[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

BMW already has a track machine. It's the M4GTS. Put your money where your mouth is and send some money there for one.

Why? It's priced absurdly, looks like a normal M3 and performs similar to competitors but doesn't sound anywhere nearly as good (911 GT3/GTS, AMG GT). At $135K Porsche has my money all day.

[cbertels]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Plus I'd safely say the AMG GT doesn't really eat away at C class AMG sales. No C63 AMG has been a legitimate track day car other than the Black Series. So MB wasn't in a position of strength to begin with with the sports saloon market. They NEEDED a 911 fighter to get buyers in the door. Remember, the MB buyers averaged out to be the older than buyers of all 3 luxury brands. (i want to say close to 50s was the average buyers' age).

The CLA got the younger generation in the door, not the AMG. BMW is poised to slot a monster successor to the outgoing 6er in that area. They won't though. Instead I understand we're getting a weird SAV/wagon contraption.

Just lookin at the massive fleet BMW has, its disappointing a halo car isn't among them.

[babaikram]

Originally Posted by SINasTER

You don't keep your car long enough... A car isn't supposed to last 4 years, especially at their price point.

I have owned a 2004 3 series, a 2008 335, a 2011 335 and a 2011 550. The 2011 335 the motor blew and I ditched it. The 550 is getting major surgery (motor and transmission replaced) right now and it's barely over 100k. My girlfriend had a 2001 Volkswagen with 560,000km on it and she changed it for a new one just because she wanted, never had a single issue with the car!

We are plagued by multiple recalls, maintenance issues, electronic problems and so on and that's on a car with just a couple years behind it.

At 80k$, the car should last at least 200,000km without major problems. And all those problems started around 2010, when bmw tried to sell more cars and decided to lower the quality to be able to supply the demand

I agree with you. Mercedes Benz have been shown to be much more reliable than BMW. The only silver lining is that BMWs are still more reliable than Audi.

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by cbertels

And yet still no true 911 or AMG GT competitor...

911s have no competitors......

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by babaikram

I agree with you. Mercedes Benz have been shown to be much more reliable than BMW. The only silver lining is that BMWs are still more reliable than Audi.

For me it has been the other way round.

My wife's 2016 GLE350D has been exceptionally unreliable in the first 8 months of ownership. Doubt I would buy another Merc anytime soon.

[aftercompletion]

Originally Posted by cbertels

Other than the Alpha, RS5/RS4, C63, CTS/ATS, I guess you're right. Not many cars in the 3er segment...

Sure, there's competitive cars in that segment, now. That's why I said in "the last 20 years."

For each legitimate competitor in 2018 you cherry pick I can name five cars from the last 20 years that tried billing itself as "3-killer" and failed miserably.

[MR_M2]

Looks like bmw is trying to catch up to fast and furious moniker. Fast and furious 9 or 9 series first?

[cbertels]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

Sure, there's competitive cars in that segment, now. That's why I said in "the last 20 years."

For each legitimate competitor in 2018 you cherry pick I can name five cars from the last 20 years that tried billing itself as "3-killer" and failed miserably.

Well let's see that extensive list. I showed you mine...

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by b.oom

i8 is targeting the base Carrera, with similar ouput and performance; and while the Porsche is ancient regarding the technology it is using, the BMW is coming with the latest trend. The i8 is the direct competitor for the 911, even if it is more expensive.
.

Wow, please tell me you dont actually believe this...the base 911 is light years ahead of an i8 performance wise. Its performance is more in line with the older E9X cars. The newer and less expensive 911s both S and non S are head and shoulders above the i8. I dont feel they are even cross shopped,well at least not here in the US. The entry point starting at $147k means you can get into a GT3.

[aftercompletion]

Originally Posted by cbertels

Well let's see that extensive list. I showed you mine...

Just off the top my head? Cars that tried to compete with the 3-Series but failed to make a dent in BMW's market share. This list probably soon to include the Tesla Model 3.

Jaguar X-Type
Cadillac ATS
Hyundai Genesis
Audi B5 A4
Infiniti G35
Infiniti Q50
Lexus IS XE10
Volvo S60
Merc C-Class W202

[10"]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

Just off the top my head? Cars that tried to compete with the 3-Series but failed to make a dent in BMW's market share. This list probably soon to include the Tesla Model 3.

Jaguar X-Type
Cadillac ATS
Hyundai Genesis
Audi B5 A4
Infiniti G35
Infiniti Q50
Lexus IS XE10
Volvo S60
Merc C-Class W202

why be such a fanboy? the 3-series hasn't been good in ages......AGES. the current one is anemic and dull. and the one before it was eh......

i'd say most of those cars on the list as as good at being an appliance as the 3-series has been for the past 15 years.

go drive a current Alfa Giulia sedan even in base form and you'll see what a REAL european sedan should feel like. It's miles better than a 3er.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by MRV99

Mercedes did not have a super luxury offering so they bought the struggling Maybach brand.

Not quite.

Maybach was founded by an ex-Daimler director in the early 1900s and purchased by Daimler-Benz in the early '60s to produce custom cars for Mercedes, not for it's nameplate. It is only in 1997 that the brand name was revived by MB to compete in the "super luxury" segment, although without great success and was terminated in 2013. Now, the Maybach name is used a designation for top-of-the-line S-Class models.

[Darth One]

I hate to interrupt a good dogpile on BMW for this nonsense (because they do deserve it), but I think you could interpret AvH as merely saying, my job is to design concepts, I'm designing concepts. I'm sure he has a pickup truck and a dune buggy somewhere in those files, as well

[antzcrashing]

Will it be available in a manual?

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Will it be available in a manual?

[lbahoshy]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

you guys realize what you're asking for right? You're asking for BMW to make a car that cannibalizes its halo performance car the M3.

Ask yourself, if they made a version of the AMG GT, would you still buy an M3?....

Also, if it was so damn easy to make a 911 competitor, then everyone would have done it and put Porsche out of business. The reality is, most every other major manufacturers are in the business of making people movers not sports cars. Even Porsche couldn't stay with making sports cars. The Cayenne sales is what is funding all their car development.

A proper sports car is not about pure performance only. It has to be emotional. It’s the whole experience. How the car looks, sounds, and of course the way it drives is the most important.

The average lay person would not distinguish an M3 from a 340 M performance looks wise. If BMW wants to compete with AMG GT, R8, etc then it needs to build something that looks like a super car or exotic car and has the performance to match. The i8 certainly has the looks but something is missing.

The 911 has an iconic shape that every child can recognize. There is no other car that looks or drives like it. With the rear engine layout you learn to drive it differently than other cars although the more recent iterations have taken away this characteristic somewhat. There is a very loyal following among 911 owners. The older ones hold their value really well - just look at 993 prices- 20 year old 911s selling for often more than m4 money. Just look at auto trader.

[Rupes]

Awesome - can BMW now make the 3 series its small sedan again?

[city1991]

Originally Posted by Jason

BMW design director Adrian van Hooydonk has hinted that a BMW 9 Series could be forthcoming. The 9 Series would likely be a 4-door coupe taking on the likes of the Mercedes-Maybach S600.

When asked by Autocar if BMW had plans for a 9 Series, van Hooydonk responded: "Let's say this: we won't stop here [with the 8 Series]. Obviously our job is to have more ideas than the company can build, because the other way round would be very bad.

"My team and I are now looking at 2021 and beyond – as far out as 2030. We have a lot of plans."

As for design? The BMW Future Luxury Concept shown in 2014 could easily be drawn upon for inspiration and clues.

Why not a 27 series? Fucking ridiculous with all these bullshit series. Turning into a damn joke!

[city1991]

Originally Posted by SINasTER

They should concentrate on build quality and resolve issues with the 3-4-5 series instead of pursuing more cash cows...

Quality has went to hell since 2011 and the uber-rich that potentially wants a 9 series will want quality and not have the car stay at the dealer for over a month each year :

Originally Posted by SINasTER

They should concentrate on build quality and resolve issues with the 3-4-5 series instead of pursuing more cash cows...

Quality has went to hell since 2011 and the uber-rich that potentially wants a 9 series will want quality and not have the car stay at the dealer for over a month each year :

EXACTLY!

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by lbahoshy

A proper sports car is not about pure performance only. It has to be emotional. It’s the whole experience. How the car looks, sounds, and of course the way it drives is the most important.

The average lay person would not distinguish an M3 from a 340 M performance looks wise. If BMW wants to compete with AMG GT, R8, etc then it needs to build something that looks like a super car or exotic car and has the performance to match. The i8 certainly has the looks but something is missing.

The 911 has an iconic shape that every child can recognize. There is no other car that looks or drives like it. With the rear engine layout you learn to drive it differently than other cars although the more recent iterations have taken away this characteristic somewhat. There is a very loyal following among 911 owners. The older ones hold their value really well - just look at 993 prices- 20 year old 911s selling for often more than m4 money. Just look at auto trader.

This.

It is almost impossible to explain this to someone that has never driven a Porsche sportscar.

I have only driven a 997 Carrera S and a 981 Cayman S, but both felt so incredibly tactile. It's almost as if the car reads your mind and responds accordingly.

Neither of those 2 cars were particularly fast, but it felt 10 times more special than any M car or AMG I have ever been in.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by mk1-fan

One can dream

[doccyber]

Oh Stop. What's next ? A 10, 11 and 12 series?