[auburnf30x]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

Our former e70 with third row had airbag suspension. And a 6,000 lb towing capacity. It decimated any in its class for the money. Our newer f15 is diesel and with the appropriate hitch, 7,700 lbs. we do tow, but nothing above maybe 3500. Most in the same mid sized suv class that would be the max capacity which would be unwise. As for mini vans, I find them emasculating and ugly as sin. All of them. The right sporty sporty suv offers much more than any van and sadly some sedans. To refute that is ignorance at its finest.

Picture for reference. About 4500 lbs on this trailer.

Was referring more to the mainstream 3-rows that dominate the highways...Telluride, Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander, etc. The dominant mommy-mobiles currently. None of them top 5,000 pounds capacity.

Enter into the BMW/MB/Porsche realm of SUVs, and we are talking about an entirely different set of driving dynamics and capability entirely. Did not intend those to be included in the wagon comparison.

With a choice given between the current hot topic crossovers and the afore mentioned wagons, for <5,000 lbs to tow, I'd rather have the wagon.

[Alfisti]

Yeah exactly, we are not talking Stelvio here, we are talking 3 row tanks. Nothing sporty in any way shape or form about them.

Just harder to access, no sliding doors and less features.

I don't get it.

[grocerylist]

That's ridiculous! You minus whale go get a Genesis GV80 for that price.

[stein_325i]

Thought this would be relevant to the discussion. A survey put out states that 4 out of 10 buyers would pay a markup for a new vehicle.

4 Out Of 10 New Car Buyers Would Pay 12-Percent Markup: Study

Originally Posted by Motor1

For those who've been living on Mars the past few months, you should know there's a global shortage of computer chips. It's affecting pretty much every industry that requires chips in its products, but the auto industry is really taking it on the chin. We've already seen production cuts and delays from numerous manufacturers, and that's driving up prices at dealerships. Apparently, a good chunk of buyers are willing to accept that.

In fact, a report from Cox Automotive states that close to 50 percent of new car buyers are prepared to pay a modest premium over MSRP to get their new ride this year. The report cites research from Kelley Blue Book (part of Cox Automotive) conducted during the last week of April, revealing that 4 out of 10 buyers would pay a 12-percent premium over sticker price to get their new car right now instead of waiting for better days. Based on the average new car price in the US of around $41,000, that equates to a $5,000 markup.

The study also shows that buyers are well aware of the current situation. 87 percent of those surveyed knew about the chip shortage, while 73 percent were expecting to see higher vehicle prices as a result. Clearly, not all of those people are willing to pay that extra price, but at the same time, the study says 23 percent won't pivot to the used market. However, 37 percent of buyers are willing to delay their purchase until the market is better.

Either way you slice it, the coming months won't be good for either new car buyers or automakers. Widespread disruptions in production could lead to revenue losses in the billions for major brands. On the retail side, buyers will face limited selection and a high likelihood of higher prices, especially on popular models.

[mecheng77]

FOMO is affecting car sales which is insane. The Kia will be lucky to be worth 1/2 that in a couple years. It's delusional ppl paying those prices making things worst

[W///]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Thought this would be relevant to the discussion. A survey put out states that 4 out of 10 buyers would pay a markup for a new vehicle.

4 Out Of 10 New Car Buyers Would Pay 12-Percent Markup: Study

This is absolutely ridiculous, and a great way for them to be upside down on their loan 84 month loans or whatever they offer these days. I'd get it if it was something rare and collectible, but we're literally talking about mass produced SUV's here. And in no way would I consider a 12% mark up a "modest" premium.

[heavyD^2]

The average consumer simply isn't very smart. As said above it's one thing to pay a markup for a limited volume special edition vehicle because it will likely retain some value to collectors but to pay markup on garden variety SUV's and cars is pure madness. I suppose it's the sign of the times as consumers have a ravenous appetite for shiny new things and are willing to make extremely poor financial decisions to satisfy their immediate cravings.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by W///

This is absolutely ridiculous, and a great way for them to be upside down on their loan 84 month loans or whatever they offer these days. I'd get it if it was something rare and collectible, but we're literally talking about mass produced SUV's here. And in no way would I consider a 12% mark up a "modest" premium.

There is a sucker born every minute. The only way to acquire a vehicle right now without getting hosed other than going the rare limited route is to lease under MSRP for buy rate money factor for 36 months or less and a decent residual. Some are speculating that we will see a new car shortage for the next year or two. That means there is a higher chance that today's lease residual will be lower than the market ie the payout for the lease could be lower than the cars market residual value next year, which means you can sell the car and pocket some money. The reason this is preferable to financing is because you will have less exposure month-to-month, and a locked in residual should the economy tank in 36 months. I would even say that for this reason leasing a car might be more beneficial than buying used since the used market is a sellers market. New cars aren't seeing the steep depreciation that they normally do, while higher mileage cars still do despite the higher initial value. Take a look, 2020 cars are going for almost the same price as new 2021 cars in the secondary market. It's insane.

It will be hard to tell how easy it will be to unload the cars next year for profit, but again, the protective nature of the locked residual is what makes the leases so attractive.

I doubt a lot of people will agree since leases have an unfair stigma of "renting" vs owning. Take the ego out of the equation and do the math. It works. Disclaimer: it's easy to get a bad lease, most people barely understand how it works. Get educated, know what the numbers mean, don't focus on the monthly, and negotiate well. I unloaded my wife's lease a few weeks ago and got $2.5k over the payout. That was 7 months of "free use" of her car, or 20% off our out-of-pocket for the car.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by WCH

The Telluride has a lot more interior space than a X5. Don't get me wrong, a X5 or X7 is different than the Telluride but space wise the Telluride is much closer to a X7 if not a little bigger.

Nope, the X7 is far more spacious for passengers than the telluride/palisade. We ultimately went with an x7 at 14% off MSRP with rebates, etc. Plus you get the b58 which is worlds better than the NA GDI engine in the kia.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by jmg

There is a sucker born every minute. The only way to acquire a vehicle right now without getting hosed other than going the rare limited route is to lease under MSRP for buy rate money factor for 36 months or less and a decent residual. Some are speculating that we will see a new car shortage for the next year or two. That means there is a higher chance that today's lease residual will be lower than the market ie the payout for the lease could be lower than the cars market residual value next year, which means you can sell the car and pocket some money. The reason this is preferable to financing is because you will have less exposure month-to-month, and a locked in residual should the economy tank in 36 months. I would even say that for this reason leasing a car might be more beneficial than buying used since the used market is a sellers market. New cars aren't seeing the steep depreciation that they normally do, while higher mileage cars still do despite the higher initial value. Take a look, 2020 cars are going for almost the same price as new 2021 cars in the secondary market. It's insane.

It will be hard to tell how easy it will be to unload the cars next year for profit, but again, the protective nature of the locked residual is what makes the leases so attractive.

I doubt a lot of people will agree since leases have an unfair stigma of "renting" vs owning. Take the ego out of the equation and do the math. It works. Disclaimer: it's easy to get a bad lease, most people barely understand how it works. Get educated, know what the numbers mean, don't focus on the monthly, and negotiate well. I unloaded my wife's lease a few weeks ago and got $2.5k over the payout. That was 7 months of "free use" of her car, or 20% off our out-of-pocket for the car.

If you change cars every 3 years, leasing is better. If you keep cars 6-7 years then buying is better. If you change cars every 3 years you have other priorities than financial well being. It's just what one prioritizes in their decision making…IMHO.

I'd personally rather not be in debt for expenses, for others debt is fine…clearly if you're leasing then debt isn't a concern.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by FCX5

I'd personally rather not be in debt for expenses, for others debt is fine…clearly if you're leasing then debt isn't a concern.

Leasing can be a good tool for those that can afford it, but also be a false sense of security for those that don't. The irony of leasing is that it is more expensive in the long run, but also less expensive with regards to monthly payment.

So you are either financially stable enough to want the best options for owning a new car for only 3 years, or not financially stable enough to afford a higher monthly payment on a financed car that is cheaper in the long run.