[magmd]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

What's your solution to all this, or do you really not see a problem here? I'm honestly interested in hearing the alternate argument.

1. Create a legal format for these individuals to actually attain legal status without the fear of being deported or persecuted.
2. Provide them with basic life sustaining rights. Ability to seek medical attention, legal counsel, ability to obtain license/insurance to drive legally...how can they go to work, take care of kids, improve themselves if they are denied all of these?
3. If you are going to restrict influx of Latin American immigrants, why lack of restriction of European immigrants?
4. If we need to battle so heavily to strengthen the US/Mexico border, why does no one ever address the influx of illegals from the Canadian/US border. Oh wait...because nobody can tell them apart from other caucasians.
5. Stop making this a Mexican problem. Its an illegal alien problem. Many of the immigrants are from all over central and south america, and middle east countries. Yet, many say its the Mexicans that are rallying and making a big fuss.
6. Allow for their children to go get an education, how else are they supposed to improve themselves to be more productive members of this society?
7. Americans so easily fight for human rights in other countries...send in our troops, create wars, start fundraising campaigns---in all spending millions/billions. But yet, many cannot see that there is a human rights problem right here! Instead, the solution that many people state is to deny them EVERYTHING--all services, because they do not deserve them, and we can't spare the money.
8. Focus legal action towards companies, and employers that perpetuate the problem by hiring cheap labor and turning their cheek when it comes down to verify whether the workers are documented or not.
9. Stop blaming these people for the problems of our country. They obviously have no say. They do not have no direct influence on the laws passed in this country. How can they affect how education and medical systems are governed in this entire country?
10. America is a great country of opportunity. It will always attract individuals that have no real opportunity in their native country. If we can create a format that will allow people to transition here legally...then we can more humanely control the influx. In the meantime, we cannot ignore those which are already here...we cannot just simply deport them back, kill them off, deny them humane treatment, and deny them all opportunity. Because if we do...what do you expect. They will find ways to revolt...as historically all human beings have.

[MB330]

Originally Posted by DaveO

The only reason these people are being called "illegal immigrants" is because of an artificial limit on immigration. These people are starving for work and money and thats why they are coming regardless of what border patrol there is. The same thing happened when there was the irish potatoe famine, millions of them came over cause they had shit left, except in that situation they were allowed in (from a legal standpoint).. Thats why they are very well adjusted americans right now. Because they came here, worked hard, settled down with their kids growing up and getting educated here.

The same shit would happen with mexicans if you would legally let them in, they'd work hard and then settle in and youd have a whole group of new americans that were identical in their hardwork and patriotism as any irish american or italian american.. Instead you classify them as something else, something like animals instead of people, so what u think the result is going to be. Of course they are going to fukin demonstrate on the streets and be more insular with their culture. they are under attack, thats what HUMANS do when they get attacked, they rallye together.

What this is really about more then anything is racism (there are no limits on immigration from northern europe, but severe limits on immigrants from latin america and the middle east.... hmmm...)

at this point the statue of liberty is kinda a joke.

What did you smoke, man????
There are LIMIT on European immigration, you have no clue what you are talking about.

I came to this country from one of the former communist country - boy, das they know how to secure their border. Do you know how many Germans was killed try to reach other side of the wall? More then 4000.

Don't start with me that "if you would legally let them in" because you have not even close idea what happen to me and my family when we apply for immigration. You have no clue how you own gaverments treat you after this, how all your relatives suffering for your decision.

You have to deserve enter this country, not sneek illigaly at night. And if you here - try your best to learn THIS COUNTRY LANGUAGE.

[Daveop]

Originally Posted by NIVKI89

What did you smoke, man????
There are LIMIT on European immigration, you have no clue what you are talking about.

I came to this country from one of the former communist country - boy, das they know how to secure their border. Do you know how many Germans was killed try to reach other side of the wall? More then 4000.

Don't start with me that "if you would legally let them in" because you have not even close idea what happen to me and my family when we apply for immigration. You have no clue how you own gaverments treat you after this, how all your relatives suffering for your decision.

You have to deserve enter this country, not sneek illigaly at night. And if you here - try your best to learn THIS COUNTRY LANGUAGE.

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING. lol. Whatever intolerance and cruelty you may have suffered was i'm sure at the hand of your own governement and not the USA's.

As I mentioned there are no limits on NORTHERN EUROPEAN countries, ie. the countries that are very white, very stable and america's best friends.

And my English is fine, thank you very much (i'd even say its better then yours).

Im sorry you've had a rough personal quest for immigration, but I suggest you re-read my post because I think the point flew completly over your head, because I think what you are trying to say might actually agree with what i'm saying.

Summary: Would you be happy if everyone in this country starts pointing at you and called you a "communist bastard" everyday.... do you think you would be a well adjusted individual if we did.

[deutschmann59]

Awesome response, magmd! I agree with pretty much everything you've said...believe it or not!

I just want to throw a few things on the table so we can talk about them more.

Someone mentioned that racism is the reason for the limited number of latinos allowed into the United States, because Europeans have no limit. I'll admit I don't know why this is. I suppose it could be racism, but someone would have to research further. If I had to guess, I'd say it is because of numbers. I'm just surmising here, but I'd probably say there is a greater percentage of Latinos trying to immigrate here rather than those of other countries. I don't support any kind of discrimination but I guess the people in charge felt there has to be a certain percentage allowed in and that's it. It doesn't seem fair, but then again, I don't know the actual reason is, but I hope it isn't racism.

Why don't you see Canadians jumping the border? Canada is a world financial power as is the United States. We're pretty much the same. But in countries south of the border, we know that's not the case. There are real problems down there and I don't blame anyone for wanting to get out.

As far as those already here, I agree they shouldn't be deported and should be allowed to stay, especially if they have jobs. But, you've got to look at it like they've "jumped ahead" in line, ahead of people waiting in line legally. Sure they've taken the risk to be here, and that's what most of the debate in Washington is about.

As far as schools and medical care, we've got an education and medical crisis for Americans, and we've got to concentrate on solving that first. The census bureau indicates that 45 million Americans lack basic health insurance. College tuition has skyrocketed. You've got to be practically a millionaire if you want to go to grad school. These are issues that should be resolved first, since we're the ones paying taxes.

As far as health and education for illegals, they are taken care of. I don't know of any hospital that would refuse a person in need (in fact, I think it's against the law). But what about doctors that have to pay malpractice insurance? What are they supposed to do? Exactly what's happening now. They're going broke. They're picking up and leaving.

And public education? According to my local newspaper, my local school district has 10,000 students in an ESL (English as a Second Language) program. So we are doing things, but at the expense of Americans, and that's what needs to be addressed.

[magmd]

Originally Posted by NIVKI89

What did you smoke, man????
There are LIMIT on European immigration, you have no clue what you are talking about.

I came to this country from one of the former communist country - boy, das they know how to secure their border. Do you know how many Germans was killed try to reach other side of the wall? More then 4000.

Don't start with me that "if you would legally let them in" because you have not even close idea what happen to me and my family when we apply for immigration. You have no clue how you own gaverments treat you after this, how all your relatives suffering for your decision.

You have to deserve enter this country, not sneek illigaly at night. And if you here - try your best to learn THIS COUNTRY LANGUAGE.

Wow...sorry to hear about your family. No one should be persecuted like that. And yes..certain European countries have tight restrictions on immigration...eastern European in particular. But, still...many make their way here via Canada and Mexico...not in the most legal fashion. Fortunately for them...many have moderate education from their native country and are very motivated to apply those skills/trades here in the US. Many illegals that are native from mexico and various central american countries do not have the best education from their native country. So, for many...they have no real skills/trades to build on when they get here. Its hard for them to learn English...when they cannot even read in their native language. So many must take work that is limited to physical labor. I am not saying we should condone illegal immigration, but we need to find a way to make this process...that is, taking care of those that are already here AND finding out a way to regulate future influx in a more realistic and humane fashion.

[MB330]

Originally Posted by DaveO

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING. lol. Whatever intolerance and cruelty you may have suffered was i'm sure at the hand of your own governement and not the USA's.

As I mentioned there are no limits on NORTHERN EUROPEAN countries, ie. the countries that are very white, very stable and america's best friends.

And my English is fine, thank you very much (i'd even say its better then yours).

Im sorry you've had a rough personal quest for immigration, but I suggest you re-read my post because I think the point flew completly over your head, because I think what you are trying to say might actually agree with what i'm saying.

Summary: Would you be happy if everyone in this country starts pointing at you and called you a "communist bastard" everyday.... do you think you would be a well adjusted individual if we did.

"communist bastard"!!!!

[Daveop]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

Someone mentioned that racism is the reason for the limited number of latinos allowed into the United States, because Europeans have no limit. I'll admit I don't know why this is. I suppose it could be racism, but someone would have to research further. If I had to guess, I'd say it is because of numbers. I'm just surmising here, but I'd probably say there is a greater percentage of Latinos trying to immigrate here rather than those of other countries. I don't support any kind of discrimination but I guess the people in charge felt there has to be a certain percentage allowed in and that's it. It doesn't seem fair, but then again, I don't know the actual reason is, but I hope it isn't racism.

Yes exactly. There has to be a percentage, we are realists. But when the quota limits for France, GB, Ireland, Italy go vastly unfilled every year but the ones for countries where people are jumping on each others back to get in are limited, does it seem like america actually wants these people to enter, or is just finding the best way it can limit the # while still claiming to be an "open nation".

Over the course of history the actual nationality of the people trying to get in has varried, at first it was northern europe, then southern europe, then eastern europe, then asia/mid.east, now latin america.

The part of this that smacks of racism is that the sever limits were never places very dramatically until recently with latin americans. WHy suddenly now? Is america "full" now.. or does it have to do with skin color. I know this country to well to be naiive to think this isn't a race issue.

Originally Posted by sharp1183

Why don't you see Canadians jumping the border? Canada is a world financial power as is the United States. We're pretty much the same. But in countries south of the border, we know that's not the case. There are real problems down there and I don't blame anyone for wanting to get out.

Exaclty, the specific people that want to enter this country at any given time in history is almost solely determined by economics. When Ireland went to shit, they all jumped ship and got over here. When the communist bloc set in, the people were clammoring to get in here. Now that latin america has some economic woes, they want in. What makes them any differnt from good old irish-americans or polish-americans ?

Originally Posted by sharp1183

As far as those already here, I agree they shouldn't be deported and should be allowed to stay, especially if they have jobs. But, you've got to look at it like they've "jumped ahead" in line, ahead of people waiting in line legally. Sure they've taken the risk to be here, and that's what most of the debate in Washington is about.

This point we definitly disagree on, and thats fine of course But I think its ok to jump the line when the line is arbitrary and completly without merit. Its like rosa parks, sure the law said black people had to sit in the back, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do, and not wait for the law to change first.

Originally Posted by sharp1183

As far as schools and medical care, we've got an education and medical crisis for Americans, and we've got to concentrate on solving that first. The census bureau indicates that 45 million Americans lack basic health insurance. College tuition has skyrocketed. You've got to be practically a millionaire if you want to go to grad school. These are issues that should be resolved first, since we're the ones paying taxes.

Your right, that is a big problem, and I work in an ER and I do see illegal immigrants every so often trying to game the system. But I see about 90% more bonafide 100% american citizens who are gaming the american healthcare system. They are the ones dragging things down the gutter and I see it as a completly different issue then the immigration issue. On a side note, it was about 2 weeks ago that I saw an illegal immigrant trying to get some free healthcare. However, we get about 3 US citizens a night trying to pull some shit.

[magmd]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

As far as health and education for illegals, they are taken care of. I don't know of any hospital that would refuse a person in need (in fact, I think it's against the law). But what about doctors that have to pay malpractice insurance? What are they supposed to do? Exactly what's happening now. They're going broke. They're picking up and leaving.

Sorry...I do not have more time to discuss this as I have to leave. You raise some very good points. But remember..its a whole country out there.

However, I will only respond to this one right now. I am a physician practicing in Los Angeles. Things are very different in Southern California than PA laws. Which is one of the problems that people are trying to address. It is not illegal everywhere to deny them services. The medical system here....if you are an illegal alien, you can only seek medical care from "county" hospital. These are medical facilities that cater to the uninsured...regardless of legal status. The closest county hospital to the US/Mexico border is Harbor/UCLA in Torrance California. That is a good 160 miles north of the border. All of the illegals in betwen...have to find resourcefull
ways of getting any help, and many are not successfull. Many fear going to any facility for fear of being deported or legally prosecuted. Is this the way is should be??

[magmd]

Your right, that is a big problem, and I work in an ER and I do see illegal immigrants every so often trying to game the system. But I see about 90% more bonafide 100% american citizens who are gaming the american healthcare system. They are the ones dragging things down the gutter and I see it as a completly different issue then the immigration issue. On a side note, it was about 2 weeks ago that I saw an illegal immigrant trying to get some free healthcare. However, we get about 3 US citizens a night trying to pull some shit.

Yep...I have seen many legal citizens pull up in their BMW/Mercedes Benz. Park in the Handicap zone...walk out of their car. Go to the ER...and present their government health assitance program info because they are of low resources.

[shimshimhada]

You guys are getting way too deep into this issue. I still say we should just build a ginormous wall with paintball machine gun turrets.

[deutschmann59]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

You guys are getting way too deep into this issue. I still say we should just build a ginormous wall with paintball machine gun turrets.

Damn, Shim...the world would be a much simpler place if you were in charge!

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

Damn, Shim...the world would be a much simpler place if you were in charge!

The employers of the illegals would be exiled from the USA, preferably to the country of where their illegals came from.

[FeeBear]

I what you Guys/Gals to remember 2 Quotes for me.

1) Hate is a learnt behavior. Children don’t care about color, creed or Sexual orientation. That is something they learn from the adults.
2) Learn from your History, if not you are doom to make the same mistake again.

America isn’t language, America isn’t a color, America is its people. I think a lot of you have forgotten that.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Emma Lazarus

How many of you angry people remember that Poem? Come on Shim, you seem very intelligent. Where did this poem come from? Come on Sharp1183, you seem to be angry and Patriotic do you know where this come from?

That my friends is on the Statue of Liberty, it greets people that used to come to Ellis Island along time ago. Have we forgotten?


Of course since TL_Boy can’t tell the difference Guatemalans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, etc I guess it doesn’t matter. Learn your History boys and girls remember the second quote. Shim, are you Japanese by any chance? If you are do you know what happened to Japanese-Americans during WW II? They “Americans” felt that they couldn’t trust the Japanese-American so they put them in camps and I am sure that they post armed guards every 35 feet. Yet we never did the same thing to the German-American or the Italy-Americans, interesting…. Maybe we needed TL_Boy around to tell the difference… Yet Black-American being treated like Second Class joined to defend a country that didn’t even want them. Learn your History. As a side note did you guys know that the US Government didn’t even issue an apology to the Japanese-Americans until President Clinton.


Also would all of you PLEASE Stop saying that just because you or your family learned English before our after you arrived somehow equate that to EVERYBODY FROM THAT COUNTRY did the same. I have been to many of an Italian neighborhood in Boston and heard and known may that have immigrated don’t know the language.


Now let us talk about the real issue, How many of you BMW Owners have lost their jobs to an Illegal immigrant? Anybody? Okay let me rephrase that, “How many people believe misery and chaos it is now solely because of Mexicans? Let me help you boys and girls out, that is exactly what the said about the Irish and Italian when the arrived to Boston and New York in the 18th and 19th Century and the Chinese in the Late 19th Century, Shim should we have had the SS back then right Shim?


If I wanted to be totally ignorant I could say the problem is the South and MidWest. Did you know that the NorthEast (New England, New York, New Jersey and PA and Maryland) pay the grand majority of the taxes into the US coffers and yet for every $1 we put into our Government, we up here only get between back .50 to .60 of it back, yet the rest of the US gets back $1.40 for every $1 they pay. So maybe the problem isn’t the Immigrants but the rest of the nation outside the NorthEast? But alas I am not ignorant and I know that although that the statements I stated although true isn’t the really problem.


The real problem is Corporate America. Yes, my fellow Americans it is Corporate America. Yet like most Americans, we seem to have the worst case of ADD in the world. Ladies and Gentlemen the jobs these people aren’t the ones you want or the majority of Americans want. I can’t ever remember American People standing on the corner waiting to work in the crops, like I see the Mexican do. Do you know why? It is called Welfare, the grand majority of American would rather be on that than working on the fields. Anybody want to refute that?
Yet somehow we have focus on them. The real problem is American corporation taking HIGH PAYING JOBS to foreign countries or do you fear and person whom mostly like can’t speak English taking a tech job away. I can see it now an Illegal immigrant answering the phones for Dell Computers in Texas. Wake up and focus, 100 of thousands of these jobs a year are being sent to India, China, Mexico, HELL EVEN BEING SENT TO IRELAND and all this because of cheap labor.


Yet, in some way I shouldn’t be surprised, we as a people have never been good at thinking for ourselves. We have for the most part been lemmings in life believing what we are told and never questioning what we learn. People like that have no place in our country today, people like our founding fathers, like Abe Lincoln, like Martin Luther King.



Of course we are Americans so we have the right to hate groups of people because they aren’t us. So please keep on teaching the next generation about hate. Also a simple fact that Sharp hasn’t realized, did you know Sharp that right now Hispanic are the largest minor group in America? Did you know that?



Fee

PS Shim and Vlad, as much outrage as you might feel about the National Anthem being translated into Spanish is crossing the Line, remember that 2 small points. 1) The National Anthem has been translated in ever language in the world at this time. 2) The most important Book in a lot of people life the Bible (Old and New Testament) is also translated into every language of the world.

[deutschmann59]

FeeBear, good post, and I agree with SOME of what you say, but for the record, I am not racist. I do not hate anybody. Sorry if anyone got that impression, but it isn't true. I believe in following the law, regardless if people think it's right or not, and that's why I've taken my stance the way I have. I've finished commenting on this issue.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by FeeBear

I what you Guys/Gals to remember 2 Quotes for me.

1) Hate is a learnt behavior. Children don’t care about color, creed or Sexual orientation. That is something they learn from the adults.
2) Learn from your History, if not you are doom to make the same mistake again.

America isn’t language, America isn’t a color, America is its people. I think a lot of you have forgotten that.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Emma Lazarus

How many of you angry people remember that Poem? Come on Shim, you seem very intelligent. Where did this poem come from? Come on Sharp1183, you seem to be angry and Patriotic do you know where this come from?

That my friends is on the Statue of Liberty, it greets people that used to come to Ellis Island along time ago. Have we forgotten?


Of course since TL_Boy can’t tell the difference Guatemalans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, etc I guess it doesn’t matter. Learn your History boys and girls remember the second quote. Shim, are you Japanese by any chance? If you are do you know what happened to Japanese-Americans during WW II? They “Americans” felt that they couldn’t trust the Japanese-American so they put them in camps and I am sure that they post armed guards every 35 feet. Yet we never did the same thing to the German-American or the Italy-Americans, interesting…. Maybe we needed TL_Boy around to tell the difference… Yet Black-American being treated like Second Class joined to defend a country that didn’t even want them. Learn your History. As a side note did you guys know that the US Government didn’t even issue an apology to the Japanese-Americans until President Clinton.


Also would all of you PLEASE Stop saying that just because you or your family learned English before our after you arrived somehow equate that to EVERYBODY FROM THAT COUNTRY did the same. I have been to many of an Italian neighborhood in Boston and heard and known may that have immigrated don’t know the language.


Now let us talk about the real issue, How many of you BMW Owners have lost their jobs to an Illegal immigrant? Anybody? Okay let me rephrase that, “How many people believe misery and chaos it is now solely because of Mexicans? Let me help you boys and girls out, that is exactly what the said about the Irish and Italian when the arrived to Boston and New York in the 18th and 19th Century and the Chinese in the Late 19th Century, Shim should we have had the SS back then right Shim?


If I wanted to be totally ignorant I could say the problem is the South and MidWest. Did you know that the NorthEast (New England, New York, New Jersey and PA and Maryland) pay the grand majority of the taxes into the US coffers and yet for every $1 we put into our Government, we up here only get between back .50 to .60 of it back, yet the rest of the US gets back $1.40 for every $1 they pay. So maybe the problem isn’t the Immigrants but the rest of the nation outside the NorthEast? But alas I am not ignorant and I know that although that the statements I stated although true isn’t the really problem.


The real problem is Corporate America. Yes, my fellow Americans it is Corporate America. Yet like most Americans, we seem to have the worst case of ADD in the world. Ladies and Gentlemen the jobs these people aren’t the ones you want or the majority of Americans want. I can’t ever remember American People standing on the corner waiting to work in the crops, like I see the Mexican do. Do you know why? It is called Welfare, the grand majority of American would rather be on that than working on the fields. Anybody want to refute that?
Yet somehow we have focus on them. The real problem is American corporation taking HIGH PAYING JOBS to foreign countries or do you fear and person whom mostly like can’t speak English taking a tech job away. I can see it now an Illegal immigrant answering the phones for Dell Computers in Texas. Wake up and focus, 100 of thousands of these jobs a year are being sent to India, China, Mexico, HELL EVEN BEING SENT TO IRELAND and all this because of cheap labor.


Yet, in some way I shouldn’t be surprised, we as a people have never been good at thinking for ourselves. We have for the most part been lemmings in life believing what we are told and never questioning what we learn. People like that have no place in our country today, people like our founding fathers, like Abe Lincoln, like Martin Luther King.



Of course we are Americans so we have the right to hate groups of people because they aren’t us. So please keep on teaching the next generation about hate. Also a simple fact that Sharp hasn’t realized, did you know Sharp that right now Hispanic are the largest minor group in America? Did you know that?



Fee

PS Shim and Vlad, as much outrage as you might feel about the National Anthem being translated into Spanish is crossing the Line, remember that 2 small points. 1) The National Anthem has been translated in ever language in the world at this time. 2) The most important Book in a lot of people life the Bible (Old and New Testament) is also translated into every language of the world.

I am Korean. Your post is way too long for something with a short attention span like me, so I skimmed through it. I saw this C-Span thing on the Japanese camps, and the children who were in the camps said they were like summer camps.

That has nothing to do with anything though.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

FeeBear, good post, and I agree with SOME of what you say, but for the record, I am not racist. I do not hate anybody. Sorry if anyone got that impression, but it isn't true. I believe in following the law, regardless if people think it's right or not, and that's why I've taken my stance the way I have. I've finished commenting on this issue.

I am racist against illegals, regardless of their race.

[ase2dais]

Hitler had a solution once, but he got caught! I hope no one tries that again, at least in my neighborhood

Originally Posted by nine4surfah

Gas price are horrendous and I'm sure by mid summer prices will be astronomically high. On May 1st Mexicans are planning another walk-out and boycott on anything "American". Our National anthem has been "remixed" and is now spanish. Finally Mexico is just about ready to legalize "personal possesion" of controlled substances such as Marijuana, Ecstasy, Cocaine and Heroin despite the the combined efforts with the U.S. to fight drug trafficing.......It's going to be a long hot summer for 2006

[Lost Rider]

I wonder how the Indians felt when we started "settling" our country.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by ChiTown

I wonder how the Indians felt when we started "settling" our country.

Exactly, we can't have the illegals settling our country now, can we?

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by magmd

1. Create a legal format for these individuals to actually attain legal status without the fear of being deported or persecuted. Its called filing for entry into the US. Most of us immigrants have gone through this process. If they want to be legal, go through what most of us had to
2. Provide them with basic life sustaining rights. Ability to seek medical attention, legal counsel, ability to obtain license/insurance to drive legally...how can they go to work, take care of kids, improve themselves if they are denied all of these? See answer for 1.
3. If you are going to restrict influx of Latin American immigrants, why lack of restriction of European immigrants? Because unfortunately, because of the close proximity of Mexico and other Latin American countries, the problem lies with Hispanics. I feel the same way about illegal chinese immigration too.
4. If we need to battle so heavily to strengthen the US/Mexico border, why does no one ever address the influx of illegals from the Canadian/US border. Oh wait...because nobody can tell them apart from other caucasians. There is no proof that illegal immigration from Canada, although there is illegal immigration, makes up even a tiny fraction of the illegal immigration from the south of the border. Also, Minutemen are very active on the northern borders as well.
5. Stop making this a Mexican problem. Its an illegal alien problem. Many of the immigrants are from all over central and south america, and middle east countries. Yet, many say its the Mexicans that are rallying and making a big fuss. I agree that this is an illegal immigration problem and not a Mexican problem. I don't care if you are Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Jamaican, French, etc etc.... if you are illegally here in the US, then you are illegally here in the US. There are thousands of illegal immigrants that stem from other countries than Mexico. Matter in fact, there was a recent bust on an Indian group in Canada that was smuggling Indian and Pakistani nationals into the US.
6. Allow for their children to go get an education, how else are they supposed to improve themselves to be more productive members of this society? They do provide for education? In some areas they do have Spanish only schools which is a problem because unless they learn to speak English they are not going to be very productive. Unless you are asking us to learn Spanish.
7. Americans so easily fight for human rights in other countries...send in our troops, create wars, start fundraising campaigns---in all spending millions/billions. But yet, many cannot see that there is a human rights problem right here! Instead, the solution that many people state is to deny them EVERYTHING--all services, because they do not deserve them, and we can't spare the money. I have no problem fighting for human rights for those illegal immigrants...IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. We don't have money. Dude, where have you been? Welfare, which is for US CITIZENS, is a drain on the US economy and in some areas, the local governments are unable to provide the necessary services to those on welfare.
8. Focus legal action towards companies, and employers that perpetuate the problem by hiring cheap labor and turning their cheek when it comes down to verify whether the workers are documented or not. I agree that employers should be held more liable for hiring illegals. However, that just does what you have been complaining about...denying illegals jobs and money.
9. Stop blaming these people for the problems of our country. They obviously have no say. They do not have no direct influence on the laws passed in this country. How can they affect how education and medical systems are governed in this entire country? How can they affect education and medical systems? Lets see, by adding on to the already overburded education and medical system? Did you think about that? Of course they have direct influence. By Law, hospitals cannot turn away ppl in need of emergency care and you bet your bottom dollar illegals use emergency services.
10. America is a great country of opportunity. It will always attract individuals that have no real opportunity in their native country. If we can create a format that will allow people to transition here legally...then we can more humanely control the influx. In the meantime, we cannot ignore those which are already here...we cannot just simply deport them back, kill them off, deny them humane treatment, and deny them all opportunity. Because if we do...what do you expect. They will find ways to revolt...as historically all human beings have. We do have a system. Thousands of people migrate to this country LEGALLY. I WAS ONE OF THEM. We cannot kill them but we sure can deport them. They are not here legally. Not legally means against the law. STOP TRYING TO MAKE THEIR PROBLEMS MY PROBLEMS. We already have enough of our own.

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[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by ChiTown

I wonder how the Indians felt when we started "settling" our country.

we didnt quite "settle" this country. We CONQUERED this country.

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by FeeBear

I what you Guys/Gals to remember 2 Quotes for me.

1) Hate is a learnt behavior. Children don’t care about color, creed or Sexual orientation. That is something they learn from the adults.
2) Learn from your History, if not you are doom to make the same mistake again.

America isn’t language, America isn’t a color, America is its people. I think a lot of you have forgotten that.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Emma Lazarus

How many of you angry people remember that Poem? Come on Shim, you seem very intelligent. Where did this poem come from? Come on Sharp1183, you seem to be angry and Patriotic do you know where this come from?

That my friends is on the Statue of Liberty, it greets people that used to come to Ellis Island along time ago. Have we forgotten?


Of course since TL_Boy can’t tell the difference Guatemalans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, etc I guess it doesn’t matter. Learn your History boys and girls remember the second quote. Shim, are you Japanese by any chance? If you are do you know what happened to Japanese-Americans during WW II? They “Americans” felt that they couldn’t trust the Japanese-American so they put them in camps and I am sure that they post armed guards every 35 feet. Yet we never did the same thing to the German-American or the Italy-Americans, interesting…. Maybe we needed TL_Boy around to tell the difference… Yet Black-American being treated like Second Class joined to defend a country that didn’t even want them. Learn your History. As a side note did you guys know that the US Government didn’t even issue an apology to the Japanese-Americans until President Clinton.


Also would all of you PLEASE Stop saying that just because you or your family learned English before our after you arrived somehow equate that to EVERYBODY FROM THAT COUNTRY did the same. I have been to many of an Italian neighborhood in Boston and heard and known may that have immigrated don’t know the language.


Now let us talk about the real issue, How many of you BMW Owners have lost their jobs to an Illegal immigrant? Anybody? Okay let me rephrase that, “How many people believe misery and chaos it is now solely because of Mexicans? Let me help you boys and girls out, that is exactly what the said about the Irish and Italian when the arrived to Boston and New York in the 18th and 19th Century and the Chinese in the Late 19th Century, Shim should we have had the SS back then right Shim?


If I wanted to be totally ignorant I could say the problem is the South and MidWest. Did you know that the NorthEast (New England, New York, New Jersey and PA and Maryland) pay the grand majority of the taxes into the US coffers and yet for every $1 we put into our Government, we up here only get between back .50 to .60 of it back, yet the rest of the US gets back $1.40 for every $1 they pay. So maybe the problem isn’t the Immigrants but the rest of the nation outside the NorthEast? But alas I am not ignorant and I know that although that the statements I stated although true isn’t the really problem.


The real problem is Corporate America. Yes, my fellow Americans it is Corporate America. Yet like most Americans, we seem to have the worst case of ADD in the world. Ladies and Gentlemen the jobs these people aren’t the ones you want or the majority of Americans want. I can’t ever remember American People standing on the corner waiting to work in the crops, like I see the Mexican do. Do you know why? It is called Welfare, the grand majority of American would rather be on that than working on the fields. Anybody want to refute that?
Yet somehow we have focus on them. The real problem is American corporation taking HIGH PAYING JOBS to foreign countries or do you fear and person whom mostly like can’t speak English taking a tech job away. I can see it now an Illegal immigrant answering the phones for Dell Computers in Texas. Wake up and focus, 100 of thousands of these jobs a year are being sent to India, China, Mexico, HELL EVEN BEING SENT TO IRELAND and all this because of cheap labor.


Yet, in some way I shouldn’t be surprised, we as a people have never been good at thinking for ourselves. We have for the most part been lemmings in life believing what we are told and never questioning what we learn. People like that have no place in our country today, people like our founding fathers, like Abe Lincoln, like Martin Luther King.



Of course we are Americans so we have the right to hate groups of people because they aren’t us. So please keep on teaching the next generation about hate. Also a simple fact that Sharp hasn’t realized, did you know Sharp that right now Hispanic are the largest minor group in America? Did you know that?



Fee

PS Shim and Vlad, as much outrage as you might feel about the National Anthem being translated into Spanish is crossing the Line, remember that 2 small points. 1) The National Anthem has been translated in ever language in the world at this time. 2) The most important Book in a lot of people life the Bible (Old and New Testament) is also translated into every language of the world.

The Bible was translated...so what? The Bible does not belong to one country or language. Bad analogy dude. And show me where the National Anthem has been translated in every language. LOL