[Inspired]

Why does any Lexus thread on e90post starts a huge war?

[mtla4]

Looking forward for this. More alternatives. Honestly I love the new IS. Buddy of mine own a GS350F...excellent bang for the buck I'd get one over a 5er yes the 5er is quicker more luxurious but not worth the extra money. In Canada Lexus are a bargain compared to their Bmw, Mercedes, Audi counterparts. I'd rock an IS350 in manual form if Lexus came out with one. I love the fact that they still use reliable N/A engines.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by mtla4

I'd rock an IS350 in manual form if Lexus came out with one. I love the fact that they still use reliable N/A engines.

As would I, however I don't see a manual coming anytime soon. As for the engines - tried and true doesn't always equate to driving excitement. Reliable? Absolutely. Exciting? No.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Inspired

Why does any Lexus thread on e90post starts a huge war?

Because apparently BMW owners (some) are threatened whenever another brand is seemingly doing better and improving itself, and instead of demanding that their chosen brand do things better, they resort to trashing and ridiculing the competing brand instead.

Fanboy logic.

[KingOfJericho]

I've been pretty candid in saying that I think BMW needs to build more reliable vehicles and I think Lexus needs to build more powerful vehicles. When either can combine both, we have a winner.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I've been pretty candid in saying that I think BMW needs to build more reliable vehicles and I think Lexus needs to build more powerful vehicles. When either can combine both, we have a winner.

If BMW has to be more reliable, I don't know, they are in general not unreliable, but they have to step up their quality and attention to details so as their design. To much cost cutting. Just look at new C Class interior, it even blows the M3 interior out of the water. I expect the F30 LCI to have a big interior change, especially because I expect the new A4 to be a baby A8.

[Inspired]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

As would I, however I don't see a manual coming anytime soon. As for the engines - tried and true doesn't always equate to driving excitement. Reliable? Absolutely. Exciting? No.

Engine or the chasis? There is nothing wrong with the IS350 engine. 306HP is in direct competition with the BMW 335, C350. The chasis is a different story on the previous generation IS350 but the new 2014 IS350 is a whole different ball game. They handle better than a 335.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by Inspired

Engine or the chasis? There is nothing wrong with the IS350 engine. 306HP is in direct competition with the BMW 335, C350. The chasis is a different story on the previous generation IS350 but the new 2014 IS350 is a whole different ball game. They handle better than a 335.

It handles better but it's still underpowered and it doesn't offer a true manual. BMW underrates the 335i by about 30 crank HP whereas the IS350 is appropriately rated.

Good handling is a good start but it needs the entire package (good handling and appropriately powered and manual transmission)

[Inspired]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

It handles better but it's still underpowered and it doesn't offer a true manual. BMW underrates the 335i by about 30 crank HP whereas the IS350 is appropriately rated.

Good handling is a good start but it needs the entire package (good handling and appropriately powered and manual transmission)

Stock IS350 WHP on dynojet pretty consistently at ~270WHP.



Stock 335 is ~280WHP. Yes, the 335i is under rated if we are using the 15% drivetrain rule. So is the IS350.

Underpowered? We are talking about a ~+/- 10WHP between the IS350/335. Jesus christ, you wouldn't even feel a 10WHP difference. That is like a a tenth of a second or two on a quarter mile in a 335. You might also want to take a look at some of their dragtimes. They run consistent low 13s in a bone stock IS350.

https://www.dragtimes.com/Lexus-IS35...lip-13861.html

That is true, it doesn't have a manual transmission but it doesn't mean it doesn't drive better than a 335. The market for manual transmission is so slim. Lexus knows that. Automatic transmission will always be quicker on the drag strip because no human can shift faster than a computer. I understand that you will be missing out on that "fun factor" but many people are switching over from die hard manual transmission drivers to automatic transmission just because they want to be quicker.

[ToothDoc]

The IS350 engine is a great engine - doesn't have the torque of the 3.0 turbo but IMO, if you ran both engines at WOT for a few minutes, I bet the 3.5 engine wouldn't limp like the 3.0 turbo.

BTW, my record in the fully stock IS350 WITH full weight and spare was 13.228@105 and not 13.3@104.

Only reason I didn't hit 13.1 was that I didn't keep it long enough. If I simply swapped out those heavy 18" rims for some Volks and taken out the spare and jack, I'd been down to 13.1-13.0 for sure. Too bad I traded up for the IS-F.

Having said that, I think Lexus has adopted the BMW way of doing mid cycle refreshes. I bet they'll show up with a turbo engine for their entire line up in a couple of years.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Inspired

Stock IS350 WHP on dynojet pretty consistently at ~270WHP.



Stock 335 is ~280WHP. Yes, the 335i is under rated if we are using the 15% drivetrain rule. So is the IS350.

Underpowered? We are talking about a ~+/- 10WHP between the IS350/335. Jesus christ, you wouldn't even feel a 10WHP difference. That is like a a tenth of a second or two on a quarter mile in a 335. You might also want to take a look at some of their dragtimes. They run consistent low 13s in a bone stock IS350.

https://www.dragtimes.com/Lexus-IS35...lip-13861.html

That is true, it doesn't have a manual transmission but it doesn't mean it doesn't drive better than a 335. The market for manual transmission is so slim. Lexus knows that. Automatic transmission will always be quicker on the drag strip because no human can shift faster than a computer. I understand that you will be missing out on that "fun factor" but many people are switching over from die hard manual transmission drivers to automatic transmission just because they want to be quicker.

Don't waste your time.

This was covered pages back in the thread.

It doesn't matter that the IS350 F Sport hands the 335i M Sport its ass in all aspects of driving feel from suspension calibration to steering feel. It needs 10 more whp or else it's crap, and doesn't deserve a look because according to these guys, Lexus is a never-was, and BMW has been a class leading super star for decades. It doesn't matter that the IS350 destroyed the 335i M Sport in the slalom test, it's all about that missing 10 whp. If it wasn't for that small detail, Lexus would be on top, but because it's not there, the 335i all day baby. When these fanboys step on the gas, they want to feel 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, otherwise why bother with such a slow, lumbering car, you might as well be pedaling a bike. 306 hp? Pffft. BMW the winna winna chicken dinna.

[hellrotm]

I got nothing against Lexus. I would drive a IS-F any day. But the new Lexus design language is f*cking hideous. New GS looks decent, but the IS is a joke. They are going to completely ruin each car's design one by one with this new look. Lets not even get into that LF-NX, what the f*ck is that thing.

Really a shame because the RC-F specs sound enticing, especially with a na V8.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Because apparently BMW owners (some) are threatened whenever another brand is seemingly doing better and improving itself, and instead of demanding that their chosen brand do things better, they resort to trashing and ridiculing the competing brand instead.

Fanboy logic.

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Don't waste your time.

This was covered pages back in the thread.

It doesn't matter that the IS350 F Sport hands the 335i M Sport its ass in all aspects of driving feel from suspension calibration to steering feel. It needs 10 more whp or else it's crap, and doesn't deserve a look because according to these guys, Lexus is a never-was, and BMW has been a class leading super star for decades. It doesn't matter that the IS350 destroyed the 335i M Sport in the slalom test, it's all about that missing 10 whp. If it wasn't for that small detail, Lexus would be on top, but because it's not there, the 335i all day baby. When these fanboys step on the gas, they want to feel 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, otherwise why bother with such a slow, lumbering car, you might as well be pedaling a bike. 306 hp? Pffft. BMW the winna winna chicken dinna.

[KingOfJericho]

Some people on this board really don't like/understand personal opinions...

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Don't waste your time.

This was covered pages back in the thread.

It doesn't matter that the IS350 F Sport hands the 335i M Sport its ass in all aspects of driving feel from suspension calibration to steering feel. It needs 10 more whp or else it's crap, and doesn't deserve a look because according to these guys, Lexus is a never-was, and BMW has been a class leading super star for decades. It doesn't matter that the IS350 destroyed the 335i M Sport in the slalom test, it's all about that missing 10 whp. If it wasn't for that small detail, Lexus would be on top, but because it's not there, the 335i all day baby. When these fanboys step on the gas, they want to feel 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, otherwise why bother with such a slow, lumbering car, you might as well be pedaling a bike. 306 hp? Pffft. BMW the winna winna chicken dinna.

If you don't think the 3 series has been the benchmark entry level luxury sedan then you are really in denial. That's not my opinion, it's what I've read in most articles concerning the segment over the last 15 years. Has Lexus finally made a better all around car than the 3er? Quite possibly, I've admittedly spent little time in either of the new models but I'm speaking historically.

You've identified the same weak spot that I have yet you shit on my opinion and call me a fanboy. Nobody said slow and lumbering, I would simply like a little more go. If BMW can make 300hp get to 60 in 4.5, why does that same journey take the Lexus a full second longer?

I will put opinion aside and let the numbers do the talking. You had said that the IS350 "destroyed" the 335i in the slalom so I will use your same source to refute exactly who destroyed who in that test.



Who exactly is the fanboy here?

[MediaArtist]

Have you heard of the Mustang GT? It does 0-60 even faster than the 335i! Great car that provides exactly what you're looking for.

[KingOfJericho]

If Lexus builds such amazing cars, why do you have a garage full of Germans? You chose the A6 over the GS and the 335i over the IS350. Surely you looked at Lexus before choosing those vehicles, right?

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Who exactly is the fanboy here?

Umm, you quite obviously.

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The Japanese are good at making reliable cars but they consistently fall short of the competition in most other aspects. They've been trying to make a 3er competitor for over a decade to no avail.

Then when I post a review of the 335i and 535i being soundly defeated by their Lexus competitors, you go on a tangent about "oh it needs more power" instead of simply saying "Oh I guess they are making class leading vehicles now."

I will put opinion aside and let the numbers do the talking. You had said that the IS350 "destroyed" the 335i in the slalom so I will use your same source to refute exactly who destroyed who in that test.

Yes, let's put aside our opinions and let the people who have actually sat in the vehicle, tested it in all performance aspects, and determined which car is really better, speak for themselves:



The M Sport F30 just like it's big brother F10 exhibits the same soft, disconnected feel from the road. Did you not read this review? BMW has created a luxo-cruiser that separates the driver from the road more so than the ATS and IS350. Yet, you continue to harp about 10% more hp. Why even speak about "performance" when you really mean "drag ability" and just get an S-Class barge and run away from Gallardo's all day?

[Red Bread]

So the Lexus won by 0.4% and we should all just accept that it's hugely better? I'd rather have the ATS out of those three, but really, they're all pretty much a wash these days. I don't see King as any more of a fanboi than Media is simply just playing devil's advocate. But keep calling each other names, it's amusing.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Umm, you quite obviously.

Says the guy with no less than three German cars and no Lexus.

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Then when I post a review of the 335i and 535i being soundly defeated by their Lexus competitors, you go on a tangent about "oh it needs more power" instead of simply saying "Oh I guess they are making class leading vehicles now."

That wasn't a tangent, that was highlighting one weak spot in the cars and expressing that that weak spot is one that I find to be important and thus the reason I would probably not buy one at this point. I've already said that if they bridge that performance gap I would be all over an IS350. I never said that the cars "suck" as you've inferred.

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Yes, let's put aside our opinions and let the people who have actually sat in the vehicle, tested it in all performance aspects, and determined which car is really better, speak for themselves:

So in other words, put aside our opinions in favor of the subjective opinions of others. Nah, I'm all set.

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

The M Sport F30 just like it's big brother F10 exhibits the same soft, disconnected feel from the road. Did you not read this review? BMW has created a luxo-cruiser that separates the driver from the road more so than the ATS and IS350. Yet, you continue to harp about 10% more hp. Why even speak about "performance" when you really mean "drag ability" and just get an S-Class barge and run away from Gallardo's all day?

Several of my coworkers have F10s and they all agree that it's a much softer car than they were expecting as several of them came from the previous gen, which they loved.

I have absolutely no interest in the F10 and couldn't care less about it as I'm just not in that market but the IS is in my wheelhouse. I have only been a passenger in the F30 and it has many nice features but seems like a very plain car. I've had extensive seat time in an E90 335 M sport and that car felt sharp and composed and miles better than the IS350 of that same generation. That is my informed opinion. I'm not buying either car at this point as I'm happy with my S4. As I've mentioned ad nauseam, my only wish is for a little more oomph from the IS350 and that suddenly makes me a fanboy. The logic in that is flawed.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

So the Lexus won by 0.4% and we should all just accept that it's hugely better? I'd rather have the ATS out of those three, but really, they're all pretty much a wash these days. I don't see King as any more of a fanboi than Media is simply just playing devil's advocate. But keep calling each other names, it's amusing.

No one said "hugely" better. But according to a leading industry mag who has taken all 3 class competitors through the usual test (hot lap, 0-60, slalom, etc), the IS350 F Sport seems to be the best of a very tight, competitive, market segment which is contrary to KoJ's claim:

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho
The Japanese are good at making reliable cars but they consistently fall short of the competition in most other aspects. They've been trying to make a 3er competitor for over a decade to no avail.

Obviously an untrue statement because the IS350 F Sport is here, and has been here for a year now. That's what this discussion has been about.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

No one said "hugely" better. But according to a leading industry mag who has taken all 3 class competitors through the usual test (hot lap, 0-60, slalom, etc), the IS350 F Sport seems to be the best of a very tight, competitive, market segment which is contrary to KoJ's claim:

Yeah, you kinda did:

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

It doesn't matter that the IS350 F Sport hands the 335i M Sport its ass in all aspects of driving feel from suspension calibration to steering feel. It needs 10 more whp or else it's crap, and doesn't deserve a look because according to these guys, Lexus is a never-was, and BMW has been a class leading super star for decades. It doesn't matter that the IS350 destroyed the 335i M Sport in the slalom test, it's all about that missing 10 whp. If it wasn't for that small detail, Lexus would be on top, but because it's not there, the 335i all day baby. When these fanboys step on the gas, they want to feel 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, otherwise why bother with such a slow, lumbering car, you might as well be pedaling a bike. 306 hp? Pffft. BMW the winna winna chicken dinna.

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Obviously an untrue statement because the IS350 F Sport is here, and has been here for a year now. That's what this discussion has been about.

I will repeat, once again, that I was speaking historically. A point I've clarified time and time again in this thread.