[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by 10"

Doubt that's true. You probably just feel that because the GT4 is so much more stimulating to drive in other ways!

You may be right. I will take both of them out tomorrow and see.
One thing for sure is the M2 with MPE sounds like garbage compare to the GT4,

[///3dkn]

Porsche FTW! Go pick up a used Cayman S or older model 911 for the time being?

Edit: Just saw you already made your choice. No worries, E46 M3 is also good.

[Isty]

Porsche is for sure FTW! A used 987.1S would be about the same price as a M3 e46 in Sweden at the moment, but I really want a 981S/GTS/GT4 if I'm getting a Cayman, and the moment I get a GT4 will be all the sweeter if I'm going from a front engined BMW instead of a 981S.

Patients is key! Got invited to drive the new 718GTS since I had bought a 2018 M2 brand new and the 718 blew me away, I always knew that the 981 gt4 is the car I want and the 718GTS helped that thought even more.

[to_riffic]

Love my GT4. Prices are softening slightly because of the 718 GT4 around the corner.

[Germanauto]

I'm guessing the steering of the ///M2 left you wanting more.

[Isty]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I'm guessing the steering of the ///M2 left you wanting more.

It did indeed! The steering in the m3 is lovley, so is the clutch and the ability to revmatch alllllllllll the time without having to deal with electronics.

Have to install a shortshift, after that it will be amazing!

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Isty

It did indeed! The steering in the m3 is lovley, so is the clutch and the ability to revmatch alllllllllll the time without having to deal with electronics.

Have to install a shortshift, after that it will be amazing!

The best one out there is the auto solutions kit.

They have a new, 0% reduction kit that I really want to change to (currently on their 20% reduction kit)!

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Isty

It did indeed! The steering in the m3 is lovley, so is the clutch and the ability to revmatch alllllllllll the time without having to deal with electronics.

Have to install a shortshift, after that it will be amazing!

There aren't really any cars with such steering anymore and it's sad. Haven't driven any of the upper echelon 911s but the Cayman S and other lower spec Porsches I've driven also had very "meh" steering. I wouldn't say it kills the experience but it leaves you disappointed that the car just isn't as fun as it could be.

Unfortunately maintaining an older German car is a headache. Personally it would make sense for a weekend driver, otherwise I can't justify it.

[10"]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I'm guessing the steering of the ///M2 left you wanting more.

I don't think any of the recent Cayman models have good steering either, to be fair. I remember getting out of a 981 GTS and being underwhelmed by the steering.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by 10"

I don't think any of the recent Cayman models have good steering either, to be fair. I remember getting out of a 981 GTS and being underwhelmed by the steering.

Really? The GT4 steering is great. I also have a new 718 Cayman GTS and the steering is so full of feel and precision you’d never know it was electric. It in electric form is better than any hydraulic bmw ever had and IMO really only outdone by Porsche’s hydraulic steering.

[RM7]

Some have done electronic steering very well, BMW has managed to do it very poorly.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by 10"

I don't think any of the recent Cayman models have good steering either, to be fair. I remember getting out of a 981 GTS and being underwhelmed by the steering.

I haven't driven the higher spec models, only driven the regular and S models. Steering felt similar to the F80 M4 with some added precision and less artificial heft. Still not on par with even an E90 BMW.

Still a super fun car thought, I'm sure a GTS would blow my mind to pieces.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Some have done electronic steering very well, BMW has managed to do it very poorly.

BMW seems to do it poorly on purpose to appease to the badge wh*res.

It sucks that even the ///M models have dull steering. I understand these cars are overwhelmingly daily drivers, but prior ///M cars were too and they have beautiful steering. Why do even the most hardcore of cars need to be dumbed down for the masses BMW?

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Really? The GT4 steering is great. I also have a new 718 Cayman GTS and the steering is so full of feel and precision you’d never know it was electric. It in electric form is better than any hydraulic bmw ever had and IMO really only outdone by Porsche’s hydraulic steering.

I haven't driven the 718 yet, but I thought the steering feel was garbage on the 981-- including the GT4.

718 I doubt I'll bother driving, as I have zero desire for any turbos in my life (well, maybe on diesel trucks).

I need to give the 991.2 GT3 a spin. Steering sucked on the .1, imo, but people who's opinion I trust say it actually exists again on the .2. If steering feel actually exists on the .2, and now that manual is available again, that could be a car I could actually see getting.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I haven't driven the 718 yet, but I thought the steering feel was garbage on the 981-- including the GT4.

718 I doubt I'll bother driving, as I have zero desire for any turbos in my life (well, maybe on diesel trucks).

I need to give the 991.2 GT3 a spin. Steering sucked on the .1, imo, but people who's opinion I trust say it actually exists again on the .2. If steering feel actually exists on the .2, and now that manual is available again, that could be a car I could actually see getting.

I don’t agree. Garbage steering feel is something I’d say about e46 M3s to the current f8x which I’ve owned all. I mean, if you’re comparing to a 997 GT3 nothing is very good, but Porsche has near hydraulic levels of feel from their EPS.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

I don’t agree. Garbage steering feel is something I’d say about e46 M3s to the current f8x which I’ve owned all. I mean, if you’re comparing to a 997 GT3 nothing is very good, but Porsche has near hydraulic levels of feel from their EPS.

I drive a 981 pretty regularly, and dislike the steering every time I'm in it.

There's enough chassis feel that it doesn't matter as much as it would in a more practical (less practical) car, but very little comes through the steering wheel.

I think it's worse than my e39 M5, which has pretty bad steering feel (reticulating ball).

It's not particularly subtle, either-- I can (lack of) feel it just backing the 981 out of the garage. It's quite precise, and weighted nicely, but very little information comes through it.

[10"]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Really? The GT4 steering is great. I also have a new 718 Cayman GTS and the steering is so full of feel and precision you'd never know it was electric. It in electric form is better than any hydraulic bmw ever had and IMO really only outdone by Porsche's hydraulic steering.

Ive driven a base 718 and the steering was not "full of feel". The 981 GTS felt synthetic and overboosted. I have not driven a 718 GTS or 981 GT4 so I cannot comment. Electric steering simply does not have "feel". It's what's missing. They can artificially stiffen, make it feel quick, make it feel accurate....but it doesn't communicate the way a hydraulic rack can. None do including Porsche, IMO. Porsche are doing it better than BMW but that isn't saying much...

No wonder McLaren use hydraulic steering still...

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by 10"

Ive driven a base 718 and the steering was not "full of feel". The 981 GTS felt synthetic and overboosted. I have not driven a 718 GTS or 981 GT4 so I cannot comment. Electric steering simply does not have "feel". It's what's missing. They can artificially stiffen, make it feel quick, make it feel accurate....but it doesn't communicate the way a hydraulic rack can. None do including Porsche, IMO. Porsche are doing it better than BMW but that isn't saying much...

No wonder McLaren use hydraulic steering still...

Everybody wants to have configurable drive modes. But what ends up happening is that all drive modes leave you feeling underwhelmed. I miss when cars came out of the factory with one suspension and one steering setup. They were focused on being drivers' cars instead of catering to everybody.

Plus EPS gives that extra 1-2 mpg which nobody gives a flying f*ck about.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Everybody wants to have configurable drive modes. But what ends up happening is that all drive modes leave you feeling underwhelmed. I miss when cars came out of the factory with one suspension and one steering setup. They were focused on being drivers' cars instead of catering to everybody.

Plus EPS gives that extra 1-2 mpg which nobody gives a flying f*ck about.

EPS is good for ~.1 MPG over HPS.

... which is more offensive than if they were getting 1-2 out of it

I feel like the real fall of steering feel was so many people not understanding the difference between steering weight and steering feel. MANY times people have told me that their steering can be made as good as ______ because they can put it in sport mode to weight it up... a sentence that makes no sense.

[Red Bread]

Using the Wayback Machine, one of the car rags tested how many stacked quarters it took to register steering feel. Either the E36 M3 or the E36 M Coupe (same front ends) won by being able to transmit three stacked quarters.

I'd guess our LCI F30 would require twenty or more. Possibly attached to a curb.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Obioban

EPS is good for ~.1 MPG over HPS.

... which is more offensive than if they were getting 1-2 out of it

I feel like the real fall of steering feel was so many people not understanding the difference between steering weight and steering feel. MANY times people have told me that their steering can be made as good as ______ because they can put it in sport mode to weight it up... a sentence that makes no sense.

Such a great point.

Adding weight doesn't do anything for feel, it just turns the car into an artificial video game experience. The steering should have a decent amount of weight but it should not be overbearing.

[Isty]

Originally Posted by Obioban

because they can put it in sport mode to weight it up... a sentence that makes no sense.

The BMW M4/3 is the peeerfect example of that, in sport+ it gets so artificially heavy it's just stupid!
When my dad bought his M4 I was like "heck yeah! gonna try and drive it all the time!" But I think I've driven it twice in a year because it's sooo numb(not only steering).