[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by IndyRed128i

Yeah, politics now are a mess in both countries.

I do think Biden's student loan plan was a step in the right direction though. Luckily I don't have a dog in that fight, but it's clear the loan are predatory, and colleges have taken advantage of a lot of young folks. Both parties ultimately agree with that.

Next step is to get rid of the student loan program all together!!

…On the surface it sounds great, just like visions of a society full of electric vehicles, no more homelessness, etc……but implementation will be shoddy (…and I don't think tax payers should be on the hook for everybody else's financial decisions). I certainly don't want my tax dollars used for that. Colleges are complicit right along with the government. Student loan debt cannot be laid squarely on the shoulders of the educational institutions alone. Society also plays/played a role in pushing certain degrees that don't really do anything to further somebody professionally. The person choosing a field of study and signing on the dotted line bears at least 50% of the responsibility, too. I think the better approach would've been to lower interest rates for the student loans (….e.g…..if the approach is just to write off all of the debt, why not just make the loans interest free so that the core amount is paid back?!?!), extend/offer better payment plan terms, etc. rather than distributing other people's financial obligations for the masses to pay. I would even be willing to consider debt forgiveness for specific fields of study (…e.g…med school, law school, etc.), with the requirement being you must be currently employed in the respective field of study as a nurse, doctor, lawyer, etc. and you must pay back a portion of what was borrowed before qualifying for loan forgiveness (…which is what happened with my lady who has been a practicing attorney for more than two decades; after 10 years of qualifying professional work and paying back a percentage, the remaining amount was forgiven). Paying for somebody's nonsense liberal arts degree, for example, while they sit on their ass doing nothing or wasting time working at Subway is ridiculous.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by IndyRed128i

...
I do think Biden's student loan plan was a step in the right direction though. Luckily I don't have a dog in that fight, but it's clear the loan are predatory, and colleges have taken advantage of a lot of young folks. Both parties ultimately agree with that...

Does that include technical degrees also? At least a graduate of WyoTech is productive upon graduation!

[Sedan_Clan]

Nice wins for the second amendment fight in California. Both SB 918 and AB 1227 failed. Sneaky politicians snuck failed AB 1223 language into the latter bill, and they were caught. Serves them right.

[IndyRed128i]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

…On the surface it sounds great, just like visions of a society full of electric vehicles, no more homelessness, etc……but implementation will be shoddy (…and I don't think tax payers should be on the hook for everybody else's financial decisions). I certainly don't want my tax dollars used for that. Colleges are complicit right along with the government. Student loan debt cannot be laid squarely on the shoulders of the educational institutions alone. Society also plays/played a role in pushing certain degrees that don't really do anything to further somebody professionally. The person choosing a field of study and signing on the dotted line bears at least 50% of the responsibility, too. I think the better approach would've been to lower interest rates for the student loans (….e.g…..if the approach is just to write off all of the debt, why not just make the loans interest free so that the core amount is paid back?!?!), extend/offer better payment plan terms, etc. rather than distributing other people's financial obligations for the masses to pay. I would even be willing to consider debt forgiveness for specific fields of study (…e.g…med school, law school, etc.), with the requirement being you must be currently employed in the respective field of study as a nurse, doctor, lawyer, etc. and you must pay back a portion of what was borrowed before qualifying for loan forgiveness (…which is what happened with my lady who has been a practicing attorney for more than two decades; after 10 years of qualifying professional work and paying back a percentage, the remaining amount was forgiven). Paying for somebody's nonsense liberal arts degree, for example, while they sit on their ass doing nothing or wasting time working at Subway is ridiculous.

I agree about the interest rate change, however:

The idea that it is just "liberal arts" degree people being lazy is not the real issue. That is a speaking point being pushed by certain media outlets(BTW, I didn't vote for Biden either). The issue is people that have a decent, (think $50-$60K), but far from great income who were sold the idea that their earning potential would be much greater. No 18 year old has the life experience to make those kind of financial decisions.

But to your point, I can agree people that signed on the line bare responsibility, as well as the college, which is why $10k, which mostly represents accrued interest being forgiven, seems fair. We all pay money through taxes that don't directly benefit us. Child tax credit for people with no kids, Paying for schools when you don't have kids, welfare, exc...

I have seen people affected by these loans, and not one of them are lazy, they just weren't fortunate to have the best guidance earlier in life, and they should not be held back for life because of this.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by IndyRed128i

I agree about the interest rate change, however:

The idea that it is just "liberal arts" degree people being lazy is not the real issue. That is a speaking point being pushed by certain media outlets(BTW, I didn't vote for Biden either). The issue is people that have a decent, (think $50-$60K), but far from great income who were sold the idea that their earning potential would be much greater. No 18 year old has the life experience to make those kind of financial decisions.

But to your point, I can agree people that signed on the line bare responsibility, as well as the college, which is why $10k, which mostly represents accrued interest being forgiven, seems fair. We all pay money through taxes that don't directly benefit us. Child tax credit for people with no kids, Paying for schools when you don't have kids, welfare, exc...

I have seen people affected by these loans, and not one of them are lazy, they just weren't fortunate to have the best guidance earlier in life, and they should not be held back for life because of this.

You make fair points, and my intention wasn't to categorize all arts degrees as useless. It was just an example I used. Guidance notwithstanding, I still am not on board with blanket student loan forgiveness. We, as a society, tend to perpetuate laziness and entitlement among people, and the remedy is always to bail people out and lay the responsibility on the taxpayer. It gets old…….it is old.

In two posts, we both agreed on a better solution that wouldn't lob responsibility on everybody else and is arguably better than just removing all personally accountability. The government can do better, but that's not truly the goal.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Certain person(s)/people believe that we are incapable of fact checking and deriving information from multiple sources to verify the authenticity of the information. They believe that just because a source they don't fancy reports on an issue (…usually because other media outlets are purposely and strategically deciding not to report on [insert topic/global event here]), that the information itself is without merit and completely erroneous.

Don't beat around the bush. You only believe in watching news that affirms your own beliefs. Confirmation bias. You are MAGA. You pick tribe over country. Consistently.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by paquet

One can make the argument that if a politician in power is not trying to build bridges and bring people together, and instead demonizing a section of them, then they are inadvertently destroying the country from within by fomenting discord...

A house divided against itself cannot stand. Lincoln, I believe.

Agreed. I can find many more examples if you'd like.

"The choice in November is going to be very simple," Trump said during a speech in Vandalia, Ohio. "There's never been a time when there's been such a difference. One is probably communism. I don't know. They keep saying socialism. I think they've gone over that one. That one's passed already."

https://www.newsweek.com/president-t...munist-1533395


Former President Donald Trump is blasting Senate Democrats for executing a "communist plan to destroy America," after pushing ahead with their $3.5 trillion budget spending plan.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/11/trump-...to-destroy-us/

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by paquet

The "green" climate activist shitheads in Germany really fucked over the entire country by prostituting themselves to Russia for natural gas AND shutting down Germany's own nuclear reactors.

It's treasonous behaviour - removing self-dependence on energy.

We can certainly agree on that.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

lol whut? Why did you take my words out of context?

Just say what you want to say, but at least do me the justice of not mixing my words up in a different order to construe something you can feign superiority over.

I'm on my phone, harder to highlight what I want to highlight. But I got the context right.

[paquet]

Captain Blood

Some points I'd like to make that I hope will help us attain more of the common ground we already have:

Trump's behaviour has to be examined in context:

a) he is a symptom, not a cause
b) in other words, there is a vein of discontentment that he has tapped into

So, what is the underlying reason people are listening to him?
That has to be addressed with reconciliation - else that gap will just grow larger.

c) not using his behaviour as carte blanche for everyone else to act in the same way (the old 'if so and so jumped off a bridge, would you do so too?')

Unfortunately, we aren't seeing any attempt to reach across the aisles, but just a sort of trench warfare on each side, with the current president being just as guilty.

Social media has made this gap much worse - with both the domestic AI and foreign interests (bots) promoting divisive agendas for profit (through ad clicks etc)
Nobody needs a sound bite for Twitter or cable TV or a meme on Facebook, but solid well thought out plans that have wide ranging appeal.

To put some meat on abstract concepts, taking student loan forgiveness as an example:
- Is the degree/diploma something that has economic value that will provide a job? Or a very niche category?
- Is it something purely for personal enrichment rather than economic value of a job paying X or higher?

Treat it like a business loan. What is the likelihood of it being paid within X years? Like an actuary assesses risk.

I could go on and on about accusatory racism, etc, but this long enough for a friday morning eh and i've hijacked @Sedan_Clan's thread enough

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

I'm on my phone, harder to highlight what I want to highlight. But I got the context right.

No. You didn't.

This has nothing to do with the difficulty of highlighting specific words because you are on your phone. What you did do however is reply to me, then take a few of my words and rearranged them in a completely different order to suggest that I had said something I had not as a subquote. That has nothing to do with highlighting anything. You made zero effort to actually quote me, and a reasonable effort to pretend I had said something I hadn't.

Do better.

Feel free to read what I said and tell me what about it suggests some sort of alt right biased news source.

[rwheels]

Originally Posted by paquet

Captain Blood

Some points I'd like to make that I hope will help us attain more of the common ground we already have:

Trump's behaviour has to be examined in context:

a) he is a symptom, not a cause
b) in other words, there is a vein of discontentment that he has tapped into

So, what is the underlying reason people are listening to him?
That has to be addressed with reconciliation - else that gap will just grow larger.

c) not using his behaviour as carte blanche for everyone else to act in the same way (the old 'if so and so jumped off a bridge, would you do so too?')

Unfortunately, we aren't seeing any attempt to reach across the aisles, but just a sort of trench warfare on each side, with the current president being just as guilty.

Social media has made this gap much worse - with both the domestic AI and foreign interests (bots) promoting divisive agendas for profit (through ad clicks etc)
Nobody needs a sound bite for Twitter or cable TV or a meme on Facebook, but solid well thought out plans that have wide ranging appeal.

To put some meat on abstract concepts, taking student loan forgiveness as an example:
- Is the degree/diploma something that has economic value that will provide a job? Or a very niche category?
- Is it something purely for personal enrichment rather than economic value of a job paying X or higher?

Treat it like a business loan. What is the likelihood of it being paid within X years? Like an actuary assesses risk.

I could go on and on about accusatory racism, etc, but this long enough for a friday morning eh and i've hijacked @Sedan_Clan's thread enough

With apologies to Sedan, but i just wanted to point the different takes on the same subject.

Joe Biden Again Threatens Political Enemies with F-15 Jets
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/31/joe-biden-threatens-political-enemies-f-15-jets/

Biden blasted for mocking ‘brave’ Second Amendment defenders: 'You need an F-15' to fight America, not a gun
https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-blasted-mocking-brave-second-amendment-defenders-you-need-f-15-fight-america-not-gun

Biden says gun owners would need F-15s and nukes to take on the US gov’t
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/06/biden-says-gun-owners-would-need-f-15s-and-nukes-to-take-on-the-us-govt/

Huge Spike In Americans Buying F-15s After Biden Suggests You'll Need Them To Overthrow Government
https://babylonbee.com/news/nation-starts-stocking-up-on-f-15s-after-biden-says-youll-need-them-to-overthrow-the-government/

Notice the methods of attracting the reader? Therefore it becomes the responsibility of the individual to seek out their own truth, if they wish. Anyone have a spare F-15 they want to get rid of?

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by rwheels

With apologies to Sedan, but i just wanted to point the different takes on the same subject.

Joe Biden Again Threatens Political Enemies with F-15 Jets
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/31/joe-biden-threatens-political-enemies-f-15-jets/

Biden blasted for mocking ‘brave’ Second Amendment defenders: 'You need an F-15' to fight America, not a gun
https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-blasted-mocking-brave-second-amendment-defenders-you-need-f-15-fight-america-not-gun

Biden says gun owners would need F-15s and nukes to take on the US gov’t
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/06/biden-says-gun-owners-would-need-f-15s-and-nukes-to-take-on-the-us-govt/

Huge Spike In Americans Buying F-15s After Biden Suggests You'll Need Them To Overthrow Government
https://babylonbee.com/news/nation-starts-stocking-up-on-f-15s-after-biden-says-youll-need-them-to-overthrow-the-government/

Notice the methods of attracting the reader? Therefore it becomes the responsibility of the individual to seek out their own truth, if they wish. Anyone have a spare F-15 they want to get rid of?

I'm pretty sure it is legal to own an F15.

Now getting a company that has one or makes them to sell to you is another story and then getting the armaments and spare parts is another.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

I'm pretty sure it is legal to own an F15.

I seem to recall something about private citizens not being able to own supersonic military aircraft, and it came up because people were trying to import newer Soviet-era MiGs.....

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

are there statuory speeding limits. for example i just cross into state, and there is no speed limit sign posted yet...but i get pulled over and given a ticket. I was given a break and already paid...just want to know for knowledge. the speed I was clocked at will make any judge throw the book at me.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

are there statuory speeding limits. for example i just cross into state, and there is no speed limit sign posted yet...but i get pulled over and given a ticket. I was given a break and already paid...just want to know for knowledge. the speed I was clocked at will make any judge throw the book at me.

Yes, there are. Speed surveys. among other governmental devices determine speed limits and set a statutory standard. I would've given you a break too.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I seem to recall something about private citizens not being able to own supersonic military aircraft, and it came up because people were trying to import newer Soviet-era MiGs.....

Heck even a WWII Mustang can go supersonic. Once.

[Sedan_Clan]

So emails from big government to big tech have been procured, and within these emails it has now been revealed without a doubt that the Biden administration has lobbied/mandated big tech to censor free speech and political opponents. This is a whopper! Talk about dictatorial behavior.

I worry about how law enforcement on a state/county/municipal level will be weaponized for political use. We already see how the FBI is being utilized as a political weapon. This is scary stuff.

[rwheels]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So emails from big government to big tech have been procured, and within these emails it has now been revealed without a doubt that the Biden administration has lobbied/mandated big tech to censor free speech and political opponents. This is a whopper! Talk about dictatorial behavior.

I worry about how law enforcement on a state/county/municipal level will be weaponized for political use. We already see how the FBI is being utilized as a political weapon. This is scary stuff.

So does your job allow you to take home evidence, for example? And at what stage is taking home Top Secret documents allowed? What am I missing?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by rwheels

So does your job allow you to take home evidence, for example? And at what stage is taking home Top Secret documents allowed? What am I missing?

You are aware that every President has retained classified documents, right?!? You also realize that Hilary Clinton had possession of classified information - on a private email server - AND destroyed evidence as well. Many documents deemed "Top Secret" really aren't top secret in the way you are thinking (…e.g….recipes, for example). How did you feel about Clinton's actions!?! Why didn't they raid her residence or file charges?! Surely your position should be that law, or application of the law, should be equal across the board…..right?!? I would wager that's likely not what you truly believe. If we replaced Hunter Biden with Donald Trump Jr. as it pertained to the laptop, the response by the media would be entirely different. That laptop would've been forensically dissected within 24-48 hours. A year later the FBI still hasn't investigated what's on that laptop……and we all know why.

[rwheels]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You are aware that every President has retained classified documents, right?!? You also realize that Hilary Clinton had possession of classified information - on a private email server - AND destroyed evidence as well. Many documents deemed "Top Secret" really aren't top secret in the way you are thinking (…e.g….recipes, for example). How did you feel about Clinton's actions!?! Why didn't they raid her residence or file charges?! Surely your position should be that law, or application of the law, should be equal across the board…..right?!? I would wager that's not what you truly believe. If we replaced Hunter Biden with Donald Trump Jr. as it pertained to the laptop, the response by the media would be entirely different. That laptop would've been forensically dissected within 24-48 hours. A year later the FBI still hasn't investigated what's on that laptop……and we all know why.

I am not in favor of any U.S American being above the law. But I will say that regardless of Hilary's actions, and lack of government inaction, at the time, does not allow future citizens to do the same on account that someone else did it. Should any future government official claim that "if they can do it, so can I". Where does it stop?
I could care less what the media says, I still have the responsibility to seek the truth for myself. We are all adults here, and if we allow ourselves to be influenced by "media", whether from the left, or right, it can only be because that is what we want to believe.
Now to what the FBI does, remember that J. Edgar Hoover left a very bad taste in the minds of Americans for all he did with that entity.
Again, no U.S. American should be above the law, but at my age, I've learned that favorable justice seems to come to the rich, at least on this side of life.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by rwheels

I am not in favor of any U.S American being above the law. But I will say that regardless of Hilary's actions, and lack of government inaction, at the time, does not allow future citizens to do the same on account that someone else did it. Should any future government official claim that "if they can do it, so can I". Where does it stop?
I could care less what the media says, I still have the responsibility to seek the truth for myself. We are all adults here, and if we allow ourselves to be influenced by "media", whether from the left, or right, it can only be because that is what we want to believe.
Now to what the FBI does, remember that J. Edgar Hoover left a very bad taste in the minds of Americans for all he did with that entity.
Again, no U.S. American should be above the law, but at my age, I've learned that favorable justice seems to come to the rich, at least on this side of life.

At the core, I agree with you. I just don't care for selective enforcement, selective prosecution, misuse of government resources (…e.g…law enforcement departments), etc. The law should be applied equally and fairly, but that is not what is currently taking place.