[are0lies]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Well, thing is ... many elderly don't give a flying ____ how they drive, either. Half of them shouldn't have licenses because they would fail either an eyesight test or the driving exam itself. And: Many of those know they shouldn't be driving but continue to because it's one of the few things they can still do by choice to enable personal freedom.

When self-driving cars become commonplace enough for some elderly to use, I'm a proponent of requiring a full re-examination for Driver's Licenses at age 65. The more of those we can get out of a driver's seat, the better.

Well you know what? I park where I want to park!! This one is my favorite, and haven't had anyone ding me yet. So there you go! :roll eyes: (definitely photoshopped, considering the shadows)

[Darth One]

that is total asshole parking, why the hell didn't you use one of the two clearly marked spots in the middle of the circle (the lines that make up the H shape)?

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Darth One

that is total asshole parking, why the hell didn't you use one of the two clearly marked spots in the middle of the circle (the lines that make up the H shape)?

+1

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

IMHO, if they have those issues they should give up driving before they kill someone.

Easy to say until it's your parents. I wouldn't say most of these old ppl who can't park for shyt are threatening lives on the road.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Easy to say until it's your parents. I wouldn't say most of these old ppl who can't park for shyt are threatening lives on the road.

Or: It's easy to say after your age-69 father refuses to let you drive even though he can barely feel his feet due to diabetes (among several reasons) so you ride shotgun and are almost killed via T-bone not once but twice during a 20-minute drive because your father can't feel the pedals and routinely either presses too hard or (no exaggeration) hits the wrong pedal.

(Run-on sentence intended.)

Yeah, that was the last time I rode in a car with either of my folks. He had no business driving -- and he had too much pride to do the smart thing and let his son drive. Sh*t like that kills people.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Or: It's easy to say after your age-69 father refuses to let you drive even though he can barely feel his feet due to diabetes (among several reasons) so you ride shotgun and are almost killed via T-bone not once but twice during a 20-minute drive because your father can't feel the pedals and routinely either presses too hard or (no exaggeration) hits the wrong pedal.

(Run-on sentence intended.)

Yeah, that was the last time I rode in a car with either of my folks. He had no business driving -- and he had too much pride to do the smart thing and let his son drive. Sh*t like that kills people.

Fair enough.

My parents are barely 50 so I haven't experienced that.

[are0lies]

Guy took two spots and got his tire slashed!!

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Easy to say until it's your parents. I wouldn't say most of these old ppl who can't park for shyt are threatening lives on the road.

Parking poorly is a symptom of driving poorly. Sorry, if you suck at one, you likely suck at the other and should not be driving.

[StuP]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

Parking poorly is a symptom of driving poorly. Sorry, if you suck at one, you likely suck at the other and should not be driving.

There may well be some truth in that. However, in a lot of the states not being able to drive is a major challenge, other forms of transport either don't exist, are very unpleasant or expensive. Maybe the autonomous vehicle is the answer after all, park assist can already parallel park better than most drivers......

[PhilipUK]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

When self-driving cars become commonplace enough for some elderly to use, I'm a proponent of requiring a full re-examination for Driver's Licenses at age 65. The more of those we can get out of a driver's seat, the better.

Actually, this is a fallacy. The elderly actually have a lower accident rate per mile than younger people. That's partly because they adapt (tend to do shorter journeys, use familiar roads, avoid driving at night, etc) and also because they are more risk averse. If you really want to reduce accident rates, you should keep people under 30 out of that driver's seat!

I'm also an advocate of re-examination for all drivers on a regular basis.

Meanwhile, back on topic, this is my preferred parking space when I get into work early enough (the GT86 is my daily driver):

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by PhilipUK

Actually, this is a fallacy. The elderly actually have a lower accident rate per mile than younger people. That's partly because they adapt (tend to do shorter journeys, use familiar roads, avoid driving at night, etc) and also because they are more risk averse. If you really want to reduce accident rates, you should keep people under 30 out of that driver's seat!

I'm also an advocate of re-examination for all drivers on a regular basis.

Meanwhile, back on topic, this is my preferred parking space when I get into work early enough (the GT86 is my daily driver):

That is truly a perfect space. As Shakespeare said: "a consummation devoutly to be wished".

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by StuP

There may well be some truth in that. However, in a lot of the states not being able to drive is a major challenge, other forms of transport either don't exist, are very unpleasant or expensive. Maybe the autonomous vehicle is the answer after all, park assist can already parallel park better than most drivers......

Let's hope. I have seen way too many people who should not be behind the wheel!

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by are0lies

Guy took two spots and got his tire slashed!!

LOL at Slash!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by StuP

I know, why would anyone do that ?

These are the same people that take the urinal next to you when no one else is in the restroom.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by jmg

These are the same people that take the urinal next to you when no one else is in the restroom.

that's more of an invitation than asshattery, though...

[are0lies]

Originally Posted by jmg

These are the same people that take the urinal next to you when no one else is in the restroom.

You mean like...

[Maynard]

Suddenly I feel a lot less alone (was gonna say 'less neurotic' but that's a stretch). And FWIW, one of the most reassuring things I read on one of these 'parking-rant threads was somebody who noted that, even though they drive a crap car, they park near the nice ones to give them cover because they used to have a cool car and get it. I also used to do that when I was in a beater, and sort of hope that the asshat who took the one-of 20 open spots by my car is actually one of these Samaritans.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by PhilipUK

Actually, this is a fallacy. The elderly actually have a lower accident rate per mile than younger people. That's partly because they adapt (tend to do shorter journeys, use familiar roads, avoid driving at night, etc) and also because they are more risk averse. If you really want to reduce accident rates, you should keep people under 30 out of that driver's seat!

I'm also an advocate of re-examination for all drivers on a regular basis.

I assume that in the U.K. re-examination happens regularly, as it does throughout most of the EU. In the U.S., it does not. That's part of the problem with the elderly issue here -- as is a lack of the kind of public transit that allows anyone in the U.K. to get to just about anywhere else in the U.K. either by wheeled public transit or by rail. We do not have that here.

So while the the elderly, per capita, may indeed have a lower accident rate, there is no data that I know of regarding how elderly drivers fare in terms of causing accidents. Many cause others to have an accident without their being involved in the mishap. To wit: What is proven by multiple studies in multiple countries is that the number-one cause of accidents is vehicles traveling too slow for prevailing traffic. Incompetent elderly drivers do this, per capita, far more frequently than any other age group. This is the real danger.

That, sir, is not a fallacy.

[Rampant]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I assume that in the U.K. re-examination happens regularly, as it does throughout most of the EU. In the U.S., it does not. That's part of the problem with the elderly issue here -- as is a lack of the kind of public transit that allows anyone in the U.K. to get to just about anywhere else in the U.K. either by wheeled public transit or by rail. We do not have that here.

So while the the elderly, per capita, may indeed have a lower accident rate, there is no data that I know of regarding how elderly drivers fare in terms of causing accidents. Many cause others to have an accident without their being involved in the mishap. To wit: What is proven by multiple studies in multiple countries is that the number-one cause of accidents is vehicles traveling too slow for prevailing traffic. Incompetent elderly drivers do this, per capita, far more frequently than any other age group. This is the real danger.

That, sir, is not a fallacy.

Sadly, re-examination does not exist here in the UK. I think it should. Even as a car enthusiast who may end up having to hand my licence back at some point if re-examination were to be introduced, I'd still be 100% in favour.

I'm with you that elderly can cause accidents because they become the hazard when they drive too slowly, or confusedly, or indecisively. However, it isn't just elderly that become the hazards, there are a huge swathe of other drivers who just do not concentrate on driving, have no situational awareness, or are just too deliberately inconsiderate to just label elderly, per capita, as a large proportion of accident causers...

[PhilipUK]

Nope - there is no re-examination in the UK. Pass your driving test at 17 and you can drive to 100 and beyond without ever being re-examined. (Some of us are even driving without ever having had to take a driving test - it's a long story).

However, I'm not sure that I subscribe to the idea of another driver being able to cause an accident that they are not involved in. You, as a driver, have total responsibility for driving your car, and that includes taking account of other road users and making allowance for their actions. Have you considered taking some additional driver training (in the UK, this is provided by the Institute of Advanced Motorists and by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents - both of whom offer advanced driving tests, which are examined by police Class 1 drivers) or looked into any of the principles of Defensive Driving?

As for the major cause of accidents being vehicles going too slowly, I'd love to see the evidence for this - it's not a causal factor that I've encountered despite having read quite extensively in the area. Can you please point me to a reference for these "multiple studies in multiple countries"? Almost all of the recent research points to "distracted driving" (making phone calls, texting, etc) being the major cause of collisions, followed by driver fatigue, poor anticipation and excessive speed for the conditions.

Every study that I have read shows that young males (who have an exaggerated opinion of their own capabilities, and often hope that their fast reactions will compensate for their poor anticipation) are the people most likely to be involved in RTAs, a statistic enhanced by their propensity for risk taking.

[m3jala]

My wife was rolling her eyes about it until after 3 years in, I showed her all the dings, dents and scratches in her car from car doors and shopping carts slamming into her car while she was out. After buying my current ride, she gladly walks with me, we get some air, talk a bit more, and it's all for the better.

[Maynard]

WAAAAy off track for a parking thread, but unfortunately what PhilipUK is stating matches the data I've seen - a true paradox: those w/ the best motor reflexes and senses are also statistically the worst, most dangerous drivers; while those with declining (sometimes worst) senses and reflexes are the safest - strategy wins over raw skill. It highlights the importance of making sure to torque the loose nut behind the steering wheel - your commute time is no place for red mist.