Posted by dr325i

But the world is so beautiful and stable now...thanks to us
It is great that you get it so clearly...

There was never more hatred and instabiluty from Asia, Middle East, South America in the world than in last 20 years...incidentally since we became the sole Superpower and decided to "spread" around our way of living...

I believe you don't get it and never will...

Why don't you get out your history book & see how many millions of people who were slaughtered under Facist & Communist...Nazi Germay, Soviet Russia, , Imperialist Japan, Communist China..Vietnam..Cambodia..North Korea etc,etc,etc...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Lex

Why don't you get out your history book & see how many millions of people who were slaughtered under Facist & Communist...Nazi Germay, Soviet Russia, , Imperialist Japan, Communist China..Vietnam..Cambodia..North Korea etc,etc,etc...

what do WE (alone) have to do with defeating fascists...
If it was not for Russia, you would not only be driving German car now -- you would be also singing Deutschland uber alles every morning...

I suggest you check the books...

As for the Commies -- add all the slaughter in Vietnam + Korea + Balkans + Iraq war that we "helped" and the numbers will be fairly close...

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by dr325i

what do WE (alone) have to do with defeating fascists...
If it was not for Russia, you would not only be driving German car now -- you would be also singing Deutschland uber alles every morning...

I suggest you check the books...

As for the Commies -- add all the slaughter in Vietnam + Korea + Balkans + Iraq war that we "helped" and the numbers will be fairly close...

You are high. We were marching through Berlin at the same time as the Russians and we would have even if the Russians were annihilated - it just would have taken longer. Go back to school dumbshit and stop believing whatever brainwashing you've gotten. It's people like you that say we had it coming on September 11th and that we deserve what we got.

I really wish we could send people like you back in time. Let's see how you like living under Stalin or Hitler. Then you might realize what a complete jackass you are. Wait nevermind, you won't so no point.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by gum5h03

You are high. We were marching through Berlin at the same time as the Russians and we would have even if the Russians were annihilated - it just would have taken longer. Go back to school dumbshit and stop believing whatever brainwashing you've gotten. It's people like you that say we had it coming on September 11th and that we deserve what we got.

I really wish we could send people like you back in time. Let's see how you like living under Stalin or Hitler. Then you might realize what a complete jackass you are. Wait nevermind, you won't so no point.

Again -- you do not understan the very thing you claim you're protecting -- democracy and our freedom. There is nothing in democracy by saying -- "You're with me or against me", but yet, every time I say something against the current Admin, you get offended. I never said anything against the USA or the people here -- I only critisize the Gov't and its policies. But I guess it is not so easy for you to comprehend that.

This unjust war -- yes, I blame the Gov't solely, nothing on you or your buddies. I know your job is way tougher than my office job (physically and mentally, I was in a war before), and I will salute you for doing your job well, but will not glorify you because -- in the end, you signed up for it and that is your job, you should have known what you've signed for...

Now, if you think that by doing your jod you're more patriotic, more manly and so on than the rest of us -- you're wrong.

BTW -- your job is to serve people of this country and protect people's ideals of this country -- not to kiss Bush's or Clinton's ass, and automatically assume that what they decide is right (as proven lately). On the other hand, I understand the brainwashing part of it as it would have been risky to allow you to form your own opinion in the situation like this...

Stay safe...

[BudVlad]

Originally Posted by dr325i

what do WE (alone) have to do with defeating fascists...
If it was not for Russia, you would not only be driving German car now -- you would be also singing Deutschland uber alles every morning...

I suggest you check the books...

As for the Commies -- add all the slaughter in Vietnam + Korea + Balkans + Iraq war that we "helped" and the numbers will be fairly close...

What kind of books are you reading?
Have you ever heard about “Molotov Ribbentrop Treaty”?
Have you ever heard about Stalin executing Red Army officers on advice of Hitler’s agents?
Red Army debacle when invaded Finland?
Have you ever heard about Stalin trusted more his friend Hitler than his own agents when warned about the invasion of Russia?
Have you ever heard how many Canadians died by supplying almost defeated Red Army by US war materials?

One think I don’t understand. If people are so afraid of Americans why is it that so many want to live there. You have the choice to live wherever you want. Most people don’t have that choice.

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Again -- you do not understan the very thing you claim you're protecting -- democracy and our freedom. There is nothing in democracy by saying -- "You're with me or against me", but yet, every time I say something against the current Admin, you get offended. I never said anything against the USA or the people here -- I only critisize the Gov't and its policies. But I guess it is not so easy for you to comprehend that.

This unjust war -- yes, I blame the Gov't solely, nothing on you or your buddies. I know your job is way tougher than my office job (physically and mentally, I was in a war before), and I will salute you for doing your job well, but will not glorify you because -- in the end, you signed up for it and that is your job, you should have known what you've signed for...

Now, if you think that by doing your jod you're more patriotic, more manly and so on than the rest of us -- you're wrong.

BTW -- your job is to serve people of this country and protect people's ideals of this country -- not to kiss Bush's or Clinton's ass, and automatically assume that what they decide is right (as proven lately). On the other hand, I understand the brainwashing part of it as it would have been risky to allow you to form your own opinion in the situation like this...

Stay safe...

I don't get offended because your opinions are different than mine. That's fine...that's what America is all about. I do get irritated that people from other countries are hyper critical of the US and its people and take out their frustrations on us because we're the only 'superpower" left to blaim. I get frustrated that people come here to make a better life for themselves then complain that this country is not up to par.

Americans have been fighting to keep their identity, their individuality and their freedom since the 18th century. There hasn't been a global or regional conflict which would affect our sovereignty that we haven't been involved in. There have been some blunders and some tragedies yes, but the overall theme has been to keep America free.

I don't agree with the current administration, heck I think it's a damn shame that the American people were lied to and that we entered the conflict over in Iraq. That's not something I can control unfortunately. I tried my best with my vote 4 years ago, but apparently not raising taxes was more important to the rest of the country than getting our boys out of Iraq. This country is not without faults not unlike every other country out there. With that said I think this is the best damn place to live and raise my family and wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world period.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by BudVlad

One think I don’t understand. If people are so afraid of Americans why is it that so many want to live there. You have the choice to live wherever you want. Most people don’t have that choice.

Let me simplify it for you -- some of us moved over here 20+ years ago when America was a different country...

Also, if you look at today's immigration records, the majority of people that move this way are from very poor countries or very unstable (war thorn) countries...

And last, no other country (beside Canada) has (or had) easier immigration laws than the USA...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by gum5h03

I don't get offended because your opinions are different than mine. That's fine...that's what America is all about. I do get irritated that people from other countries are hyper critical of the US and its people and take out their frustrations on us because we're the only 'superpower" left to blaim. I get frustrated that people come here to make a better life for themselves then complain that this country is not up to par.

Americans have been fighting to keep their identity, their individuality and their freedom since the 18th century. There hasn't been a global or regional conflict which would affect our sovereignty that we haven't been involved in. There have been some blunders and some tragedies yes, but the overall theme has been to keep America free.

I don't agree with the current administration, heck I think it's a damn shame that the American people were lied to and that we entered the conflict over in Iraq. That's not something I can control unfortunately. I tried my best with my vote 4 years ago, but apparently not raising taxes was more important to the rest of the country than getting our boys out of Iraq. This country is not without faults not unlike every other country out there. With that said I think this is the best damn place to live and raise my family and wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world period.

I like that honest opinion!

I am just unclear what the Iraq war and Balkans wars and...have to do with the affect on OUR sovereignity?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by dr325i

what do WE (alone) have to do with defeating fascists...
If it was not for Russia, you would not only be driving German car now -- you would be also singing Deutschland uber alles every morning...

I suggest you check the books...

As for the Commies -- add all the slaughter in Vietnam + Korea + Balkans + Iraq war that we "helped" and the numbers will be fairly close...

Your ignorance is pathetic, The Commies & Facists killd over 80 million people in the last century..Its amazing to me how many on the left worship the commies & socialist policies that have lead to MURDERING their own people...You are absolutely & totally ignorant, people like you & Sean Pean who betray this country & go live it up with dictators like Saddam & soon to be Chavez and say how bad 7 imperialist America is...you are high!

Do you know why America is so great, how it is & has been & always will be the most giving & generous country in the history of the world.. it is because of the most brilliant document ever penned by man & thats the Constitution of the United States of America & its ammendments. That document has provided the for the people to be free of government intervention & let capitalism run free which has resulted in the greatest economy(again) in the history of the world.

Have you ever looked at the economy of the USA vs. any other country, its even larger than the EEU, the USA kicks ass, Germant & France just elected conservative governments because they campaigned on lowering taxes.

All these countries complain about their being exploited, etc. while their governments are totally corrupt(i.e.South America, Africa, Asia etc.) They should ADOPT the economic policies of the USA baby & compete & free their people to produce.

Look at China today they ralized after the fall of the U.S.S.R. they had to develope economic free zones in their country because Communism doesn't work... LESS GOVERNMENT WORKS I HAVE PROOF LOOK AT THE US ECONOMY...It's the economy stupid.

[c0nstant]

[darrenbmw]

First, you have made an important point with your post: Your still alive and not in jail after writing it. THAT is the Country USA is where you can post your "emotion" and get by with it. Try that in Iraq and many other countries, AND still have your prosperity, home, life, kids, etc ..

USA is the greatest country to have ever been developed. It has helped, freed and existed for the very reason of freedom and peoples rights.

Wether you think this is a great country or not, is not important to me, but you do have a choice to live in Greece. Why come or stay here. Last I heard we have an IMMIGRATION problem of trying to keep people from coming here ILLEGALLY. We have never had a problem of closing our borders to keep the poor unfortunate soles here in the USA.

The arrogance and hypocracy of your post is disgusting.

I will tell EVERY American family who has lost someone in ANY war the U.S. has been involved in that they are the REAL HEROS of the world. NOT the Hollywood elite that have made millions from the American way of doing things and then somehow translate that into HATING their country.

History will be VERY kind to George W. Bush, same as it was with Ronald Reagan. At the time of his presidency they said he was a dumb actor, cowboy who was WAR happy. Well .. it turns out he was THE instrument that helped END Communism. I am sure there are millions of Russians who ARE happy with that. As well as USA being very instrumental in leaders such as Stalin, Hitler etc that are NO LONGER leaders as they were brutal dictators and sadistic egomaniacs. Much like Saddam Hussein.

Again .. you are free to leave the United States of America at any time and enjoy whatever country you "think" is better or you are not "afraid" of.

I wish you a happy life, and if you should choose to stay here, I am sure it will happen as YOU control your destiny in the USA.

Another fellow Citizen and LOVER of this COUNTRY.

[darrenbmw]

Originally Posted by Lex

Your ignorance is pathetic, The Commies & Facists killd over 80 million people in the last century..Its amazing to me how many on the left worship the commies & socialist policies that have lead to MURDERING their own people...You are absolutely & totally ignorant, people like you & Sean Pean who betray this country & go live it up with dictators like Saddam & soon to be Chavez and say how bad 7 imperialist America is...you are high!

Do you know why America is so great, how it is & has been & always will be the most giving & generous country in the history of the world.. it is because of the most brilliant document ever penned by man & thats the Constitution of the United States of America & its ammendments. That document has provided the for the people to be free of government intervention & let capitalism run free which has resulted in the greatest economy(again) in the history of the world.

Have you ever looked at the economy of the USA vs. any other country, its even larger than the EEU, the USA kicks ass, Germant & France just elected conservative governments because they campaigned on lowering taxes.

All these countries complain about their being exploited, etc. while their governments are totally corrupt(i.e.South America, Africa, Asia etc.) They should ADOPT the economic policies of the USA baby & compete & free their people to produce.

Look at China today they ralized after the fall of the U.S.S.R. they had to develope economic free zones in their country because Communism doesn't work... LESS GOVERNMENT WORKS I HAVE PROOF LOOK AT THE US ECONOMY...It's the economy stupid.

MOST EXCELLENT POST AND VERY EDUCATIONAL. NOT TO MENTION, 100% ACCURATE.

[c0nstant]

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Let me simplify it for you -- some of us moved over here 20+ years ago when America was a different country...

OK, well if you don't like it now then why not leave?

Are you chained down and can't leave? Or is it that you don't want to leave? It must be convenient to bash the country that you're pretty much "mooching off" since your country of origin is also no longer good enough.

I don't get it. You say people are moving here from poorer or war torn countries. They don't have to come here. There are thousands of other places for them to go to. But they choose the USA because they are almost guaranteed a better life, not many other countries can offer that. Immigrants really need to stop biting the hands that feeds them because the govt. could choose to get a hell of a lot stricter on immigration laws or deport non-citizens when ever they choose. The USA is taken for granted and then spit on. It's rather upsetting.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by darrenbmw

First, you have made an important point with your post: Your still alive and not in jail after writing it. THAT is the Country USA is where you can post your "emotion" and get by with it. Try that in Iraq and many other countries, AND still have your prosperity, home, life, kids, etc ..

USA is the greatest country to have ever been developed. It has helped, freed and existed for the very reason of freedom and peoples rights.

Wether you think this is a great country or not, is not important to me, but you do have a choice to live in Greece. Why come or stay here. Last I heard we have an IMMIGRATION problem of trying to keep people from coming here ILLEGALLY. We have never had a problem of closing our borders to keep the poor unfortunate soles here in the USA.

The arrogance and hypocracy of your post is disgusting.

I will tell EVERY American family who has lost someone in ANY war the U.S. has been involved in that they are the REAL HEROS of the world. NOT the Hollywood elite that have made millions from the American way of doing things and then somehow translate that into HATING their country.

History will be VERY kind to George W. Bush, same as it was with Ronald Reagan. At the time of his presidency they said he was a dumb actor, cowboy who was WAR happy. Well .. it turns out he was THE instrument that helped END Communism. I am sure there are millions of Russians who ARE happy with that. As well as USA being very instrumental in leaders such as Stalin, Hitler etc that are NO LONGER leaders as they were brutal dictators and sadistic egomaniacs. Much like Saddam Hussein.

Again .. you are free to leave the United States of America at any time and enjoy whatever country you "think" is better or you are not "afraid" of.

I wish you a happy life, and if you should choose to stay here, I am sure it will happen as YOU control your destiny in the USA.

Another fellow Citizen and LOVER of this COUNTRY.

+1

[GreekMaverick]

Originally Posted by darrenbmw

First, you have made an important point with your post: Your still alive and not in jail after writing it. THAT is the Country USA is where you can post your "emotion" and get by with it. Try that in Iraq and many other countries, AND still have your prosperity, home, life, kids, etc ..

USA is the greatest country to have ever been developed. It has helped, freed and existed for the very reason of freedom and peoples rights.

Wether you think this is a great country or not, is not important to me, but you do have a choice to live in Greece. Why come or stay here. Last I heard we have an IMMIGRATION problem of trying to keep people from coming here ILLEGALLY. We have never had a problem of closing our borders to keep the poor unfortunate soles here in the USA.

The arrogance and hypocracy of your post is disgusting.

I will tell EVERY American family who has lost someone in ANY war the U.S. has been involved in that they are the REAL HEROS of the world. NOT the Hollywood elite that have made millions from the American way of doing things and then somehow translate that into HATING their country.

History will be VERY kind to George W. Bush, same as it was with Ronald Reagan. At the time of his presidency they said he was a dumb actor, cowboy who was WAR happy. Well .. it turns out he was THE instrument that helped END Communism. I am sure there are millions of Russians who ARE happy with that. As well as USA being very instrumental in leaders such as Stalin, Hitler etc that are NO LONGER leaders as they were brutal dictators and sadistic egomaniacs. Much like Saddam Hussein.

Again .. you are free to leave the United States of America at any time and enjoy whatever country you "think" is better or you are not "afraid" of.

I wish you a happy life, and if you should choose to stay here, I am sure it will happen as YOU control your destiny in the USA.

Another fellow Citizen and LOVER of this COUNTRY.

Thx for posting, please read my post once again throughly and if it seems a little TOO CHALENGING at some parts, i will be more than glad to brake it down for you....Y O U-M I S S E D-T H E-W H O L L E point of the post, your reply has left me stunned to say the least.....!

Quote: " The arrogance and hypocracy of your post is disgusting. "

First of all, Lets get something straight, ONCE AGAIN....I don't HATE this country, I grew up here, I lived most of my life by the Green monster watching fast balls hit 90mph @ Fenway park. I Love this country, My concern is w' the current Administration and where it seems to have steer this country, how many more lies would you like to be served today. ?

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by GreekMaverick

Thx for posting, please read my post once again throughly and if it seems a little TOO CHALENGING at some parts, i will be more than glad to brake it down for you....Y O U-M I S S E D-T H E-W H O L L E point of the post, your reply has left me stunned to say the least.....!

Quote: " The arrogance and hypocracy of your post is disgusting. "

First of all, Lets get something straight, ONCE AGAIN....I don't HATE this country, I grew up here, I lived most of my life by the Green monster watching fast balls hit 90mph @ Fenway park. I Love this country, My concern is w' the current Administration and where it seems to have steer this country, how many more lies would you like to be served today. ?

Maybe your title should say "Why I'm afraid for Americans" since you pronounce yourself proudly as one. Maybe your English is a little rusty? Otherwise your point is stupid. How can you be afraid of a group that you yourself belong to? That would be like me saying "I'm afraid of white upper middle class men that drive BMW's." Sounds silly doesn't it...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by GreekMaverick

Thx for posting, please read my post once again throughly and if it seems a little TOO CHALENGING at some parts, i will be more than glad to brake it down for you....Y O U-M I S S E D-T H E-W H O L L E point of the post, your reply has left me stunned to say the least.....!

Quote: " The arrogance and hypocracy of your post is disgusting. "

First of all, Lets get something straight, ONCE AGAIN....I don't HATE this country, I grew up here, I lived most of my life by the Green monster watching fast balls hit 90mph @ Fenway park. I Love this country, My concern is w' the current Administration and where it seems to have steer this country, how many more lies would you like to be served today. ?

no point of discussing it on-line with some that clearly have never experienced any of what they wrote -- i.e. Germany and France wanting to follow our way of living and so on... Just makes me laugh to read all that crap...

As for "why staying here when..." question:
1) When all added up, and my position in this society, my life fits me OK here. I am trying to clarify things like -- what about the healthcare for those serving tables or packing the groceries...not me

2) my family is happy here, so am I

3) The USA today (and yes, mainly last 6 years of cowboyism) has nothing to do with the USA from the times of WW2, or even 20 years ago...

Now, we should come back to this topic some time, 10 years from now...when our kids start feeling and experiencing what we have not...