[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Dealers add ADM because they can. That's why the term dealers use "market adjustment" is actually accurate. They're simply adjusting the street price as high as possible until just before they kill demand. This is commonplace in the free market.

I didn't say it was illegal. It's a scumbag business practice.

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Thank you for the kind words. Much appreciated.

Actually you touched on something that is relevant to me getting the M3 in the first place. I wanted something i can take out randomly after work that is fun to drive, that i DON'T have to shift. I used to do that early on with the C7Z but i found it was more of a chore and annoying to go for a random drive after work than actually driving for enjoyment. I would take a drive around 6pm, leave my neighborhood, hop on the freeway and then bam. Parking lot. It took me 30 minutes to move 1 mile. It was the worst. There were times where i didn't even leave the freeway section of my town because it was so much traffic, i just took the first exit i could and went home lol. So 40 minutes later i drove about 3 miles total because of all that traffic. It was the worst.

So i saved my C7Z drives for the weekend only and the M3 took over for any other joy rides in between. Then my tesla for the commute. I think it balances it out perfectly that way.

I don't really like driving manual much anymore. I only made it an exception because for the reason i said above about the sentimental value. And because the C7Z is fucking badass, even to this day. The sound, the INSANE torque, the attention i get from this car is hard to give up. Plus it's been the most reliable car i had, EVER. Not a single CEL. Battery is still original. I have no weird engine bay noises, no squeaks. The only thing that rattled in my ownership was my steering wheel buttons. Which i replaced. Other than a few rock chips and my driver seat wearing a bit, the car looks and drives like brand new. It's hard to give this up. So we'll see as i get closer to both my C8's coming.

Just noticed you are in NJ. And if you aren’t in the right part of NJ I definitely get the comment. I’m out north of KOP in PA and while I can get to the airport in 30 minutes if there is no traffic - I am really in the middle of no where.

I also tend to take my car out for a drive a 12pm or 3pm or on Fridays on slow days. So specifically driving low volume. If I had to still deal with traffic (haven’t worked in an office in 8 years) it would be a different story. I’d probably own the C8 OR 718 GTS (the manuals gears are too long but the auto is very nice).

So I definitely get it; I’m just fortunate enough to drive with no traffic when I take the vette out.

[dgoldenz]

Fed just increased the interest rates another 0.75%...which means most loans will now be over 5% with many over 6-7%. Discounts will be available soon enough...anyone who thinks the combo of higher rates and higher price with a sinking stock/crypto market won't significantly impact overall demand is delusional.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Mike00

Just noticed you are in NJ. And if you aren’t in the right part of NJ I definitely get the comment. I’m out north of KOP in PA and while I can get to the airport in 30 minutes if there is no traffic - I am really in the middle of no where.

I also tend to take my car out for a drive a 12pm or 3pm or on Fridays on slow days. So specifically driving low volume. If I had to still deal with traffic (haven’t worked in an office in 8 years) it would be a different story. I’d probably own the C8 OR 718 GTS (the manuals gears are too long but the auto is very nice).

So I definitely get it; I’m just fortunate enough to drive with no traffic when I take the vette out.

I'm in NNJ, east rutherford. So close to RT3 if you're familar, which is close to I95, which is close to 495, which is basically the gateway to NYC through the lincoln tunnel. They all intersect with each other which means if one road has traffic, everything else surrounding it does. And my town touches all those major roads so as soon as i leave my town and enter any of the above roads, i am fucked. It'll be a parking lot and i'm just sitting there. Inching my way every 2-3 minutes. WIth a fucking manual. It's the worst.

That's why i got the M3. Because at least if i do encounter something like that, i can live with it because it's an auto. And sooner or later it'll break free and i can proceed to take my joy ride.

Honestly if i got rid of my manual C7Z and let's say by some odd reason if i decide to get another manual in the far future, i would probably get an S2000 or something lol. But i'd LS swap it of course

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Fed just increased the interest rates another 0.75%...which means most loans will now be over 5% with many over 6-7%. Discounts will be available soon enough...anyone who thinks the combo of higher rates and higher price with a sinking stock/crypto market won't significantly impact overall demand is delusional.

So the wait will go from 4 years to 3 years? I don't see discounts happening in that scenario. You will see discounts when the lots have 10+ Z06's sitting on them for 20+ days at a time. The rates will change again by the time many people even get an allocation anyways.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

So the wait will go from 4 years to 3 years? I don't see discounts happening in that scenario. You will see discounts when the lots have 10+ Z06's sitting on them for 20+ days at a time. The rates will change again by the time many people even get an allocation anyways.

The wait will not be 3-4 years. I’ll be surprised if it’s one year. Some of you are seriously underestimating the economic impacts and how they effect discretionary spending. 7% loans vs 3% is another $300-500 a month. Every z06 generation has had massive discounts. This will be no different. The market is about to take a huge hit, but believe what you want. I’m already seeing 10-20% drops on cars priced in this range.

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

The wait will not be 3-4 years. I’ll be surprised if it’s one year. Some of you are seriously underestimating the economic impacts and how they effect discretionary spending. 7% loans vs 3% is another $300-500 a month. Every z06 generation has had massive discounts. This will be no different. The market is about to take a huge hit, but believe what you want. I’m already seeing 10-20% drops on cars priced in this range.

Markets are changing not yet convinced we will hit 2008 level hits though. Incomes/jobs still doing very good. It’s going to be a weird 18 months….

That said i hope you are right.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Fed just increased the interest rates another 0.75%...which means most loans will now be over 5% with many over 6-7%. Discounts will be available soon enough...anyone who thinks the combo of higher rates and higher price with a sinking stock/crypto market won't significantly impact overall demand is delusional.

Just this week I noticed an advertisement about a car promotion. Feels like it's been a long time. Interestingly it was a BMW promotion. Word is repossessions are up dramatically too. The market is moving towards the buyer.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for Chevrolet to get production ahead of demand.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Just this week I noticed an advertisement about a car promotion. Feels like it's been a long time. Interestingly it was a BMW promotion. Word is repossessions are up dramatically too. The market is moving towards the buyer.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for Chevrolet to get production ahead of demand.

I got an advertisement from a Jeep dealer offering $3500 bonus cash on a Wagoneer or 0% for 72 months. Haven't seen those in a while. I've been keeping an eye on the 458 market and many listings have had price cuts of $10-40k and have been sitting for 3-6 months. They were overpriced in the first place but even the hottest of hot markets have their limits.

[Alfisti]

I still follow the car market pretty close and to me, the market has not so much as dried up but shifted a bit. Sporty vehicles sub $60K USD are still in very high demand and holding firm but around that $100K figure I see longer sit times on the lot. I suspect the stretch 60K buyer has exited the market but they have been replaced by the 100K buyer who has maybe shifted their eyeballs to a cheaper vehicle.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Fed just increased the interest rates another 0.75%...which means most loans will now be over 5% with many over 6-7%. Discounts will be available soon enough...anyone who thinks the combo of higher rates and higher price with a sinking stock/crypto market won't significantly impact overall demand is delusional.

Yeah, with the rates having gone up so much and wondering about what a recession will do (I think I should be ok in my job, but you never know) I'm starting to consider eating the $1k deposit and letting the dealership keep the BRZ I ordered in April, due to be delivered next month.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

The wait will not be 3-4 years. I’ll be surprised if it’s one year. Some of you are seriously underestimating the economic impacts and how they effect discretionary spending. 7% loans vs 3% is another $300-500 a month. Every z06 generation has had massive discounts. This will be no different. The market is about to take a huge hit, but believe what you want. I’m already seeing 10-20% drops on cars priced in this range.

nah, check this link
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...postcount=1085

I have already been saying the market is correcting.

In our discussion I am referring to the C8Z06 specifically which I do think you are underestimating demand, overestimating supply, and underestimating the number of people with money who don't rely on interest rates to be car poor. Yes, after that, maybe we will see inventory and discounts......but it's going to be a while. Most of the people paying sticker or more will have long since moved on by then.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

nah, check this link
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...postcount=1085

I have already been saying the market is correcting.

In our discussion I am referring to the C8Z06 specifically which I do think you are underestimating demand, overestimating supply, and underestimating the number of people with money who don't rely on interest rates to be car poor. Yes, after that, maybe we will see inventory and discounts......but it's going to be a while. Most of the people paying sticker or more will have long since moved on by then.

Anyone who turns down a free $60k for their Z06 is an idiot, so that story seems hard to believe. Take the free $60k and go buy a 458 or GT3 or GT4RS. You'd still have the $60k when it comes time to sell instead of seeing it evaporate, plus you get a 458 or GT car instead of a Chevy.

I know what the demand was prior to pricing release and interest rate skyrocketing, I will be curious to see what it is when cars start getting delivered and interest rates are 6-8%. The vast majority of people buying Z06's will be financing them. I think you are severely overestimating how many people can afford to simply pay cash for a $150k car. Believe it or not, most people buying exotics finance those too even if they can afford cash.

One of the little-known "tricks" of buying a car through Ferrari financial or an exotic lender like Premier Financial Services is that the payments don't show up on your credit report, which means they aren't counted against your debt-to-income ratio by other lenders. As far as I'm aware, GM does not offer that benefit. Of course, PFS also charges pretty high interest rates (previously 6-10% depending on credit) which are only getting higher now.

I don't think people realize how difficult it can be to get financed for a car with a $100k+ loan. Even if you have a pile of cash in your bank account, many banks will not finance large amounts for people with no prior history of large loans. The banks see the tide turning and cars turning back into depreciating assets that they don't want to be stuck with when someone defaults, so they are tightening their standards, requiring larger down payments, and turning down more applicants.

Bottom line is that this is not going to be the "buy a Z06, drive it two years then sell for MSRP" cakewalk that most people thought it was going to be when they put in a deposit. All of these massive ADMs will be a thing of the past very soon.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Anyone who turns down a free $60k for their Z06 is an idiot, so that story seems hard to believe. Take the free $60k and go buy a 458 or GT3 or GT4RS. You'd still have the $60k when it comes time to sell instead of seeing it evaporate, plus you get a 458 or GT car instead of a Chevy.

I know what the demand was prior to pricing release and interest rate skyrocketing, I will be curious to see what it is when cars start getting delivered and interest rates are 6-8%. The vast majority of people buying Z06's will be financing them. I think you are severely overestimating how many people can afford to simply pay cash for a $150k car. Believe it or not, most people buying exotics finance those too even if they can afford cash.

One of the little-known "tricks" of buying a car through Ferrari financial or an exotic lender like Premier Financial Services is that the payments don't show up on your credit report, which means they aren't counted against your debt-to-income ratio by other lenders. As far as I'm aware, GM does not offer that benefit. Of course, PFS also charges pretty high interest rates (previously 6-10% depending on credit) which are only getting higher now.

I don't think people realize how difficult it can be to get financed for a car with a $100k+ loan. Even if you have a pile of cash in your bank account, many banks will not finance large amounts for people with no prior history of large loans. The banks see the tide turning and cars turning back into depreciating assets that they don't want to be stuck with when someone defaults, so they are tightening their standards, requiring larger down payments, and turning down more applicants.

Bottom line is that this is not going to be the "buy a Z06, drive it two years then sell for MSRP" cakewalk that most people thought it was going to be when they put in a deposit. All of these massive ADMs will be a thing of the past very soon.

No one turned down anything, you'd have to read the page to not take the post out of context I guess.

Nevermind, you have an economy boner right now, we can chat later when it goes down.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Anyone who turns down a free $60k for their Z06 is an idiot, so that story seems hard to believe. Take the free $60k and go buy a 458 or GT3 or GT4RS. You'd still have the $60k when it comes time to sell instead of seeing it evaporate, plus you get a 458 or GT car instead of a Chevy.

I know what the demand was prior to pricing release and interest rate skyrocketing, I will be curious to see what it is when cars start getting delivered and interest rates are 6-8%. The vast majority of people buying Z06's will be financing them. I think you are severely overestimating how many people can afford to simply pay cash for a $150k car. Believe it or not, most people buying exotics finance those too even if they can afford cash.

One of the little-known "tricks" of buying a car through Ferrari financial or an exotic lender like Premier Financial Services is that the payments don't show up on your credit report, which means they aren't counted against your debt-to-income ratio by other lenders. As far as I'm aware, GM does not offer that benefit. Of course, PFS also charges pretty high interest rates (previously 6-10% depending on credit) which are only getting higher now.

I don't think people realize how difficult it can be to get financed for a car with a $100k+ loan. Even if you have a pile of cash in your bank account, many banks will not finance large amounts for people with no prior history of large loans. The banks see the tide turning and cars turning back into depreciating assets that they don't want to be stuck with when someone defaults, so they are tightening their standards, requiring larger down payments, and turning down more applicants.

Bottom line is that this is not going to be the "buy a Z06, drive it two years then sell for MSRP" cakewalk that most people thought it was going to be when they put in a deposit. All of these massive ADMs will be a thing of the past very soon.

Oh boy. You better get ready for the 500 word response from BGM. He is going to put you in your place. Don't forget. This is going to be the best car EVER made!! Fuck all the Lambos and Mac's. Chevy is putting out the holy grail. 🤣🙃

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

nah, check this link
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...postcount=1085

I have already been saying the market is correcting.

In our discussion I am referring to the C8Z06 specifically which I do think you are underestimating demand, overestimating supply, and underestimating the number of people with money who don't rely on interest rates to be car poor. Yes, after that, maybe we will see inventory and discounts......but it's going to be a while. Most of the people paying sticker or more will have long since moved on by then.

Bump this in a year or so and monitor the progress.

This is similar to what I said earlier back in fall of 2021 of the rise of EV and someone said it’ll go opposite soon. I said give it 2 years.

Half way there and that person’s prediction couldn’t be more wrong.

[Higgs Boson]

hey if you want to talk predictions, here's a pretty good one

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=71

[dgoldenz]

GM just sent out a letter to dealers telling them that if customers resell a Z06, Hummer EV, or Escalade-V in the first 12 months, the warranty will become invalid. Sounds pretty illegal to me but I'm just an idiot on the internet. I can almost guarantee that will result in a class action lawsuit. I like how they are so worried about consumers making money on their cars, but don't care at all about dealers asking for $50-100k ADMs. Good idea to punish the consumer instead of the dealer for doing the same things.


Dear GM Dealership Team,
We are continuing to build momentum as we head into the second half of the year and have started shipments of several of our high demand and limited production products.
This letter serves as a follow-up to my communication from January of this year, where we reiterated your contractual requirements and our policies on selling new vehicles for resale. When vehicles are quickly resold, particularly by unauthorized dealers or other resellers that do not adhere to GM’s standards, the customer experience suffers and GM’s brands are damaged. As a result, on certain high demand enthusiast products, we are limiting the transferability of certain warranties and barring the seller from placing future sold orders or reservations for certain high demand models (as identified by GM) if the vehicle is resold within the first 12 months of ownership. These changes are being implemented to ensure an exemplary customer experience, to ensure our brands remain strong, and to help prioritize ownership by brand enthusiasts and loyal customers. These changes will not impact product recalls in any way.
Currently, the products impacted by these changes include the following: 23MY Cadillac Escalade-V, Chevrolet Corvette Z06, and GMC HUMMER EV (SUT and SUV). Certain warranties will not be transferrable if the original owner resells the vehicle within one year of delivery.
In the coming days, you will receive a message from your respective brands that will outline full details of the warranties and the customer acknowledgement requirements to implement this new process. Thank you in advance for continuing to do your part in ensuring our customers have great experiences when purchasing these truly special products.
If you have any questions or comments, please reach out to your Zone Manager.
Regards,
Steve Carlisle
President GM North America

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

GM just sent out a letter to dealers telling them that if customers resell a Z06, Hummer EV, or Escalade-V in the first 12 months, the warranty will become invalid. Sounds pretty illegal to me but I'm just an idiot on the internet. I can almost guarantee that will result in a class action lawsuit. I like how they are so worried about consumers making money on their cars, but don't care at all about dealers asking for $50-100k ADMs. Good idea to punish the consumer instead of the dealer for doing the same things.

It appears they are putting measures in place to punish the dealer, the flipper, and the buyer of the flipped car.

We will see if they can pull it off.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

It appears they are putting measures in place to punish the dealer, the flipper, and the buyer of the flipped car.

We will see if they can pull it off.

Unless I am reading that wrong, I see nothing about punishing dealers in any way. So the dealer can sell the car for $50k over MSRP but the customer can't make a dime? Customer pays $50k over than sells the car 8 months later for $25k over and is now banned from future purchases despite losing $25k? Not a good look for GM. Are they going to require dealers to sell used ones at MSRP? Seems unlikely.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Unless I am reading that wrong, I see nothing about punishing dealers in any way. So the dealer can sell the car for $50k over MSRP but the customer can't make a dime? Customer pays $50k over than sells the car 8 months later for $25k over and is now banned from future purchases despite losing $25k? Not a good look for GM. Are they going to require dealers to sell used ones at MSRP? Seems unlikely.

There are other measures being talked about as well, not just this one. Allocation limitations for dealers selling over sticker, etc

Large ADM dealers are like the vocal minority, whenever one is identified, a huge deal is made about it and it's projected onto all dealers. I buy any domestics from one particular dealer group in my area that does not under any circumstances charge over sticker for anyone on any new car. Been buying from them for 25 years.

I just traded a preowned truck to them for a different new truck. My trade had 690 miles on it. They gave me what I paid for it. Looking at the market they could have made 10k on it preowned but they told me they would price it 3 grand more than they gave me for it "since they don't sell new ones over sticker it wouldn't look right." Lo and behold, that's exactly what they did.

There are good dealers out there, my BMW dealer is the same way (but they are out of state, lol).

[Red Bread]

Direct sales, please. Let the crooks die off.