[JSP///M4C]

Fugly

[ObsidianX]

I am going to hold out praising or bashing this until we see the model in an M sport aerodynamics package. I like that the headlights don't touch the front grill. The X1 and X2 are both getting 35i variants in the US. I think this still has potential to be a decent commuter for those of us in the snow belt with xDrive even if it has a FWD bias.

[kadify]

I don't hate this. The front looks like a shrunk down 6 series and the back is very reminiscent of the current 3 series which isn't awful by any means (not great either...). I think for what it is, being a small cheap BMW made to get people introduced to the brand it's excellent.

[nanceman]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I'm pretty sure it will arrive for the ROW soon... End of an era for BMW...

Info here:

http://www.motor1.com/news/129107/bmw-1-series-china/

That front end is 100% Dodge Dart.....

[IMG]http://blog.briggstopeka.com/hs-fs/h...=1470830183467[/IMG]

[wdeerfield]

Originally Posted by mPlasticDesign

An AWD 1M sedan version would be interesting. I think I would like the size and that pano roof looks awesome!!!

i agree. even just a turbo 4 with awd could be great. so long as they chop a foot off that shifter.

[scoobysaurus]

Originally Posted by fndrsn

Don't understand why so many people are crying over this. BMWs have never been exclusive, they're as mainstream as Toyota or whatever "low level" brand you guys are trying to rail.

Going by your logic, if BMW is a low level mainstream brand, why aren't the 3, 4 and 5 series priced against the Civic, Mustang and Camry respectively? Looking at it from another perspective, if BMW is a Toyota competitor why would Toyota need Lexus to compete with BMW? Surely you can't be mainstream and charge double the money that other mainstream brands charge, unless you're suggesting that we BMW owners are idiots that overpaid for our 'low level' Toyota-rivaling mainstream cars.

[b-thumper]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananaz18

What are your thoughts on the S3? We see a lot of them in the city and I love the way the look. We'll will be moving to the burbs this spring/summer an am definitely considering one.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, if they can garnish this car with all the love they gave to the M2 and make an argument for not getting an audi S3, I'll stay with them. If not, its time to either jump ship or pick up a ZHP.

It's a great little car. Basically a Golf R in sedan form. It's quick, looks good, and the interior is quite high quality, especially when you spend some time in it.

Only real negative for me is the transmission when you are not driving aggressively; it aggressively shifts to save fuel. You can drop it into sport mode without much effort, but then it's going to hang onto gears a little too long for normal driving.

If you are serious, go test drive one. I have mag-ride and it's definitely worth it. Oh and if rear seat head room is an issue, go with a Golf R, the hatch roof line has more height in back.

[ilikebmxbikes]

dammnit - my imagination had drawn up so much more. this car looks terrible.

[mfstrby]

Are we sure this is really made by BMW? no knock-off?

[R N M]

Originally Posted by fndrsn

Don't understand why so many people are crying over this. BMWs have never been exclusive, they're as mainstream as Toyota or whatever "low level" brand you guys are trying to rail. The existence of this car doesn't make an M3 or 6-Series any less of a great car. Does an S-Class owner concern themselves with the existence of the V-Class? No, they just enjoy the amazing car they have for what it is, not for what it's related to �� Snobbery like what's on display in this thread is why BMW owners have such a bad rep for being douchebags imo

You must be fairly young and never experienced the pre-///Marketing era of BMW.

In the 80s to 90s to 2000s - BMW was a very aspirational brand that was not on every street corner. ///M cars were even rarer. The cars were all amazing to drive even the most basic models had great steering and some of the best suspension tuning and obviously the engines.

I think BMW is still great but they are going downhill lately in DRIVING DYNAMICS, styling and quality. These cheap FWD cars are opposite of everything that BMW ever stood for! What's worse is the regular 3 and 5 series drive and sound like crap unless fitted with M sport suspensions, exhausts and other crap. A base 3 series has nothing special to it and that is very sad. If you drive a base 911, you still are amazed by the experience and that is why Porsche is still going in the right direction.

[cavargas]

Typical BMW, concept car looks great, then the final product is a huge disappointment. If they plan to go after the Mercedes cla and Audi A3 with this, then they are out of their mind.

[Omar81]

Not a fan. I hope that BMW launches a real CLA & A3 competitor for the ROW.
The concept looked amazing. The final product does not.

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by R N M

You must be fairly young and never experienced the pre-///Marketing era of BMW.

In the 80s to 90s to 2000s - BMW was a very aspirational brand that was not on every street corner. ///M cars were even rarer. The cars were all amazing to drive even the most basic models had great steering and some of the best suspension tuning and obviously the engines.

I think BMW is still great but they are going downhill lately in DRIVING DYNAMICS, styling and quality. These cheap FWD cars are opposite of everything that BMW ever stood for! What's worse is the regular 3 and 5 series drive and sound like crap unless fitted with M sport suspensions, exhausts and other crap. A base 3 series has nothing special to it and that is very sad. If you drive a base 911, you still are amazed by the experience and that is why Porsche is still going in the right direction.

Dude its year 2016 BMWs from 80,90 & early 2000 has no place in this world anymore, Other then being rare cars, But from an environmental perspective they are gone for. I Agree that BMW has done a lot of great cars in the past but now its 2016 and by the year 2030 if some of the rules that EU wants to push for goes thru then by 2030 no combustion engine cars are ever to be made again in the EU.

And by this logic BMW is changing their brand towards electric & hybrid cars, This is what annoys me the most about people who talks about how great BMW was back then, Yes that was back then different rules different era, You cant constantly live in the past and pretend nothing has changed and the enivorment is still the same and the emissions are not harmful for the planet.

BMW is doing what any smart brand has to do to survive they adapt and switch away research from old tech like combustion engines witch are still ineffective as a way of propelling our cars, Where a lot of energy is lost just out the exhaust for no good reason.

FWD small cars are better for fuel consumption and with smarter hybrid engines they do fit in perfectly for new type of rules that are being written in to the EU.

And if am not entirely wrong BMW is still offering great BMW M cars for those that want a more rare BMW focused on driving and fun rather then a transport from A to B, As for many of the million of people out their with cars they see the vehicle as a way of getting from A to B nothing more nothing less, And they couldn't care less what type of car it is, And that is the market BMW is trying to hit getting regular car buyers so they can keep developing the great M cars otherwise they are done for and we won't see any Ms at all in the future.

If people could start thinking like this on the forums that would be great and stop whining about "Oh god BMW has lost its way" yada this and yada that, No BMW has not lost its way they are adapting to a new world with new regulations and demands so they can survive and still make those car that we love so much even if they have to put out a car on almost every market.

I personally would love to see BMW in the future and that's why this type of models doesn't bother me. I know they exist for a good reason.

Adapt or be gone forever.

[The Big O]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

It has a mazda-like long throw shifter. Awful awful awful.

My goodness that shifter is horrid!! Sickening!! Maybe the Chinese like that? Still, its awful

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

Dude its year 2016 BMWs from 80,90 & early 2000 has no place in this world anymore, Other then being rare cars, But from an environmental perspective they are gone for. I Agree that BMW has done a lot of great cars in the past but now its 2016 and by the year 2030 if some of the rules that EU wants to push for goes thru then by 2030 no combustion engine cars are ever to be made again in the EU.

And by this logic BMW is changing their brand towards electric & hybrid cars, This is what annoys me the most about people who talks about how great BMW was back then, Yes that was back then different rules different era, You cant constantly live in the past and pretend nothing has changed and the enivorment is still the same and the emissions are not harmful for the planet.

BMW is doing what any smart brand has to do to survive they adapt and switch away research from old tech like combustion engines witch are still ineffective as a way of propelling our cars, Where a lot of energy is lost just out the exhaust for no good reason.

FWD small cars are better for fuel consumption and with smarter hybrid engines they do fit in perfectly for new type of rules that are being written in to the EU.

And if am not entirely wrong BMW is still offering great BMW M cars for those that want a more rare BMW focused on driving and fun rather then a transport from A to B, As for many of the million of people out their with cars they see the vehicle as a way of getting from A to B nothing more nothing less, And they couldn't care less what type of car it is, And that is the market BMW is trying to hit getting regular car buyers so they can keep developing the great M cars otherwise they are done for and we won't see any Ms at all in the future.

If people could start thinking like this on the forums that would be great and stop whining about "Oh god BMW has lost its way" yada this and yada that, No BMW has not lost its way they are adapting to a new world with new regulations and demands so they can survive and still make those car that we love so much even if they have to put out a car on almost every market.

I personally would love to see BMW in the future and that's why this type of models doesn't bother me. I know they exist for a good reason.

Adapt or be gone forever.

I think you are mistaken when you say that FWD cars are more efficient. The only things they are better for is packaging and production cost. They also easier handling for novices.

To give you a few examples.
Real MPG for a F30 320d: 53 mpg (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/...-f30-2012/320d).
Real MPG for the Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi: 47 mpg http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/...15/20-tdci-150
Real MPG for the Peugeot 508 2.0 HDi: 51.7 mpg http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/...08-2011/20-hdi
The 320d is one of the most fuel efficient car in its class, whilst being one of the most powerful...

The only reason why BMW decided to go FWD are for the 1 series is for packaging, production cost (using the cheaper mini architecture VS the more expensive F30 3 series architecture), and benign handling to attract a wider clientele.

In doing that and becoming more "genereralist" auto maker with the 1 series, 2 series tourer etc, they are taking the risk of losing their core clients.

The argument of economics about becoming a "generalist" car maker can also be defeated by the example of Porsche, which is one of the most profitable car maker, without having to dilute their brand.

[pz619]

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I think you are mistaken when you say that FWD cars are better for fuel consumption. The only things they are better for is packaging and production cost. They also easier handling for novices.

To give you a few examples.
Real MPG for a F30 320d: 53 mpg (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/...-f30-2012/320d).
Real MPG for the Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi: 47 mpg http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/...15/20-tdci-150
Real MPG for the Peugeot 508 2.0 HDi: 51.7 mpg http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/...08-2011/20-hdi
The 320d is one of the most fuel efficient car in its class, whilst being one of the most powerful...

The only reason why BMW decided to go FWD are for the 1 series is for packaging, production cost (using the cheaper mini architecture VS the more expensive F30 3 series architecture), and benign handling to attract a wider clientele.

In doing that and becoming more "genereralist" auto maker with the 1 series, 2 series tourer etc, they are taking the risk of losing their core clients.

The argument of economics about becoming a "generalist" car maker can also be defeated by the example of Porsche, which is one of the most profitable car maker, without having to dilute their brand.

The only reason why BMW decided to go FWD are for the 1 series is for packaging, production cost (using the cheaper mini architecture VS the more expensive F30 3 series architecture), and benign handling to attract a wider clientele.

This isn't a bad thing if they can sell cars on the mini platform and gain more money for funding other cars in their line up, witch are more fun then their fwd counterparts then by all means keep doing so, why spend to much money on developing new FWD cars if they can use the parts from mini and such and sell at a premium price for the Chinese market for example. I don't see this at all as watering out the BMW brand cause the premium quality cars are still there just more easily funded at this point by getting more markets out their and more customers. Witch means for you and me who loves BMW premium cars get the same cars still but maybe for cheaper price and even more development put in to them.

When it comes to MPG Depends whether you are using an automatic or not but most FWD cars i have driven with the proper sized engine for the car they are better at fuel saving with the their equally sized rwd car and engine of the same size. But i do also know that BMWs 320d engine is one of the greatest engines there is when it comes to cars, I have it on my X1 so its called something like BMW x1 x20d it is a messed up name but it is awesome and that is an AWD car with a manual gearbox. While the x1 x20d automatic drinks a lot more fuel. So its not always so easy to compare.

For example the BMW 320d from 2012 an uppwards

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/...320d-automatic

it says 50.5 mpg that is metric units 5,6 liter/100 km and it translates to 0,56 l/km

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/volvo/s60-2010/d4

it says 52.4 mpg that is in metric units 5.4 liters/100 kms and it translates to 0,54 l/km

But when it comes to Porsche they are not an expectation from the rules if these rules comes forth and applies to all of EU Porsche will probably die as a company for not being able to produce engines that meets the demands of the EU standard. But that is going to be Porsche's headache.

What i am talking about is the future it is exactly what BMW is adapting to not right now companies cant live in the moment like you and i can, And truly enjoy our cars just the way they are, But they have to think at least 10-15 years ahead of time.

As a core client i couldn't care less about the 1er and 2er tourer they are not on my radar but they are there to fund BMWs research for newer engines and how to keep the "M" brand alive. Without to much sacrifice.

It would be awesome if all BMW cars where just as awesome as the 1M or M2 or the M3 CSL that would be great, But the market for these cars is so small that the company would either have to lay off so many employees to be able to keep that production only for their core client sure, you and i would be happy that BMW would be so rare, But its not realistically possible and i don't think BMW them self wants that either. So that's why we have the 2er tourer, 1er sedan for the Chinese market and so on. Without them BMW as a company would slowly but surly go under.

And i personally don't want BMW to disappear i love my BMW and love the cars they produce so i don't care if they release a couple of FWD version for the bigger market as long as they keep releasing new awesome M division cars but just refined and adapted to the new age.

[RENT-A-GOAT]

definitely one to stay in the rice republics.

[mfstrby]

Originally Posted by R N M

You must be fairly young and never experienced the pre-///Marketing era of BMW.

In the 80s to 90s to 2000s - BMW was a very aspirational brand that was not on every street corner. ///M cars were even rarer. The cars were all amazing to drive even the most basic models had great steering and some of the best suspension tuning and obviously the engines.

I think BMW is still great but they are going downhill lately in DRIVING DYNAMICS, styling and quality. These cheap FWD cars are opposite of everything that BMW ever stood for! What's worse is the regular 3 and 5 series drive and sound like crap unless fitted with M sport suspensions, exhausts and other crap. A base 3 series has nothing special to it and that is very sad. If you drive a base 911, you still are amazed by the experience and that is why Porsche is still going in the right direction.

Comparing Porsche with BMW is not fair because VW can afford to keep Porsche exclusive and high end while VW and Audi meeting the demands of lower classes.

That said, it still doesn't justify to produce that pile of garbage.

[twerle]

They really missed the opportunity to make a good looking car.

Now is too late.

[Tomahawk]

what are yall complaining about? this is miles ahead of the A3 in style. nothing "cheap" or fake about it.

[3M TAPE]

Those tail lights! So Chinese!!