[cwulffy]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Keep laughing. Daimler is crying now.

In the next 2 years, every auto manufacturer (yes, the ones that have many more years of experience making quality cars) will be eating Tesla's lunch.

If you haven't seen, Tesla's cars are terrible quality, and though owners and the media have been giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's not going to last. Insurance companies are now charging more to cover Teslas.

So, I continue laughing.

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by cwulffy

In the next 2 years, every auto manufacturer (yes, the ones that have many more years of experience making quality cars) will be eating Tesla's lunch.

If you haven't seen, Tesla's cars are terrible quality, and though owners and the media have been giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's not going to last. Insurance companies are now charging more to cover Teslas.

So, I continue laughing.

Lol. You're delusional. Model S was released 5 years ago and there's zero EV that can even compete with it now. 2 years later? Lol...give me a break! Model 3 at $35k has virtually Zero competition...look at its competitor: Chevy Bolt...lol an ugly pos at ~ $40k.
Btw, Insurance charge more to cover EV. You're so clueless!

[cwulffy]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Lol. You're delusional. Model S was released 5 years ago and there's zero EV that can even compete with it now. 2 years later? Lol...give me a break! Model 3 at $35k has virtually Zero competition...look at its competitor: Chevy Bolt...lol an ugly pos at ~ $40k.
Btw, Insurance charge more to cover EV. You're so clueless!

Lol, an Elon Musk fan boy at his finest. I digress since you clearly cannot put logic and reason ahead of your emotional obsession.

[Fundguy1]

Don't even try. Maybe you can argue with him when he's camping on line in Seattle to be the first to buy the next Iphone. That's the tesla target market.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by cwulffy

In the next 2 years, every auto manufacturer (yes, the ones that have many more years of experience making quality cars) will be eating Tesla's lunch.

If you haven't seen, Tesla's cars are terrible quality, and though owners and the media have been giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's not going to last. Insurance companies are now charging more to cover Teslas.

So, I continue laughing.

I'm on my third Tesla. And to be honest, I keep buying them because I like them much better than Audi and bimmers I've had in the past. Barely any shop visits or maintenance. Great quality. Not sure why people are trashing it.
I even had GL owner praising interior of my car. There is a very high chance it's going to be his next car. Next day he went to his job and told his employer to install the charging station outside of the office

Insurance is identical to my 2013 S6. And now it went down when I got an X

In order to eat Tesla's lunch, they have to build cars better. More effective and at better price. I don't see that happening with current manufacturing approach these old guys do

GM is losing close to 7k on each Bolt
What does it tell you?
And they can't even build them at the scale
So much for experienced manufacturer

I don't have a crystal ball, but I wouldn't be surprised if big three would need a bailout again in not so distant future

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

The company was built to work in a Nobama/Lying Hillary world, not a Trump one.

Alright well it's easy to see what's going on here and why you are not being objective about Tesla.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by akkando

Alright well it's easy to see what's going on here and why you are not being objective about Tesla.

But I am. I still think the tech isn't mature yet for many applications. I have deep doubts about the 3 being able to deliver the sales it needs to in order to make the company a success, and I feel the stock price is way overboard based on speculation and emotion. I put that quote in there showing that the company bet big that they would have the political backing of the government to aide their accent. Now they lost that. Musk backed out of advising Trump when he left the Paris Accord which Trump no doubt will take as a slight. I would be more surprised to see the 3 deliver on all its promises on time than I would to see Trump revoke the subsidies that make ev so attractive. Way more impediments were just put in place for its success. Trump's focus on ramping up fossil fuels is another. Ev looses a lot of attractiveness to the everyday buyer when gas is cheap. The average consumer will more often go with what's familiar if there's no economic reason to change. The economics of ev are shifting away from them leaving two much smaller groups who want the car. Environmentalist and gadget freaks. Those groups alone won't generate enough business to produce the necessary sales needed to meet the expectations of the stock.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

But I am. I still think the tech isn't mature yet for many applications. I have deep doubts about the 3 being able to deliver the sales it needs to in order to make the company a success, and I feel the stock price is way overboard based on speculation and emotion. I put that quote in there showing that the company bet big that they would have the political backing of the government to aide their accent. Now they lost that. Musk backed out of advising Trump when he left the Paris Accord which Trump no doubt will take as a slight. I would be more surprised to see the 3 deliver on all its promises on time than I would to see Trump revoke the subsidies that make ev so attractive. Way more impediments were just put in place for its success. Trump's focus on ramping up fossil fuels is another. Ev looses a lot of attractiveness to the everyday buyer when gas is cheap. The average consumer will more often go with what's familiar if there's no economic reason to change. The economics of ev are shifting away from them leaving two much smaller groups who want the car. Environmentalist and gadget freaks. Those groups alone won't generate enough business to produce the necessary sales needed to meet the expectations of the stock.

Well I would be disappointed if you don't have a short position on Tesla then since you feel you can see Tesla's future so clearly.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by akkando

Well I would be disappointed if you don't have a short position on Tesla then since you feel you can see Tesla's future so clearly.

Nope. Not yet. To many tesla zealots propping up the price.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Nope. Not yet. To many tesla zealots propping up the price.

I thought those were speculators who are buying on hype trying to make that quick buck. Now it's just zealots? Must be a lot of them, but I guess you don't think Tesla Zealots buy cars, just shares?

Very interesting...

[Fundguy1]

Lol whatever. Enjoy. The stock is overpriced being bought by speculators and zealots. Remember e-pets? If you want to get the farm, go right ahead. I recall in '99 a retired widow wanting to put her life's savings in AOL. It just goes up every day. Same buy fever here. Who knows when it ends, but a stock has to live up to its anticipated earnings. So far it hasn't. And since the new administration is in place, the catalysts that would drive average consumers to buy one are going away making it that much harder.

[Stu Pedasho]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

There was a time when M stood for "motorsport" and the engines were special. Heck, the entire cars were special!

Today M is a trim package.

Funny, never thought I would see the day when BMW emulates Detroit from the 70s and 80s, while Detroit builds the cars BMW built back when it was boss.

The problem with Detroit is that the cars lack style and performance. They mass produce "Boring". The trucks are nice as are some of the SUVs but the cars suck. Dodge tries to build muscle cars but who really wants a $60 or $70K Mopar product? Chrysler quality is horrible and the company excels at blaming suppliers for its woes.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Stu Pedasho

The problem with Detroit is that the cars lack style and performance. They mass produce "Boring". The trucks are nice as are some of the SUVs but the cars suck. Dodge tries to build muscle cars but who really wants a $60 or $70K Mopar product? Chrysler quality is horrible and the company excels at blaming suppliers for its woes.

I actually find the tesla one of the most boring cars around. The S model looks no better than any makers luxury sedan. I kept confusing them with Lincolns when they first came out. The interior is stark, basic, and the larger the screen, the less I like. Gauge cluster also is subpar. I feel like I'm looking at an 80s video game. I want real analog gauges, even if they are replicated digitally. LFA cluster is a good example.

The problem with US automakers isn't with design. It's with expences. They need to cut corners to pay for all the horrendous union contract and benefit costs. Just the healthcare plans for retired employees costs GM $1500 per car alone. Obama "saved" GMs union contracts. It still went through bankruptcy. But he allowed GM through a government loan to retain these contracts and not renegotiate them. Now its plagued with the same mess that got it there in the first place.

If Romney had been there, GM would have emerged with far reduced costs. Those savings would have been passed through into an improved and more desirable product. Fit, finish, interiors, design, are all cut early to save on costs to pay for the labor expences. GM wasn't saved. It's restructuring was just delayed a decade or two as a result. And like Iraq, we will have to go back and fix it again instead of fixing it correctly the first time.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by Stu Pedasho

The problem with Detroit is that the cars lack style and performance. They mass produce "Boring". The trucks are nice as are some of the SUVs but the cars suck. Dodge tries to build muscle cars but who really wants a $60 or $70K Mopar product? Chrysler quality is horrible and the company excels at blaming suppliers for its woes.

Boring. Really?

Corvettes go toe to toe with most anything coming from Germany or Italy.

Then there's the Ford GT (trounced Ferrari. Again). Ford GT350 with the beautiful flat crank V8.

The Camaro crushes everything from Germany, short of a 918. Yes, that includes 911s.

You can argue styling, but that's personal and subjective. While BMW is fully vested in turbos, Detroit builds screaming, high-revving naturally aspirated motors that make more power, sound better, and don't require a synthetic digital sound track played over the radio to mask the crappy noise.

You may not like American cars. Heck, I never used to. But the most exciting cars on the planet today are made in Detroit.

[Minkeebluee]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I bet equipping the Corolla with LED lights is what pushed Toyota past BMW. Definitely the lights.

/sarcasm

: definitely what I was thinking

[d_a_m]

It's actually a good thing for BMW to be 2nd to Toyota. I mean, Let's keep it real. Toyota markets 2 brands: Toyota and Lexus. Toyota to pretty much EVERYONE and ALL families (non luxury). BMW can't compete w that. Lexus, the luxury line of Toyota which is the only Competition we can beat or hang with. With that said, BMW alone is in a good spot. I don't see anyone beating BMW for that 2 spot anytime soon.