[Grail05]

DAMN cant see this at work...

[Templar]

Originally Posted by SpmnE9zero

You are the one getting confused.
No one is saying the girl got punched in the face.
I quoted the individual who claimed he got punched in the face.

I am 30 with a 2 year old daughter and another one the way. I could never inflict physical pain on my children to this degree, ever! Swat on the ass to get attention and let you know business.... sure. No need to beat the ever living hell out of her! Can you imagine if she really did something wrong?
I agree that the younger generation is going to see more of an issue with this as the older generations were much more physical with punishments. However, even this is excessive.

I read closer into the thread and saw the confusion where the whole "punched in the face" bit came from. That was my bad.

Doesn't change my opinion though... Where is the line? None of us know what the results of this beating were. Was she physically harmed? Obviously... Was she bruised, broken bones, more long term damage? No idea... What you call "beating the living hell out of her" is different for everyone. Smacking in the rear end with a belt isn't getting the living hell beat out to a lot of people.

I think a lot of this is just provided for shock value. A lot of people also don't realize the length of time. The video in it's totality only runs for 7 minutes, which isn't all of the time showing her being beaten either. Because it is shocking, it makes it feel like it goes on forever...

I believe the punishment should fit the crime. I don't think it did in this case, and I do believe it was a bit excessive, which leads me to believe that this happened more than once. THAT is the real issue, not just this one event. Take into consideration the amount of times this probably happened, then we probably have a case for abuse.

When I was a kid, I got smacked in the ass a few times with a belt because I stole something from a store while I was out shopping with my parents. They found out when I got home, and smacked me for it. I never stole again, quickly learning it was wrong. That was the only time I was ever hit like that. Does that make my parents child abusers? I don't think so, but some of you probably will think so, also probably the same group that I think are kids on these forums and probably aren't the best people to ask for an opinion.

[yakev724]

Originally Posted by Gregxi

The girl and mother are on the Today show with Matt Lauer
This happened 7 years ago, she released it on youtube because she felt that was the only way it could go viral.
The Dad is already getting harassed by news crews

Mother doesn't deserve any less punishment than the father.

[SpmnE9zero]

Originally Posted by Templar

I read closer into the thread and saw the confusion where the whole "punched in the face" bit came from. That was my bad.

Doesn't change my opinion though... Where is the line? None of us know what the results of this beating were. Was she physically harmed? Obviously... Was she bruised, broken bones, more long term damage? No idea... What you call "beating the living hell out of her" is different for everyone. Smacking in the rear end with a belt isn't getting the living hell beat out to a lot of people.

I think a lot of this is just provided for shock value. A lot of people also don't realize the length of time. The video in it's totality only runs for 7 minutes, which isn't all of the time showing her being beaten either. Because it is shocking, it makes it feel like it goes on forever...

I believe the punishment should fit the crime. I don't think it did in this case, and I do believe it was a bit excessive, which leads me to believe that this happened more than once. THAT is the real issue, not just this one event. Take into consideration the amount of times this probably happened, then we probably have a case for abuse.

When I was a kid, I got smacked in the ass a few times with a belt because I stole something from a store while I was out shopping with my parents. They found out when I got home, and smacked me for it. I never stole again, quickly learning it was wrong. That was the only time I was ever hit like that. Does that make my parents child abusers? I don't think so, but some of you probably will think so, also probably the same group that I think are kids on these forums and probably aren't the best people to ask for an opinion.

I can agree to some of your statements here, however, you make 7 minutes seem like it is a few seconds. A 7 minute belt beating (as hard as the dude can swing mind you) is an eternity to a young child who is being slapped with it by the man who is supposed to always be there for their child when they need guidance and support. Then to hear your father yell the things to her he was is just terrible.

Different points of view to different folks, bus this is pure abuse no doubt about it!

[Templar]

Originally Posted by SpmnE9zero

I can agree to some of your statements here, however, you make 7 minutes seem like it is a few seconds. A 7 minute belt beating (as hard as the dude can swing mind you) is an eternity to a young child who is being slapped with it by the man who is supposed to always be there for their child when they need guidance and support. Then to hear your father yell the things to her he was is just terrible.

Different points of view to different folks, bus this is pure abuse no doubt about it!

I don't agree. I don't think you can determine if he was swinging as hard as he could by watching the video.

The comments the wife made were worse than his I feel...

I think it could be a lot worse, and I think it's being blown a little out of proportion. Times are changing though, and statistically it shows with how children act in today's world. Lots of spoiled little brats out there that could use a swift kick in the ass. Moreso today than before.

Like I said, nothing will happen to the guy anyway, so the point in arguing is moot. Guidance and support is one thing, but you're also supposed to discipline a child when they do something wrong. Telling them "don't do that again" only works for so long. I don't condone abuse, but I just think this whole thing is being blown way out of proportion. Besides the fact that much worse goes on to other people every day.

Now every time a little brat gets a spanking, they are going to record it and put it on the internet. The can of worms is officially open, because of the media and other people making such a huge deal out of this.

The reason I am arguing the point is mainly because you can't say "different opinions" when you're discussing child abuse. It's either child abuse or it's not. And it's not up to us to decide, no matter what our points of view are. It's up to the law of that town/county/state. We can have opinions, but our opinions don't matter if it isn't deemed child abuse by law.

Just to make it clear before people jump on me for being an advocate for this guy... I do think what he did was excessive in regards to the "crime" the girl comitted. I do not think it is as bad as people are making it sound though. And I know for a fact he won't serve any jail time for it, regardless of whether it would be determined that it was in fact child abuse.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by Templar

.

Please don't have kids....ever.

[michaelthepsycho]

What? This is child abuse? The kid was too fucking dumb for not following instructions. A man with a belt is beating your ass for not bending over. You think sitting up will make the whoop-ass session shorter? Dumb.

This dude's going to get his share in prison. Judges always think they're invincible, God-complex pricks. Dumb father; dumb child, What do you know?

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Please don't have kids....ever.

Thank you for your intelligent and insightful response. I'll try to play nice, as you're probably a member of the group I was referring to (if you've even read any of my posts).

What is your exact problem with my thoughts? You think I should coddle my children when they do something wrong? And just hope and pray that maybe taking away their XBOX will make them learn the errors of their ways?

Spoiled rotten...

[SpmnE9zero]

Originally Posted by Templar

I don't agree. I don't think you can determine if he was swinging as hard as he could by watching the video.

The comments the wife made were worse than his I feel...

I think it could be a lot worse, and I think it's being blown a little out of proportion. Times are changing though, and statistically it shows with how children act in today's world. Lots of spoiled little brats out there that could use a swift kick in the ass. Moreso today than before.

Like I said, nothing will happen to the guy anyway, so the point in arguing is moot. Guidance and support is one thing, but you're also supposed to discipline a child when they do something wrong. Telling them "don't do that again" only works for so long. I don't condone abuse, but I just think this whole thing is being blown way out of proportion. Besides the fact that much worse goes on to other people every day.

Now every time a little brat gets a spanking, they are going to record it and put it on the internet. The can of worms is officially open, because of the media and other people making such a huge deal out of this.

The reason I am arguing the point is mainly because you can't say "different opinions" when you're discussing child abuse. It's either child abuse or it's not. And it's not up to us to decide, no matter what our points of view are. It's up to the law of that town/county/state. We can have opinions, but our opinions don't matter if it isn't deemed child abuse by law.

Just to make it clear before people jump on me for being an advocate for this guy... I do think what he did was excessive in regards to the "crime" the girl comitted. I do not think it is as bad as people are making it sound though. And I know for a fact he won't serve any jail time for it, regardless of whether it would be determined that it was in fact child abuse.

The mere fact that you are basing your opinion partly on this "Besides the fact that much worse goes on to other people every day." and this "I do think what he did was excessive in regards to the "crime" the girl comitted" really put question in my mind of whether or not you are sane.

You are judging what happened to this girl, by worse actions that have taken place to other individuals? What in the hell kind of sense does that make? Do you hear yourself??? REALLY?

Then you quote the word "crime" as you seem to agree with it, SHE IS A LITTLE GIRL WHO GOT CAUGHT DOWNLOADING A GAME ON A COMPUTER!!!!!!!!

Seriously man, you seem to be playing devils advocate here as you also claim "I don't think you can determine if he was swinging as hard as he could by watching the video." You are right, you cant tell, but I can tell (because I am not an idiot) that he is REALLY HURTING that little girl!

So you disagree with sitting your children down and having a discussion with them about wrong and right, so that you can instead, unleash a belt upon their body, leaving both temporary and PERMANENT scarring on them? Yeah that will get them to listen up. They may listen in front of you, but will disobey you every chance they get because they will HATE YOU!

Again, I agree that children are not always going to listen to everything you tell them no matter how many times you drill something into their head. They are going to make mistakes. The difference here is I am willing to let them make the small mistakes in life and learn from them. Sitting them down and discussing things with them, not inflicting bodily harm to them that is far worse than the repercussion of the mistake they made in the first place. What the hell good does that do?

My daughter is probably one of the best behaved kids you will ever meet in your life. She knows what "NO" means and she knows when to sit still. Why because good parenting results in well behaved children (most of the time). Now if they decide to go astray later on, then they will learn from their mistakes and I will be here to support them and give them guidance. Notice I didnt say "BAIL THEM OUT", I will give them guidance.

You have to be a miserable SOB to take rage out on a kid like that!

[Gregxi]

Originally Posted by Templar

I don't agree. I don't think you can determine if he was swinging as hard as he could by watching the video.

The comments the wife made were worse than his I feel...

I think it could be a lot worse, and I think it's being blown a little out of proportion. Times are changing though, and statistically it shows with how children act in today's world. Lots of spoiled little brats out there that could use a swift kick in the ass. Moreso today than before.




.

The facts are this was not the first time this happened, hence the need for her to hide a video camera. She was all alone without any help from anybody you do not treat anyone like that.
I am sure she has serious emotional issues because of this abuse.

You are an idiot, he swung that belt with complete abandon and very easily could have broke her ribs with one of those swings.
Why don't you make an appointment for a vasectomy today

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Gregxi

The facts are this was not the first time this happened, hence the need for her to hide a video camera. She was all alone without any help from anybody you do not treat anyone like that.
I am sure she has serious emotional issues because of this abuse.

You are an idiot, he swung that belt with complete abandon and very easily could have broke her ribs with one of those swings.
Why don't you make an appointment for a vasectomy today

No, you're wrong. The physics of that are pretty impossible. Without a straight punch it wouldn't have broken anything, besides the fact that he hit her in the rear and not her chest. I guess you need an anatomy lesson. Don't they teach that in high school? I figured you would have learned that by now.

What happens when discussions don't work? How many times do you need to have a discussion with your kid not to do something for them to stop doing it? 10? 50? 100? I'm not advocating beating the shit out of someone, but you all make it sound like a smack is total 100% child abuse and it is horrible. I said what was done was excessive. You misunderstood my use of quotations too. It was only a "crime" in his eyes. Downloading a game online isn't a crime to everyone but to him it was, that's why I used it in quotations.

I do agree he has some issues.

What I do not agree with, is that every instance of a swift smack on the butt for something that has been repeatedly discussed as wrong, is not child abuse or out of the question when it comes to disciplining a child who will not listen.

I never condoned what this guy did. I am pointing out that A) legally nothing will happen to this guy and B) sometimes a smack on the ass is just what a kid needs. If my kid steals from a store once, we will have a discussion. He steals again, then the discussion didn't sink in, so something else is in order (perhaps grounding them, taking something away). If it still doesn't work, what do you do? Go to group counseling? LOL.

It seems I forgot the target audience of this thread, the exact same group I mentioned at first....

[SpmnE9zero]

Originally Posted by Templar

Thank you for your intelligent and insightful response. I'll try to play nice, as you're probably a member of the group I was referring to (if you've even read any of my posts).

What is your exact problem with my thoughts? You think I should coddle my children when they do something wrong? And just hope and pray that maybe taking away their XBOX will make them learn the errors of their ways?

Spoiled rotten...

Parents set themselves up for failure.
First off, you dont just give them the XBOX. The XBOX stays in a neutral location, not that of their bedroom. Therefore you are never "giving" it to them to begin with. This is how you keep children from becoming "Spoiled rotten". IF your children are spoiled rotten that is the doing of the parent and to reverse that is very difficult.

Instilling the proper behaviors in your children start at birth.

Number one thing parents should know, Positive re-enforcements work, better than Negative re-enforcements.

My wife owns a behavioral therapy center for children. Trust me when I tell you, physically beating your children in this manner will only create bigger problems. I see it constantly!

[SpmnE9zero]

I dont disagree with a spank on the ass either, you are (whether you attest to it or not) advocating for this guy. It is coming across loud and clear. The words you are typing are contradicting the manner in which you are placing them into the discussion.

If you do in fact disagree with the treatment here, then great... just doesnt seem that way from your posts.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by SpmnE9zero

Parents set themselves up for failure.
First off, you dont just give them the XBOX. The XBOX stays in a neutral location, not that of their bedroom. Therefore you are never "giving" it to them to begin with. This is how you keep children from becoming "Spoiled rotten". IF your children are spoiled rotten that is the doing of the parent and to reverse that is very difficult.

Instilling the proper behaviors in your children start at birth.

Number one thing parents should know, Positive re-enforcements work, better than Negative re-enforcements.

My wife owns a behavioral therapy center for children. Trust me when I tell you, physically beating your children in this manner will only create bigger problems. I see it constantly!

I agree.

I do not agree with what he did. For the confusion I do apologize. I do NOT advocate what he did as right.

A swift smack in the ass is one thing, and I do agree with doing that from time to time when it is warranted. Excessive slapping over and over (whether in one 10 minute session or over the course of years) I do not agree with.

And thank you SpmnE9zero for taking the logical approach and instead of hurling personal attacks, you answered me correctly and made me clarify how I felt. I can tell the difference between you and the other posters...

[scott_uw]

Originally Posted by Templar

I agree.
...
And thank you SpmnE9zero for taking the logical approach and instead of hurling personal attacks, you answered me correctly and made me clarify how I felt. I can tell the difference between you and the other posters...

Ironic how you can begin your arguments belittling others for their assumed lack of age and thus presumably wisdom, and at the same time feel personal attacks are inappropriate.

Hitting/spanking your kids unless they have truly ____ed up beyond belief is correcting behavior the wrong way, even if it is easier than doing it properly.

[ibarry92]

Check this out.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/451469...t#.TrMcKGA5TXM

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by scott_uw

Hitting/spanking your kids unless they have truly ____ed up beyond belief is correcting behavior the wrong way, even if it is easier than doing it properly.

not everybody is a psychologist lol and punishment works, you just don't always know the consequences.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by scott_uw

Ironic how you can begin your arguments belittling others for their assumed lack of age and thus presumably wisdom, and at the same time feel personal attacks are inappropriate.

This.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by scott_uw

Ironic how you can begin your arguments belittling others for their assumed lack of age and thus presumably wisdom, and at the same time feel personal attacks are inappropriate.

Hitting/spanking your kids unless they have truly ____ed up beyond belief is correcting behavior the wrong way, even if it is easier than doing it properly.

I didn't belittle anyone until I was called an idiot or a moron first... I guess that still doesn't make it right though. I said I would be interested to see what the age demographic was in this thread. Interested was all. And since when is calling someone young a way of belittling them? I never said that because someone was young they lacked wisdom. Why are you putting words into my mouth? I think you're really reaching, just looking for an argument after I admitted I was looking at a whole different view, and agreed with what was being said.

And I corrected myself and said I was wrong about the "punch in the face," which goes hand in hand with saying people were making wild assumptions.

Read the whole thread, and not just the last page. I'm not biting on to your troll bait.

I really should just stick to the car parts of these forums... It seems the off-topic area is where all the trolls reside.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by Templar

Where does this video show her being punched in the face? I saw it on the Today show this morning and all they showed was a few smacks with the belt.

I think some of you are making wild assumptions to what happened in the video. You guys are funny. Let's make something worse than it actually is. Yea, she got more than what the offense warranted IMO, but she wasn't punched in the head. Stop making stuff up.

I would like to see the age demographic of the people in this thread that think this is so horrible, it would be.. interesting... Most of you are probably pretty young.

Also, as stated on the Today show this morning, the statute of limitations on this is 5 years and it happened 7 years ago. He might not get elected for his positions anymore, but he's not ruined... He won't serve jail time, nothing "legal" can happen to him. Glad you're all legal experts and say "he's gonna get nailed" for this, when really he isn't.

Originally Posted by Templar

I didn't belittle anyone until I was called an idiot or a moron. I said I would be interested to see what the age demographic was in this thread. Interested was all. Since when is calling someone young a way of belittling someone? I never said that because someone was young they lacked "wisdom." I think you're really reaching here. Stop looking for an argument.

And I corrected myself and said I was wrong about the "punch in the face," which goes hand in hand with saying people were making wild assumptions.

Read the whole thread, and not just the last page.



Still having trouble reading?

You really are quite the failure aren't you?

Pot meet kettle.

You join the conversation, roughly some 60 odd posts in, and have very clearly not even read the thread.

You then, in your first post, that was wrongly based, start mocking the members that have responded and start asking random, irrelevant questions that are unimportant.

You then, during recess I assume, post another reply without proof reading your post that states you are advocating what the father did....quickly editing your post when you realize what a dumbass you look like.

For the record....I never called you an idiot or a moron....though I didn't dispute those posts either.

I pointed out your reading comprehension sucks....which is fact....and requested you not have kids.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

You really are quite the failure aren't you?

Pot meet kettle.

You join the conversation, roughly some 60 odd posts in, and have very clearly not even read the thread.

You then, in your first post, that was wrongly based, start mocking the members that have responded and start asking random, irrelevant questions that are unimportant.

You then, during recess I assume, post another reply without proof reading your post that states you are advocating what the father did....quickly editing your post when you realize what a dumbass you look like.

For the record....I never called you an idiot or a moron....though I didn't dispute those posts either.

I pointed out your reading comprehension sucks....which is fact....and requested you not have kids.

If you read FURTHER, you'd see I corrected myself, read through the entire thread, and admitted I was wrong.

Where exactly do I advocate what he did? Please show me, because I can't see anywhere that I said "I condone his behavior." Why are my questions irrelevant? Just because you can't answer them or your brain can't comprehend what I am asking doesn't make them irrelevant.

Still cannot read. Maybe you should be the one back in school? Isn't it past your bed time? I would simply request that you get a clue... Welcome to ignore, troll.

[Dr. G]

Now I don't condone the behaviour of the father, however what I fail to understand is why she did not just roll over and take one spank in the ass (like she did from her mother) and hope that it all just ends after.

Now that I think of it though it leads me to believe that her past experiences from bending over for her father were less pleasant then taking the beating for not bending over (not implying this in a seuxal way, rather yet just a literal way). It's sad to think that this may be the case.