[dinonz]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

The parts schematic is illustrating how we'd we the car in RHD form. Most of our UK cars were over to LH side stalk for indicators, by the 1980's.

Interesting - as the parts list at the bottom does say that there are parts to put the indicators on the right on a RHD too. My 79 and 83 Esprits are the only British cars I have now, but they're both LHD so the above diagram would make sense - but the 79 is in storage, and the 83 is in a thousand pieces being resto-modded so I can't look at either. Only other British cars I've had was a 69 Mini 1000 which was so long ago I cannot remember where the stalk was, and a 56 Sunbeam Tiger (genuine RHD model I believe) sitting in NZ, but that's hard to tell if it's a British or American car. Bit of both.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Interesting - as the parts list at the bottom does say that there are parts to put the indicators on the right on a RHD too. My 79 and 83 Esprits are the only British cars I have now, but they're both LHD so the above diagram would make sense - but the 79 is in storage, and the 83 is in a thousand pieces being resto-modded so I can't look at either. Only other British cars I've had was a 69 Mini 1000 which was so long ago I cannot remember where the stalk was, and a 56 Sunbeam Tiger (genuine RHD model I believe) sitting in NZ, but that's hard to tell if it's a British or American car. Bit of both.

And the Ferrari 328 followed the same patterns as most high volume manufacturers and just moved the whole column to the right side as is - even though the indicators are on a 3rd stalk separate from the lights/wipers, they remain on the left in RHD cars.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Only other British cars I've had was a 69 Mini 1000 which was so long ago I cannot remember where the stalk was,

BMC/British Leyland used to have indicators on the right and wipers on the left. I had a Triumph Dolomite Sprint 1976 built, and that had indicators on the right. We moved to indicators on the left stalk (from memory) in the 1980s.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

If you wanna prove a pt that should be almost self-evident (according to you), you shouldn't need to write several paragraphs w irrelevant info. Anyway, like I said, review the series of posts, you're the one making 100% assertions out of the gate whereas I'm just being cautious and merely assuming and asking, so who's wrong here?

Further, one just needs to check out the internet to see various cars, doesn't matter if you own 5,946 cars, cuz obviously you're a case in pt of quantity not equaling knowledge of pertinent facts since you're dead wrong but insist upon trying to cover your fragile ego for whatever reason. Stop it already.

Your response seems a little childish and petulant. But, keep attacking me if you wish - I really don't care.

Asking about your RHD car ownership was merely establishing the scope of your potential experience in the subject. But clearly, living in one country driving on one side of the road for your entire life to you is more valuable than having lived in multiple countries, driven and owned multiple cars from multiple sources with the steering wheels on both sides.

I'm only trying to dig into more information - you're only trying to attack me. So stop it already ok?

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Your response seems a little childish and petulant. But, keep attacking me if you wish - I really don't care.

Asking about your RHD car ownership was merely establishing the scope of your potential experience in the subject. But clearly, living in one country driving on one side of the road for your entire life to you is more valuable than having lived in multiple countries, driven and owned multiple cars from multiple sources with the steering wheels on both sides.

I'm only trying to dig into more information - you're only trying to attack me. So stop it already ok?

You should grow up, ironic. I never accused you of being wrong until your fragile ego decided to call me out when I'm merely asking questions, not like you so cocksure, not to mention being a blowhard and wrong on the topic you started. Yes, you must be the KING, most mileage and driven every type of vehicle imaginable. /s

Also, wrong on the assumption, I've driven on both sides...besides, that's really irrelevant as all one needs to do is just figure out where the stalks are...doesn't take any skill/exp. If you can't even see the error of your ways, forget about it. Big joke come in here and start claiming things are absolutely one way, gets offended outta nowhere and starts lashing out. LOL.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

You should grow up, ironic. I never accused you of being wrong until your fragile ego decided to call me out when I'm merely asking questions, not like you so cocksure, not to mention being a blowhard and wrong on the topic you started. Yes, you must be the KING, most mileage and driven every type of vehicle imaginable. /s

Also, wrong on the assumption, I've driven on both sides...besides, that's really irrelevant as all one needs to do is just figure out where the stalks are...doesn't take any skill/exp. If you can't even see the error of your ways, forget about it. Big joke come in here and start claiming things are absolutely one way, gets offended outta nowhere and starts lashing out. LOL.

I guess the old saying of Canadians being nice people is clearly wrong

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by dinonz

I guess the old saying of Canadians being nice people is clearly wrong

Hey! I'm VERY nice, like I said, please read again, I never pointed out you being wrong but rather you did that to me, even though your initial statement wasn't exactly correct. I even threw an olive branch giving you props on spotting the MX-5 for RHD. Not sure what else you want....but seeing you're from the Lone Star state, please don't shoot me w your various assortment of firearms lol.

Anyway, I think we both agree that ideally the signal stalk should be on the same side as where the wheel is...? I still do wonder which is the norm, now that there are clearly various examples of and exceptions to our 'theories' and 'assertions'.

Peace out.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Hey! I'm VERY nice, like I said, please read again, I never pointed out you being wrong but rather you did that to me, even though your initial statement wasn't exactly correct. I even threw an olive branch giving you props on spotting the MX-5 for RHD. Not sure what else you want....but seeing you're from the Lone Star state, please don't shoot me w your various assortment of firearms lol.

Anyway, I think we both agree that ideally the signal stalk should be on the same side as where the wheel is...? I still do wonder which is the norm, now that there are clearly various examples of and exceptions to our 'theories' and 'assertions'.

Peace out.

I'd ask you to read again too. Yes - I made a fairly absolute statement *based on having owned several cars in several countries from several other countries* - but turns out that despite that fairly broad experience I was wrong. I admitted that. Said we were both wrong, although you seem to absolve yourself from being wrong because you only suggested rather than stated?

I said you were wrong because well... you were. Wrong. Incorrect. Misguided. Misled. Mistaken? I don't know - but it was pretty easy for me to point out your assertion was incorrect because of experience with LHD and RHD BMWs - they did not follow the pattern of indicators on the same side as the wheel. Wasn't trying to prove you WRONG per se, but I could easily point out your assertion wasn't correct.

I agree totally that the indicator *should* be on the same side as the wheel, because for a manual transmission (the only cars I own) that allows changing gears *and* indicating at the same time, and I seem to be one of the few BMW drivers who actually use their indicators. But as you have pointed out with the MX-5, it's not based on country of manufacture, and as HighlandPete pointed out, British cars have their own unique way, it seems like it's a crap-shoot. For many mass produced vehicles it does follow the pattern I stated, but as you have proven it's not a fast rule.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by dinonz

I'd ask you to read again too. Yes - I made a fairly absolute statement *based on having owned several cars in several countries from several other countries* - but turns out that despite that fairly broad experience I was wrong. I admitted that. Said we were both wrong, although you seem to absolve yourself from being wrong because you only suggested rather than stated?

I said you were wrong because well... you were. Wrong. Incorrect. Misguided. Misled. Mistaken? I don't know - but it was pretty easy for me to point out your assertion was incorrect because of experience with LHD and RHD BMWs - they did not follow the pattern of indicators on the same side as the wheel. Wasn't trying to prove you WRONG per se, but I could easily point out your assertion wasn't correct.

I agree totally that the indicator *should* be on the same side as the wheel, because for a manual transmission (the only cars I own) that allows changing gears *and* indicating at the same time, and I seem to be one of the few BMW drivers who actually use their indicators. But as you have pointed out with the MX-5, it's not based on country of manufacture, and as HighlandPete pointed out, British cars have their own unique way, it seems like it's a crap-shoot. For many mass produced vehicles it does follow the pattern I stated, but as you have proven it's not a fast rule.

I had assumptions, meaning I'm not certain but that's what I know vs your absolute statement: there's a marked difference between the 2 stances. Just sayin'. Anyway, I really don't wanna get into all that again haha., Obviously there's some middle-ground as it's neither this or that so I'm genuinely curious as to what is the norm. Seems weird that some cars don't have the signal stalk near the driver's window as that's all I know.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by tranquility

This is getting OT, but I don't see the benefit in left foot braking at all, we're not driving go-karts. For the longest time I was wondering how come some cars were going at the same highway speed as me *w their brake lights on* but then I realized that they were probably riding their brake pedals (I'd hate to see their brake-related parts bills)! The travel for the left foot to reach the brake is longer vs the right not to mention the brain getting messed up since it's not intuitive at all. Sure, one can train themselves if they really, really want, like I could probably train myself to shift w my right hand in a LHD but does that mean it's the optimal way? This is already confusing enough for 2 pedals but what about 3 pedals, what happens in an emergency stop situation, heel-toe mash clutch and brake w the left foot? LOL. That's just asking for trouble.

Finally, there are some cars that stall when both brake and throttle are pressed, so that puts an end to that technique in those vehicles.

That's what I was talking about to take performance drive courses so you wouldn't do things like having your foot activating the brake pedal when half asleep when in left foot braking mode, oh boy! It QUICKENS your brake response time in an EMERGENCY situation if you can understand that.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Seems weird that some cars don't have the signal stalk near the driver's window as that's all I know.

My knowledge on this. Europe pretty much accepted the setups of the German LHD cars. Indicator to the left of the wheel. So when we got RHD 'conversions' (as they were in the beginning, like wipers sweeping across the driver's vision) we got the left-hand indicator. UK built cars, also selling into mainland Europe changed to the same setup. Common to drivers and simplified LHD/RHD production.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

That's what I was talking about to take performance drive courses so you wouldn't do things like having your foot activating the brake pedal when half asleep when in left foot braking mode, oh boy! It QUICKENS your brake response time in an EMERGENCY situation if you can understand that.

No, I don't understand that. The travel distance is usually longer for the left foot vs the right to the brake so how can that be physically possible? Also, it seems confusing for the brain and not intuitive. Finally, one can't ride the brake like one can 'ride' the gas, so unless one has the left foot near/over the brake, the right foot should always be able to get there faster.

I guess there may be 'some' benefit on a track when one anticipates a corner coming up to do whatever but otherwise it seems like it's just asking for trouble for all the reasons that I've stated in my previous post.

[Alfisti]

Again on the track the big advantage is trail braking, if you can master it. I struggle in sims let alone real life.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I had assumptions, meaning I'm not certain but that's what I know vs your absolute statement: there's a marked difference between the 2 stances. Just sayin'. Anyway, I really don't wanna get into all that again haha., Obviously there's some middle-ground as it's neither this or that so I'm genuinely curious as to what is the norm. Seems weird that some cars don't have the signal stalk near the driver's window as that's all I know.

Just out of interest, why are you not attacking ///d for his absolute statement, that has been proven woefully wrong? Why only me? Is it because he agreed with you?

Originally Posted by ///d

Everything is the same except the turn signal stalk, that's on the right side of the wheel in a RHD car.

Yes - all you know is they are near the drivers window. All I know is they are on the side that would be the drivers window in the home country where the car was designed. We've both been proven wrong.

We're each speaking from experience, I just feel my experience is a little broader having lived in 2 countries, and driven cars from different countries in different countries. Certainly "by the drivers window" is not the norm, as I can tell you from RHD BMWs in NZ, and as HighlandPete has stated regarding the UK.

The norm seems to be a crap shoot. There is no norm.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Just out of interest, why are you not attacking ///d for his absolute statement, that has been proven woefully wrong? Why only me? Is it because he agreed with you?



Yes - all you know is they are near the drivers window. All I know is they are on the side that would be the drivers window in the home country where the car was designed. We've both been proven wrong.

We're each speaking from experience, I just feel my experience is a little broader having lived in 2 countries, and driven cars from different countries in different countries. Certainly "by the drivers window" is not the norm, as I can tell you from RHD BMWs in NZ, and as HighlandPete has stated regarding the UK.

The norm seems to be a crap shoot. There is no norm.

I'm not attacking anyone, like I said, I only defended myself when you first accused me of being wrong. Anyway, I don't even remember the past posts and who said what....you really wanna dig up past stuff even though we are supposedly past that by now? I don't.


Anyway, back on more relevant topics....it would be puzzling if there isn't some kinda norm...who knows, maybe there isn't, but that just seems strange to me.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'm not attacking anyone, like I said, I only defended myself when you first accused me of being wrong. Anyway, I don't even remember the past posts and who said what....you really wanna dig up past stuff even though we are supposedly past that by now? I don't.


Anyway, back on more relevant topics....it would be puzzling if there isn't some kinda norm...who knows, maybe there isn't, but that just seems strange to me.

That's a bit of bullshit - you attacked me for saying ///d was wrong, because you thought the same as him.

Our very first interaction was you thinking I was wrong because of your limited experience of everything being on one side. I mentioned variations because of manufacturers (Honda as you mentioned) having design bases in different countries. That's when you got all stupid and started attacking me for my "absolute" when there were exceptions.

The fact you don't remember doesn't diminish your past stupidity.

Actually, I find it puzzling that you find it puzzling that there isn't some kind of norm. Really? Like there's an normal currency for the world? Normal temperature measure? Normal distance measure? Normal weight measure?

Is there anything "normal" in this world???

[///d]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Just out of interest, why are you not attacking ///d for his absolute statement, that has been proven woefully wrong? Why only me? Is it because he agreed with you?



Yes - all you know is they are near the drivers window. All I know is they are on the side that would be the drivers window in the home country where the car was designed. We've both been proven wrong.

We're each speaking from experience, I just feel my experience is a little broader having lived in 2 countries, and driven cars from different countries in different countries. Certainly "by the drivers window" is not the norm, as I can tell you from RHD BMWs in NZ, and as HighlandPete has stated regarding the UK.

The norm seems to be a crap shoot. There is no norm.

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'm not attacking anyone, like I said, I only defended myself when you first accused me of being wrong. Anyway, I don't even remember the past posts and who said what....you really wanna dig up past stuff even though we are supposedly past that by now? I don't.


Anyway, back on more relevant topics....it would be puzzling if there isn't some kinda norm...who knows, maybe there isn't, but that just seems strange to me.

Originally Posted by dinonz

That's a bit of bullshit - you attacked me for saying ///d was wrong, because you thought the same as him.

Our very first interaction was you thinking I was wrong because of your limited experience of everything being on one side. I mentioned variations because of manufacturers (Honda as you mentioned) having design bases in different countries. That's when you got all stupid and started attacking me for my "absolute" when there were exceptions.

The fact you don't remember doesn't diminish your past stupidity.

Actually, I find it puzzling that you find it puzzling that there isn't some kind of norm. Really? Like there's an normal currency for the world? Normal temperature measure? Normal distance measure? Normal weight measure?

Is there anything "normal" in this world???

WHO.FUCKING.CARES?!

Both of you have been going back and forth over this stupid fucking topic like a couple of damn preteen girls.

Does it honestly matter what side the turn signals are on? No. it doesn't.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by dinonz

That's a bit of bullshit - you attacked me for saying ///d was wrong, because you thought the same as him.

Our very first interaction was you thinking I was wrong because of your limited experience of everything being on one side. I mentioned variations because of manufacturers (Honda as you mentioned) having design bases in different countries. That's when you got all stupid and started attacking me for my "absolute" when there were exceptions.

The fact you don't remember doesn't diminish your past stupidity.

Actually, I find it puzzling that you find it puzzling that there isn't some kind of norm. Really? Like there's an normal currency for the world? Normal temperature measure? Normal distance measure? Normal weight measure?

Is there anything "normal" in this world???

Just when I thought you were over this you come back, are you really that insecure??? You really lack tact, AGAIN, if you look back at the comments, you were 100% WRONG because you made an ABSOLUTE statement from the get-go! You were wrong first and you were the only one wrong because I NEVER made an absolute statement - you were the cocksure one vs I was making assumptions. The funny thing is that you then have the audacity to call ME 'wrong' because I was questioning you about it. Now you're throwing around insults and swearing because you simply can't handle being told that you actually don't know much about this topic: how immature and how much of an inferiority complex do you have, esp on such an insignificant topic? What a big joke.

Congrats on being the first poster I need to block on this forum. What a piece of work you are smh.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by ///d

WHO.FUCKING.CARES?!

Both of you have been going back and forth over this stupid fucking topic like a couple of damn preteen girls.

Does it honestly matter what side the turn signals are on? No. it doesn't.

Whoa, don't drag me in w that guy. I'm not getting all worked up like him.

...and ofc it does matter for some semblance of uniformity to avoid confusion/reduce safety issues when trying out different cars, e.g. how would you like it if some carmaker decided to not have a turning stalk and instead put them on the armrest?

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by ///d

Does it honestly matter what side the turn signals are on? No. it doesn't.

It can matter to manual drivers who like to use their indicators. If they're on the same side of the wheel then it's an easy matter to be changing down through the gears, and flick the indicator on with the other hand still on the wheel.

I just remember being frustrated driving my BMWs in NZ where the indicators were on the same side as the gear lever - made it slightly more tricky.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by dinonz

I just remember being frustrated driving my BMWs in NZ where the indicators were on the same side as the gear lever - made it slightly more tricky.

It's really not a big deal at all, even with MT. We've had this combination for decades. The tricky time was in the transition period, when we still had more vehicles with the indicator on the R/H side of the wheel. I remember at one time owning and driving one of each, both MT. Much better when we had virtually all vehicles with the indicator on the L/H side of the wheel.

In fact some in the UK, would argue that it is safer, as you keep one hand firmly on the wheel, while the shifter hand can do both functions. There is some merit in that viewpoint, and one I tend to agree with.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It's really not a big deal at all, even with MT. We've had this combination for decades. The tricky time was in the transition period, when we still had more vehicles with the indicator on the R/H side of the wheel. I remember at one time owning and driving one of each, both MT. Much better when we had virtually all vehicles with the indicator on the L/H side of the wheel.

In fact some in the UK, would argue that it is safer, as you keep one hand firmly on the wheel, while the shifter hand can do both functions. There is some merit in that viewpoint, and one I tend to agree with.

I guess I found it frustrating, possibly because it was different to what I was used to when I switched from Japanese to my first BMW, but also because it required extra hand movements - I don't take my hand off the wheel to indicate, I merely extend the forefinger and tap the indicator if its on the opposite side to the gear lever. If it's on the same side, I'm usually changing down well before time to indicate, so it requires moving that hand to indicate - so I'm not sure I'd agree with the argument that it's any safer. Just what you're used to I guess.