[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by nachob

Reminds me of this Stallone Movie where people have digital sex because the real thing was "outdated' and messy. I have to agree, it's probably better but there is great joy from outdated things like that, strumming a real guitar instead of Garage Band or sky diving instead of watching it on iMax.

Poor analogy, but since you brought it up I take it you still listen to AM radio, have a desktop computer and a myspace account.

[ZooMMM]

Time and time again... To each his own. DCT owner here. Surely faster, quicker shifts. But my next car will definitely be back to MT. whatever car that is. Be it a less car than an M3. Just more fun and engaging... For me. Again, to each his own.
My wife thinks I'm nuts when I enjoy spooling the engine of a 4-cyl. econobox rental MT car every time we go on vacation in the Caribbean or Central/South America. Won't take my rental car any other way.
MT hopefully won't die soon. Getting limited. If so, there's always other countries to go to to enjoy some manual shifting.

[Technic]

If you are driving a low-powered car then you have to worry about other things than chirping your tires...

Originally Posted by kevinlevrone

So if you don't have a 300hp turbo engine, you will just wait (forever and ever) for the wheels to spin, because you can't dump the clutch, right ?

[hwelvaar]

Over here in Western Europe, 80% of all cars sold are manuals.

AT is considered a luxury option, that you get in expensive BMWs or Mercedes. And the likes of Ferrari/Porsche/Aston etc have it standard.

The new M3's DCT is a 4.000$ option.

Joe Average drives MT around here. Most 1-series and 3-series sold are MT.

As long as BMW keeps charging extra $ for AT, I don't see MT going away soon.

[vinny84]

As an enthusiast, I love both Manual and DCT. And the new ZF 8spd gives incredible performance for a conventional automatic.

I currently drive a 135i w/ manual and I love the engagement that it offers and how notchy the gearbox feels. Having said that, I have on order a M235i with the ZF 8spd but have been pondering going to the 6spd almost everyday haha.

It's honestly very tough to decide. I think I'm going to go with the auto, after test driving the M235i dealer demo. The shifts are just viscous and honestly behaves like a DCT when driving on public roads. I can't speak how it compares to an M DCT but I've owned 2 VW's with DSG, so I have experience with dual clutch gearboxes.

Track wise might be a different story but if I'm lucky I'll be able to track this car only 3 times a year, so honestly any benefit that the manual or M DCT offers on the track will be minimal for me.

And yes, besides the faster shifting, the ZF offers 2-3 mpg better than the manual, and yes that's a pro in my book that I'm wagering in my decision. You simply cannot overlook the pro's this transmission offers. And I have launch control if I ever want to emulate 'dropping a clutch' from a dead stop

[Mr. Nice]

manual all day everyday, and for those that say dct is faster, that only applies if you are able to drive your car at the limit, which 99.9% of people on this board can't even come close to

[paddyrx8]

I'll be ordering my 2 series Active Tourer with the Auto box. LOL.

Where did it all go wrong BMW?


Having owned an E46 M3 SMG Auto and the same car as a manual, I much prefer the manual for involvement.

Having said that the M135i has a very sweet Auto box.

Manuals will always be more desired by purists, they will almost certainly be more collectable and valuable future classics.

[italia]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

Over here in Western Europe, 80% of all cars sold are manuals.

Anyone have a graph of the year-to-year trend of the movement away from manual transmission cars in U.S. versus Europe that they can integrate with this graph?

[hwelvaar]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

I don't understand those who "must" have manuals. I can understand those who only drive automatics (my wife), but why would ANY self proclaimed "car enthusiast" limit himself to a manual transmission?

Some people like the act of piloting a car, and the mind/hands/feet coordination that goes with it.

They don't care if you're faster at a stoplight or faster around a track with an AT.

[italia]

Or stated differently, how many people who look like this are able to lift their left leg regularly to operate a clutch?

[Itgb]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

I don't understand those who "must" have manuals. I can understand those who only drive automatics (my wife), but why would ANY self proclaimed "car enthusiast" limit himself to a manual transmission?

More control. More engaging. More fun.

[BJCO23]

It took me 6 months to find my 335i E90 manual as CPO but had to go to northern California and endes up with a new one. I'm now selling it and there seems to only be a few peeps looking for 6Spd manual with 4 doors. Shame on the market!

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

Some people like the act of piloting a car, and the mind/hands/feet coordination that goes with it.

They don't care if you're faster at a stoplight or faster around a track with an AT.

And an automatic transmission stops the feeling of "piloting" a car? I think it's merely a macho thing to feel superior as part of the dying breed. I get that. I just think it's sad that some would bypass an excellent automatic transmission for such reasons. There are so many cars that "manual only" people can't drive. Including super cars.....

I just don't get it. I've read so many posts from "manual only" people and the reasons are all equally.......... As if they've never driven a good automatics on a nice track, or a good automatic in rush hour traffic.

[italia]

Originally Posted by BJCO23

It took me 6 months to find my 335i E90 manual as CPO but had to go to northern California and endes up with a new one. I'm now selling it and there seems to only be a few peeps looking for 6Spd manual with 4 doors. Shame on the market!

Yes, sad. Going forward, buying rather than leasing a MT should be a bigger consideration due to the re-sale issues. Unfortunately, if they haven't already, residuals on MT may begin to reflect the re-sale challenges of MT cars.

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by Itgb

More control. More engaging. More fun.

More control: I get this. Some people simply can't handle it without more control.

More engaging: Maybe, but why does your train stop at manual transmission? Why not boycott drive by wire, power steering....etc and everything else that makes modern cars less engaging?

More fun: I can't argue with this one. However, perhaps you just don't know how to have fun with an auto gear box. No?

[BJCO23]

@Italia, interesting thing is.. I leased it and bought when lease was over last year. I guess I'm now paying the consequences but at the same time, never liked automatic transmission unless they're the ZF or DCT's.
I'm confident right customer will show up eventually who's a real "enthusiast".

[kdiggz]

I don't care if a dual clutch is faster or more efficient. If they get rid of manual transmissions then I won't buy one. It's about having fun and feeling like you are part of the experience...something bmw was always good at but is losing sight of

[e92nut]

For me, i love MT cars. I feel like i have better control of the car and it has always helped me stay alert on road. When ever i drive an auto especially late night after a drink or 2 i just want to pass out not but not in a MT.

[Saphirschwarz]

They could bring an automatic transmission with paddles AND an electronic stick ( looking and maybe almost feeling like a real MT). That wouldnt be so hard to imagine... I would definitely give it a try.

[italia]

Originally Posted by BJCO23

never liked automatic transmission

I'm with you. In nearly four decades of driving, I've had one automatic. Couldn't wait to get rid of it.

[MasterP]

BMW needs to continue to offer the MT in their cars. It's slowly going away though.

Showrooms don't have them laying around because the only people who would buy them get irritated that it has "X" package on it too and blah blah blah. So that car sits on the lot for a year. MT buyers will only want MT. and they ONLY want certain options. If you want MT in a BMW - prepare to order it and wait on it.

I have a client who wants a MT 650i, but they discontinued them. You used to be able to get a 6MT in the 550i, but now you can only get it in the 535. So tell a person on a 550i budget to jump $30K to a M5 - it doesn't work.

It's still found in the core models thankfully, but how much longer is anyone's guess.

But there are cars I'd prefer the auto-manual in. The BMW just isn't one of them.

[Luminor513]

Dual clutch transmissions have slowly killed the MT. Nothing will ever replace the tactile connected feeling of an MT, but dual clutch is where the performance market has gone towards.