Will the BMW M3 bow to Nissan?

InJapan · 12-24-2007, 09:11 PM

Guys,

The plain fact that so many folks are even considering or arguing about the GT-R as a direct competitor to the M3 on an M3 board tells you that for some people IT IS A DIRECT COMPETITOR TO THE M3.

I personally feel that the new M3 has not brought up the standard as much as expected compaired to the competition.

In terms of looks and packaging... Both the M3 and GT-R are top notch. A bit different attitudes but both look good. The GT-R in real life looks EVIL.
This opinion is from someone who got to sit and fiddle with both cars in person.

lyndon_h · 12-25-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Did anyone else notice how unstable the GT-R looks through the cones?

no, but i did notice how they said that it was the 2nd fastest car on the slalom ever. Only the Viper was faster.

jaiman · 12-28-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

Does this still hold true? I know that all of the previous generations of GT-R's were based off of Skyline's (like an M3 version of a 3'er or an Evolution version of a Lancer, etc), and I know that the G35/G37 is called a Skyline in Japan, but I thought that the new GT-R was built off of its own chassis and was no longer built on the same platform as the G35/skyline.

that is correct. The new GT-R has its own chassis and drive train and is no longer based on the Skyline/G37. This is part of the reason why it is just called a "GT-R" and not "Skyline GT-R"

TwiBlueG35 · 12-29-2007, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remonster

The thing I don't understand is, just because they cost the same amount of money does not mean the GT-R is a competitor to the M3. Yes the GT-R is a lot faster (admit it, it's quite a lot faster and this coming from a die hard BMW fan) but the M3 was never meant to compete with it and to be honest, only a very small percentage of buyers would be considering both cars in my opinion.

I just can't see myself (having the money of course) ever having trouble deciding between the E92 M3 or the new GT-R, call me crazy but they just seem like such completely different cars. I have to give Nissan props for succeeding in their goal of beating the 911 Turbo performance wise in the same way that you have to give BMW props for building a car that competes quite favorably with its competitors (or rivals) which are the C63 AMG and Audi RS4.

Nissan's new GT-R is a ridiculous price to performance ratio bargain, what a surprise because all past GT-Rs have done exactly that.

I guess my point in all this is the ///M3 is and will continue to be a huge legend and the GT-R is and will continue to be a huge legend and they exist in two different arenas.

If you think the GT-R and M3 are competitors, that's fine I'm just saying I don't see it that way.

If I am not mistaken, one of the reasons R32 Skyline GT-R was so famous in the early 90s was because it beats many fast cars including BMW M3 at the time in many races, so they were direct competitors. I don't see why they couldn't be direct competitors , as someone said in the earlier post, both of them were two door four seated front engine sports car with 400+ hp, priced at around U.S.$70k. The only main differentiation was that M3 was developed on the basis of the regular 3-series, while GT-R was an independently developed car. Yeah GT-R has twin turbo when M3 is naturally aspirated, but I've never heard that BMW 335i and Infiniti G35 were not in the same class. Yeah GT-R is a AWD when M3 is a RWD, but then why RS4 is a direct competitor to the M3? Now, size-wise they are pretty close as well, GT-R is around 183" long, and M3 should be close to that right? Both cars have a long history of racing and both have a huge aftermarket tuning markets. In fact, I think they are closer to each other than even RS4 and C63 AMG, don't you think? Here is what I think, those who think M3 is not a competitor to GT-R is because their arrogance and cockiness couldn't stand the idea that their beloved mighty BMW is inferior to this new Nissan super car in almost any and every single performance category by a huge margin, because BMW always wins. "That Nissan is a great car, but it is not a BMW" damn right it is not a BMW, because it is already in the super car turf, while the BMW E9X M3 is still only in the fast car area.

hotrod2448 · 12-29-2007, 09:29 AM

In my opinion regardless of "class" if two cars in the same price range they are competitors. I'm not really brand conscious though so, maybe it's just me. If I was looking at an M3 I would also look at every other car even SUV I could get for the same price. When I was looking at the 335 I cross shopped everything from an A4 to Jeep SRT8.

What makes it so hard IMO for the M3 is that it isn't decidedly quicker than it's main German rivals the RS4 and AMG and is definitely slower than the GTR or even Z06 which are in the same price range.

I could see people arguing the GTR and Z06 aren't as luxurious as the M3 and they might be right but, I think most people are willing to trade X amount of luxury for X amount of performance and vice versa. The RS4 and AMG definitely equal or better the M in both classes though IMO.

So, if it doesn't perform better why buy it? I mean if your buying a car to go fast why not go as fast as you can for your money unless you are buying a badge as well?

I'm sure they won't have any problem selling them to lots of people but, to me the M3 wouldn't be a clear winner.

gbb357 · 12-29-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

At least the new M3 has a manual transmission

... I don't know wtf nissan is thinking with only offering paddles.

Would you say the same thing about the Enzo, Veyron, and the Vanquish(before the Vanquish came out with a manual).

BMW335icDDS · 12-30-2007, 01:31 AM

GT-R absolutely crushes the M3. I'm on a waitlist for one.

Robert · 12-30-2007, 02:42 AM

Two attire for different occasions. No one wears gym clothes to a ball.

gtb75 · 12-30-2007, 01:47 PM

I'm also on the list for one - at two different dealers...

The M3 is still on my radar, but the GT-R is definitely ahead of it in my book. I look at the new M3 as a practical car which offers roughly the performance of a base C6 Corvette - no small achievement. I look at the new GT-R as an even more practical car (AWD) which offers roughly the performance of a C6 Z06. The GT-R offers the space and practicality of a GT car, but the performance of a supercar. The people in this post who are saying the GT-R is at a different performance level than the M3 is are correct... The numbers speak for themselves - beyond everything that's been posted (ring times, 0-60 times, etc.), the dyno numbers alone speak volumes: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/14/n...-ft-of-torque/

I don't buy cars for the badge they wear or the "status" driving them gives me - I buy the best performing car for the price I'm willing to spend. Some people are in to the whole name game, and I get that - but not me. The GT-R offers me the practicality I'd be getting in the M3, but without having to take a step down in performance from my current car. It also has a heritage that goes back over 40 years (20 years from R32) and is a car I've always "had a thing" for.

No it doesn't wear a prestigious German badge like BMW but, for me, it's the best choice

M3Bruno · 12-30-2007, 02:00 PM

Yes.

matt.love84 · 12-30-2007, 02:13 PM

great looking vehicle, in both magazines AND in person!

OBI_agent · 12-31-2007, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InJapan

Guys,

The plain fact that so many folks are even considering or arguing about the GT-R as a direct competitor to the M3 on an M3 board tells you that for some people IT IS A DIRECT COMPETITOR TO THE M3.

I personally feel that the new M3 has not brought up the standard as much as expected compaired to the competition.

In terms of looks and packaging... Both the M3 and GT-R are top notch. A bit different attitudes but both look good. The GT-R in real life looks EVIL.
This opinion is from someone who got to sit and fiddle with both cars in person.

+1....I agree, in real life, it's just

BHairsto · 12-31-2007, 11:33 AM

I have yet to read a convincing argument as to why the GT-R is not a direct competitor to the E92 M3. They are both relativlely large, high-performance coupes with back seats and a primary focus of superior handling and speed coupled with aggressive looks, reasonable utility and a good degree of creature comforts. They both offer a lot of electronic gizmos, but neither is particularly luxurious compared to true luxury machines. The only 2 real arguments that these cars are not direct competitors are: 1) there is a certain camp of badge whores who will not buy anything that doesn't have a BMW emblem or otherwise originate from Europe; and 2) the GT-R's performace is leagues beyond the M3's. Sure, the M3 may be a bit more civilized as a daily driver, but the same comparisons can be made with regard to many cars that compete within the same segments. Also, The GT-R may not be aesthetically pleasing to some, but that does not mean it is not a competitor. The Z06 analogy is so off-point that it's barely worth discussing - the Z06 is a 2 seat car that is significantly smaller and lighter than the M3 or GT-R.

I am a former E46 M3 owner - it was, IMO, the second best car I have owned (a very close second to my 335). I am obviously a big BMW fan, but some of the folks here have been drinking the BMW kool-aid way to much. Face it folks, the GT-R is a segment buster, and being a Nissan only diminishes that accomplishment in the minds of those who value image more than substance. I don't fault anyone for preferring the M3 to the GT-R (I think the M3 is better looking inside and out, and it could possibly be more fun/involving to drive), but at least acknowledge that fact that these two cars ARE competing, and, from a performance aspect, it's no contest.

lyndon_h · 12-31-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHairsto

I have yet to read a convincing argument as to why the GT-R is not a direct competitor to the E92 M3. They are both relativlely large, high-performance coupes with back seats and a primary focus of superior handling and speed coupled with aggressive looks, reasonable utility and a good degree of creature comforts. They both offer a lot of electronic gizmos, but neither is particularly luxurious compared to true luxury machines. The only 2 real arguments that these cars are not direct competitors are: 1) there is a certain camp of badge whores who will not buy anything that doesn't have a BMW emblem or otherwise originate from Europe; and 2) the GT-R's performace is leagues beyond the M3's. Sure, the M3 may be a bit more civilized as a daily driver, but the same comparisons can be made with regard to many cars that compete within the same segments. Also, The GT-R may not be aesthetically pleasing to some, but that does not mean it is not a competitor. The Z06 analogy is so off-point that it's barely worth discussing - the Z06 is a 2 seat car that is significantly smaller and lighter than the M3 or GT-R.

I am a former E46 M3 owner - it was, IMO, the second best car I have owned (a very close second to my 335). I am obviously a big BMW fan, but some of the folks here have been drinking the BMW kool-aid way to much. Face it folks, the GT-R is a segment buster, and being a Nissan only diminishes that accomplishment in the minds of those who value image more than substance. I don't fault anyone for preferring the M3 to the GT-R (I think the M3 is better looking inside and out, and it could possibly be more fun/involving to drive), but at least acknowledge that fact that these two cars ARE competing, and, from a performance aspect, it's no contest.

I agree. I'm actually glad that its being marketed as a Nissan. It keeps all of the brand whores at bay.

gtb75 · 12-31-2007, 04:14 PM

I 100% agree with both of last two comments made above!

It's interesting though - I road race with 2 different BMWCCA groups... You never see BMW owners at those events making statements like "BMW's are the best" or "that car sucks because it's made by (insert mfg name here)". I guess that's what happens when you hang around with true car enthusiasts... You know, the ones who know more about cars than the badge on the back

Yes, BMW has made some great cars in their time... That being said, they've had their share of "dark days" like everybody else. They've got some really compelling choices out there right now (135i, 335i, M3), but so do some other manufacturers. Bottom line - now is a great time to be a car enthusiast

AWD Addict · 12-31-2007, 04:20 PM

The GTR is a supercar. As awesome as the M3 is, it's not supercar. That car belongs in the Vette / Viper club. Anyone who's followed the skyline from backin the 90's knows that. We're talking about a STOCK TEN SECOND CAR here guys. That's simply not M3 territory.

Someone forgot to dole out the reality medication this morning in the E90talk asylum.

12-24-2007, 09:11 PM	#89
InJapan Private 0 Rep 57 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Cab, imola/imola Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Japan iTrader: (0)	Guys, The plain fact that so many folks are even considering or arguing about the GT-R as a direct competitor to the M3 on an M3 board tells you that for some people IT IS A DIRECT COMPETITOR TO THE M3. I personally feel that the new M3 has not brought up the standard as much as expected compaired to the competition. In terms of looks and packaging... Both the M3 and GT-R are top notch. A bit different attitudes but both look good. The GT-R in real life looks EVIL. This opinion is from someone who got to sit and fiddle with both cars in person.
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12-29-2007, 09:29 AM	#93
hotrod2448 grand poobah 257 Rep 2,253 Posts Drives: F80 M3, F10 535i Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 335d [0.00]	In my opinion regardless of "class" if two cars in the same price range they are competitors. I'm not really brand conscious though so, maybe it's just me. If I was looking at an M3 I would also look at every other car even SUV I could get for the same price. When I was looking at the 335 I cross shopped everything from an A4 to Jeep SRT8. What makes it so hard IMO for the M3 is that it isn't decidedly quicker than it's main German rivals the RS4 and AMG and is definitely slower than the GTR or even Z06 which are in the same price range. I could see people arguing the GTR and Z06 aren't as luxurious as the M3 and they might be right but, I think most people are willing to trade X amount of luxury for X amount of performance and vice versa. The RS4 and AMG definitely equal or better the M in both classes though IMO. So, if it doesn't perform better why buy it? I mean if your buying a car to go fast why not go as fast as you can for your money unless you are buying a badge as well? I'm sure they won't have any problem selling them to lots of people but, to me the M3 wouldn't be a clear winner.
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12-30-2007, 01:31 AM	#95
BMW335icDDS Doctor 34 Rep 634 Posts Drives: RRSport, 335vert, 997 S, Sc430 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles and New York iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 Porsche 997S [0.00] 2007 Porsche 997S [0.00] 2007 BMW 335 E93 [9.00]	GT-R absolutely crushes the M3. I'm on a waitlist for one. __________________ 2002 Lexus Sc430 2007 BMW 335i Convertible Space Gray on Coral Red 2007 Porsche Carrera S 2011 Range Rover Sport HSE Lux UCLA D.D.S. Columbia University Dental Specialist
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12-30-2007, 02:42 AM	#96
Robert Major General 440 Rep 6,967 Posts Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	Two attire for different occasions. No one wears gym clothes to a ball.
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12-30-2007, 01:47 PM	#97
gtb75 Private 13 Rep 95 Posts Drives: 2006 Corvette Z06 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: IL, USA iTrader: (0)	I'm also on the list for one - at two different dealers... The M3 is still on my radar, but the GT-R is definitely ahead of it in my book. I look at the new M3 as a practical car which offers roughly the performance of a base C6 Corvette - no small achievement. I look at the new GT-R as an even more practical car (AWD) which offers roughly the performance of a C6 Z06. The GT-R offers the space and practicality of a GT car, but the performance of a supercar. The people in this post who are saying the GT-R is at a different performance level than the M3 is are correct... The numbers speak for themselves - beyond everything that's been posted (ring times, 0-60 times, etc.), the dyno numbers alone speak volumes: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/14/n...-ft-of-torque/ I don't buy cars for the badge they wear or the "status" driving them gives me - I buy the best performing car for the price I'm willing to spend. Some people are in to the whole name game, and I get that - but not me. The GT-R offers me the practicality I'd be getting in the M3, but without having to take a step down in performance from my current car. It also has a heritage that goes back over 40 years (20 years from R32) and is a car I've always "had a thing" for. No it doesn't wear a prestigious German badge like BMW but, for me, it's the best choice __________________ 2006 Corvette Z06 Black / Ebony - 459RWHP / 438RWTQ 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Wagon Brilliant Silver / Tweed M5 - 229AWHP / 260AWTQ
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12-30-2007, 02:00 PM	#98
M3Bruno Private 2 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2002 M3 / 2007 M5 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: California iTrader: (0)	Yes.
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12-30-2007, 02:13 PM	#99
matt.love84 xXx 67 Rep 82 Posts Drives: 2006 E90. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (0)	great looking vehicle, in both magazines AND in person!
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12-31-2007, 11:33 AM	#101
BHairsto Lieutenant 136 Rep 497 Posts Drives: 2016 BMW M2 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Woodbridge, VA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2016 BMW X5 35d [0.00]	I have yet to read a convincing argument as to why the GT-R is not a direct competitor to the E92 M3. They are both relativlely large, high-performance coupes with back seats and a primary focus of superior handling and speed coupled with aggressive looks, reasonable utility and a good degree of creature comforts. They both offer a lot of electronic gizmos, but neither is particularly luxurious compared to true luxury machines. The only 2 real arguments that these cars are not direct competitors are: 1) there is a certain camp of badge whores who will not buy anything that doesn't have a BMW emblem or otherwise originate from Europe; and 2) the GT-R's performace is leagues beyond the M3's. Sure, the M3 may be a bit more civilized as a daily driver, but the same comparisons can be made with regard to many cars that compete within the same segments. Also, The GT-R may not be aesthetically pleasing to some, but that does not mean it is not a competitor. The Z06 analogy is so off-point that it's barely worth discussing - the Z06 is a 2 seat car that is significantly smaller and lighter than the M3 or GT-R. I am a former E46 M3 owner - it was, IMO, the second best car I have owned (a very close second to my 335). I am obviously a big BMW fan, but some of the folks here have been drinking the BMW kool-aid way to much. Face it folks, the GT-R is a segment buster, and being a Nissan only diminishes that accomplishment in the minds of those who value image more than substance. I don't fault anyone for preferring the M3 to the GT-R (I think the M3 is better looking inside and out, and it could possibly be more fun/involving to drive), but at least acknowledge that fact that these two cars ARE competing, and, from a performance aspect, it's no contest.
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12-31-2007, 04:14 PM	#103
gtb75 Private 13 Rep 95 Posts Drives: 2006 Corvette Z06 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: IL, USA iTrader: (0)	I 100% agree with both of last two comments made above! It's interesting though - I road race with 2 different BMWCCA groups... You never see BMW owners at those events making statements like "BMW's are the best" or "that car sucks because it's made by (insert mfg name here)". I guess that's what happens when you hang around with true car enthusiasts... You know, the ones who know more about cars than the badge on the back Yes, BMW has made some great cars in their time... That being said, they've had their share of "dark days" like everybody else. They've got some really compelling choices out there right now (135i, 335i, M3), but so do some other manufacturers. Bottom line - now is a great time to be a car enthusiast __________________ 2006 Corvette Z06 Black / Ebony - 459RWHP / 438RWTQ 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Wagon Brilliant Silver / Tweed M5 - 229AWHP / 260AWTQ Last edited by gtb75; 12-31-2007 at 04:45 PM..
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12-31-2007, 04:20 PM	#104
AWD Addict Chief Executive 402 Rep 2,920 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Boston iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 335xi [0.00]	The GTR is a supercar. As awesome as the M3 is, it's not supercar. That car belongs in the Vette / Viper club. Anyone who's followed the skyline from backin the 90's knows that. We're talking about a STOCK TEN SECOND CAR here guys. That's simply not M3 territory. Someone forgot to dole out the reality medication this morning in the E90talk asylum.
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