[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by BoostedRide

You've obviously never driven a Miata. You don't need big HP to have fun driving a car when built right + the top goes down!

exactly

Source: the face of these guys

[Mik3ymomo]

they are approaching or have surpassed a million Miatas. I've never been much of a soft top guy but the new one can be had with some type of targa/hard top. The car finally gets a decent styling make over and while the power isn't high the car is very light. You can always throw a turbo on one. Same with the S2000. Japanese sports cars of the 90's where special cars and the last of the pure driver cars before all the gagetry. Now the GT-R can make a lap faster than a new Z06 and do it with half the driver effort.

It's fun to go fast but it's rewarding to be able to do it with skill instead of computers. I think the GT-R is an amazing piece of engineering but after several fast laps you may start to realize boredom set in as the times don't improve regardless of driver input.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

exactly

Source: the face of these guys

#specialolympicsofghey #brotherfromsomethingaboutmary

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

I agree with OP. No more exist. Evo X was legit but it's done now. Not sure about STI. If I had to pick, maybe last choices are STI and 370Z.

Miata and BRZ are momentum cars and may be fun on the track but lack any real power for sustained enjoyment.

Nothing from Lexus IS worth looking at beyond the LFA. Sorry but the F cars fall short of their European and American counterparts.

You don't need gobs of HP to have "sustained enjoyment" I never lost interest in my Miata.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Mik3ymomo

they are approaching or have surpassed a million Miatas. I've never been much of a soft top guy but the new one can be had with some type of targa/hard top. The car finally gets a decent styling make over and while the power isn't high the car is very light. You can always throw a turbo on one. Same with the S2000. Japanese sports cars of the 90's where special cars and the last of the pure driver cars before all the gagetry. Now the GT-R can make a lap faster than a new Z06 and do it with half the driver effort.

It's fun to go fast but it's rewarding to be able to do it with skill instead of computers. I think the GT-R is an amazing piece of engineering but after several fast laps you may start to realize boredom set in as the times don't improve regardless of driver input.

Miatas had a PRHT years ago as well. You know that, right?

My GT-R boredom sets in during a 5 minute drive.

Mazda has no Mazdaspeed plans for anything. I'm keeping my Mazdaspeed6. Very underrated cars.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by OrangeZ06

You don't need gobs of HP to have "sustained enjoyment" I never lost interest in my Miata.

Yeah, but you've got a C6Z in your back pocket too!

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Yeah, but you've got a C6Z in your back pocket too!

Even when it was just the Miata & MS6, I still never got bored behind the wheel.

[Viffermike]

Ain't forums grand?

"Sports car" is a term that's been so bastardized and adjusted for the needs of whomever over time that it's essentially lost its meaning. Read this recent R&T article for some context.

So let's go with good ol' Merriam Webster, shall we?:

"a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving"

Now before anyone says "Ah-ha! 'High-speed driving'! That means it has to be powerful!": you're wrong. That means high speeds for conditions. In other words, ya don't need 400 horsepower to go around a hairpin or S-bend fast. Keep in mind that the second requirement is "easy maneuverability".

So let's go back to the OP's post. He's got mostly non-sports cars in his list:
- Honda Prelude (only Gen 1 or Gen 2)
- Toyota Supra (Originally a souped-up Celica. Never was a sports car. It was a GT car),
- Nissan 240s (Actually 240SX. Not a sports car)
- S2000 (DEFINITELY a sports car)

OK, now let's answer his question:
- Mazda Miata
- Toyota/Scion FR-S
- Subaru BRZ
- Nissan 370z (barely ... it's the first Z car to be a true sports car since the 1979 Gen 2 models, which were primarily 2+2 GT cars. By the 3rd Gen, it was an out-and-out luxury GT)

Finally, the following are NOT sports cars:
- Subaru WRX/STI
- Any Civic
- Any Mitsubishi
- Nissan GTR
- Any VW Golf/GTI, ever
- Any Lexus (excluding the LFA), ever
- Any 'muscle car' or 'pony car', ever
- Any Cadillac, ever

And the following are (some discontinued models for context):
- Chevy Corvette
- Dodge Viper
- Acura NSX (First-gen: definitely. The new one is debatable but probably is)
- Alfa Romeo 4C
- Porsche Boxster/Cayman (NOT the 911, which has evolved into a GT car)
- Audi R8
- Mazda RX-7 (1st and 2nd Gen; the 3rd was a borderline GT. The RX-8 was a GT)
- BMW Z3/4
- Most Ferraris
- Most Lamborghinis
- No Maseratis, Aston Martins, or Jaguars (The F-Type is equivalent to a 911)
- Toyota MR2
- The original Mini Cooper (debatable, but I consider it a sports car)

And the following are roadsters, not sports cars, since they are convertibles or targas and not necessarily designed for high performance:
- Triumph TR-6/7/8
- Fiat X1/9
- Honda Del Sol
- Porsche 914 (excluding the 914/6)
- Alfa Romeo Spider
- Any Austin-Healey
- Any pre-resurrection MG
- Pontiac Solstice

And there ya have it.

[eluded]

Funny list u got there. You've obviously not driven some of GMs new "sports cars"

[ChuckAWDM2]

Been waiting for Nissan to release a new Z for years...supposed to have the new 400hp engine.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by eluded

Funny list u got there. You've obviously not driven some of GMs new "sports cars"

Semantics.

[KShirza1]

Why is a frs/brz for sure a sports car (i agree it is, but the logic compared to others not being a sports car)? I'd say a 370z is more of a sports car then a corolla evolution. I also dont think a roadster/spider is the only way to define a true sports car from this descussion. Maybe a pure example of one, but a roadster is also a thing.

not in any order... roadster; sports car; super sports car; hyper sports car... no?

I always thought a sports car despite its origins and hp is a front engine rwd coupe. In my opinion making M3 a sports car benchmark. I think these days those lines are very blurred with offerings for any market.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Ain't forums grand?

"Sports car" is a term that's been so bastardized and adjusted for the needs of whomever over time that it's essentially lost its meaning. Read this recent R&T article for some context.

So let's go with good ol' Merriam Webster, shall we?:

"a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving"

Now before anyone says "Ah-ha! 'High-speed driving'! That means it has to be powerful!": you're wrong. That means high speeds for conditions. In other words, ya don't need 400 horsepower to go around a hairpin or S-bend fast. Keep in mind that the second requirement is "easy maneuverability".

So let's go back to the OP's post. He's got mostly non-sports cars in his list:
- Honda Prelude (only Gen 1 or Gen 2)
- Toyota Supra (Originally a souped-up Celica. Never was a sports car. It was a GT car),
- Nissan 240s (Actually 240SX. Not a sports car)
- S2000 (DEFINITELY a sports car)

OK, now let's answer his question:
- Mazda Miata
- Toyota/Scion FR-S
- Subaru BRZ
- Nissan 370z (barely ... it's the first Z car to be a true sports car since the 1979 Gen 2 models, which were primarily 2+2 GT cars. By the 3rd Gen, it was an out-and-out luxury GT)

Finally, the following are NOT sports cars:
- Subaru WRX/STI
- Any Civic
- Any Mitsubishi
- Nissan GTR
- Any VW Golf/GTI, ever
- Any Lexus (excluding the LFA), ever
- Any 'muscle car' or 'pony car', ever
- Any Cadillac, ever

And the following are (some discontinued models for context):
- Chevy Corvette
- Dodge Viper
- Acura NSX (First-gen: definitely. The new one is debatable but probably is)
- Alfa Romeo 4C
- Porsche Boxster/Cayman (NOT the 911, which has evolved into a GT car)
- Audi R8
- Mazda RX-7 (1st and 2nd Gen; the 3rd was a borderline GT. The RX-8 was a GT)
- BMW Z3/4
- Most Ferraris
- Most Lamborghinis
- No Maseratis, Aston Martins, or Jaguars (The F-Type is equivalent to a 911)
- Toyota MR2
- The original Mini Cooper (debatable, but I consider it a sports car)

And the following are roadsters, not sports cars, since they are convertibles or targas and not necessarily designed for high performance:
- Triumph TR-6/7/8
- Fiat X1/9
- Honda Del Sol
- Porsche 914 (excluding the 914/6)
- Alfa Romeo Spider
- Any Austin-Healey
- Any pre-resurrection MG
- Pontiac Solstice

And there ya have it.

how is the gtr not a sports carr?

[eluded]

I always thought a sports car had to have horsepower. That eliminates the S 2000 and some of the others in the list.

Back to my Cadillac comment as I would have never said that years ago but the new ATSv with the six speed manual, is not too bad. The price is ridiculous but the car is amazing and holds its own against ///M cars

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

how is the gtr not a sports carr?

It is a GT car. Not a sports car.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Ain't forums grand?

"Sports car" is a term that's been so bastardized and adjusted for the needs of whomever over time that it's essentially lost its meaning. Read this recent R&T article for some context.

So let's go with good ol' Merriam Webster, shall we?:

"a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving"

Now before anyone says "Ah-ha! 'High-speed driving'! That means it has to be powerful!": you're wrong. That means high speeds for conditions. In other words, ya don't need 400 horsepower to go around a hairpin or S-bend fast. Keep in mind that the second requirement is "easy maneuverability".

So let's go back to the OP's post. He's got mostly non-sports cars in his list:
- Honda Prelude (only Gen 1 or Gen 2)
- Toyota Supra (Originally a souped-up Celica. Never was a sports car. It was a GT car),
- Nissan 240s (Actually 240SX. Not a sports car)
- S2000 (DEFINITELY a sports car)

OK, now let's answer his question:
- Mazda Miata
- Toyota/Scion FR-S
- Subaru BRZ
- Nissan 370z (barely ... it's the first Z car to be a true sports car since the 1979 Gen 2 models, which were primarily 2+2 GT cars. By the 3rd Gen, it was an out-and-out luxury GT)

Finally, the following are NOT sports cars:
- Subaru WRX/STI
- Any Civic
- Any Mitsubishi
- Nissan GTR
- Any VW Golf/GTI, ever
- Any Lexus (excluding the LFA), ever
- Any 'muscle car' or 'pony car', ever
- Any Cadillac, ever

And the following are (some discontinued models for context):
- Chevy Corvette
- Dodge Viper
- Acura NSX (First-gen: definitely. The new one is debatable but probably is)
- Alfa Romeo 4C
- Porsche Boxster/Cayman (NOT the 911, which has evolved into a GT car)
- Audi R8
- Mazda RX-7 (1st and 2nd Gen; the 3rd was a borderline GT. The RX-8 was a GT)
- BMW Z3/4
- Most Ferraris
- Most Lamborghinis
- No Maseratis, Aston Martins, or Jaguars (The F-Type is equivalent to a 911)
- Toyota MR2
- The original Mini Cooper (debatable, but I consider it a sports car)

And the following are roadsters, not sports cars, since they are convertibles or targas and not necessarily designed for high performance:
- Triumph TR-6/7/8
- Fiat X1/9
- Honda Del Sol
- Porsche 914 (excluding the 914/6)
- Alfa Romeo Spider
- Any Austin-Healey
- Any pre-resurrection MG
- Pontiac Solstice

And there ya have it.

Could not agree more. When you consider the weight of many of these GT cars it is a complete disservice to call them sports cars.

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Could not agree more. When you consider the weight of many of these GT cars it is a complete disservice to call them sports cars.

lol to most people it's not that serious. especially when the parameters for a sports car are being blended more and more. I don't think I'll ever consider a miata a sports car. it does good in 1 sport autocross. to each his own most certainly though.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Ain't forums grand?

"Sports car" is a term that's been so bastardized and adjusted for the needs of whomever over time that it's essentially lost its meaning. Read this recent R&T article for some context.

So let's go with good ol' Merriam Webster, shall we?:

"a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving"

Now before anyone says "Ah-ha! 'High-speed driving'! That means it has to be powerful!": you're wrong. That means high speeds for conditions. In other words, ya don't need 400 horsepower to go around a hairpin or S-bend fast. Keep in mind that the second requirement is "easy maneuverability".

So let's go back to the OP's post. He's got mostly non-sports cars in his list:
- Honda Prelude (only Gen 1 or Gen 2)
- Toyota Supra (Originally a souped-up Celica. Never was a sports car. It was a GT car),
- Nissan 240s (Actually 240SX. Not a sports car)
- S2000 (DEFINITELY a sports car)

OK, now let's answer his question:
- Mazda Miata
- Toyota/Scion FR-S
- Subaru BRZ
- Nissan 370z (barely ... it's the first Z car to be a true sports car since the 1979 Gen 2 models, which were primarily 2+2 GT cars. By the 3rd Gen, it was an out-and-out luxury GT)

Finally, the following are NOT sports cars:
- Subaru WRX/STI
- Any Civic
- Any Mitsubishi
- Nissan GTR
- Any VW Golf/GTI, ever
- Any Lexus (excluding the LFA), ever
- Any 'muscle car' or 'pony car', ever
- Any Cadillac, ever

And the following are (some discontinued models for context):
- Chevy Corvette
- Dodge Viper
- Acura NSX (First-gen: definitely. The new one is debatable but probably is)
- Alfa Romeo 4C
- Porsche Boxster/Cayman (NOT the 911, which has evolved into a GT car)
- Audi R8
- Mazda RX-7 (1st and 2nd Gen; the 3rd was a borderline GT. The RX-8 was a GT)
- BMW Z3/4
- Most Ferraris
- Most Lamborghinis
- No Maseratis, Aston Martins, or Jaguars (The F-Type is equivalent to a 911)
- Toyota MR2
- The original Mini Cooper (debatable, but I consider it a sports car)

And the following are roadsters, not sports cars, since they are convertibles or targas and not necessarily designed for high performance:
- Triumph TR-6/7/8
- Fiat X1/9
- Honda Del Sol
- Porsche 914 (excluding the 914/6)
- Alfa Romeo Spider
- Any Austin-Healey
- Any pre-resurrection MG
- Pontiac Solstice

And there ya have it.

I agree with your post, but I think you're splitting hairs by separating GT, Roadster, and Sports car.

The way I see it, Roadsters easily fall under sports cars. Your Merriam Webster definition isn't excluding convertibles. Why are you categorizing the Z3 and Z4 as sports cars and not Roadsters? The Z3 is the pinnacle of a what a roadster is.

The line between GT and Sports car is very thin. You'd have a difficult time explaining to someone that the 911 isn't a sports car, but the Cayman is, simply because the 911 is a little bigger. All cars have gotten bigger, sizes are relative.

And lastly, agreed entirely that a WRX, Civic or Evo, don't even come close to the definition of a sports car and I have no clue why they have been mentioned in this thread.

[XxMerlinxX]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Ain't forums grand?

"Sports car" is a term that's been so bastardized and adjusted for the needs of whomever over time that it's essentially lost its meaning. Read this recent R&T article for some context.

So let's go with good ol' Merriam Webster, shall we?:

"a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving"

Now before anyone says "Ah-ha! 'High-speed driving'! That means it has to be powerful!": you're wrong. That means high speeds for conditions. In other words, ya don't need 400 horsepower to go around a hairpin or S-bend fast. Keep in mind that the second requirement is "easy maneuverability".

So let's go back to the OP's post. He's got mostly non-sports cars in his list:
- Honda Prelude (only Gen 1 or Gen 2)
- Toyota Supra (Originally a souped-up Celica. Never was a sports car. It was a GT car),
- Nissan 240s (Actually 240SX. Not a sports car)
- S2000 (DEFINITELY a sports car)

OK, now let's answer his question:
- Mazda Miata
- Toyota/Scion FR-S
- Subaru BRZ
- Nissan 370z (barely ... it's the first Z car to be a true sports car since the 1979 Gen 2 models, which were primarily 2+2 GT cars. By the 3rd Gen, it was an out-and-out luxury GT)

Finally, the following are NOT sports cars:
- Subaru WRX/STI
- Any Civic
- Any Mitsubishi
- Nissan GTR
- Any VW Golf/GTI, ever
- Any Lexus (excluding the LFA), ever
- Any 'muscle car' or 'pony car', ever
- Any Cadillac, ever

And the following are (some discontinued models for context):
- Chevy Corvette
- Dodge Viper
- Acura NSX (First-gen: definitely. The new one is debatable but probably is)
- Alfa Romeo 4C
- Porsche Boxster/Cayman (NOT the 911, which has evolved into a GT car)
- Audi R8
- Mazda RX-7 (1st and 2nd Gen; the 3rd was a borderline GT. The RX-8 was a GT)
- BMW Z3/4
- Most Ferraris
- Most Lamborghinis
- No Maseratis, Aston Martins, or Jaguars (The F-Type is equivalent to a 911)
- Toyota MR2
- The original Mini Cooper (debatable, but I consider it a sports car)

And the following are roadsters, not sports cars, since they are convertibles or targas and not necessarily designed for high performance:
- Triumph TR-6/7/8
- Fiat X1/9
- Honda Del Sol
- Porsche 914 (excluding the 914/6)
- Alfa Romeo Spider
- Any Austin-Healey
- Any pre-resurrection MG
- Pontiac Solstice

And there ya have it.

You think a 3rd gen TT RX-7 is a borderline grand touring car...

[mremg]

Funny story - I just got off the phone talking to my dad, who is definitely not a car person and he told me he is thinking about getting a sports car. I asked him what cars he is looking into and he said he really liked this Volvo sports car. I was like 'Huh!? Volvo makes a sports car? What is it called?' He replied, XC90. I was like 'Dad, that's not a sports car it's an SUV!!'. He replies 'Doesn't SUV mean a ''Sports'' Utility Vehicle?'

[doane2u]

The Miata / MX-5 is an incredible sports car roadster and keeps getting better every year. The new 2016 ND (forth generation) manages to keep it's heritage of being small, light, and a blast to drive while being lighter, faster than the old Miata Speed (0-60 under 6 seconds with more torque than the NC) and getting great MPG along with it's reliability and inexpensive repairs... what other roadster can boast that and sell for under $30k?

Here it is at the unveiling at the 20th anniversary meet at Laguna Seca in 2014 with a few Mazda girls thrown in..



Also, they just introduced the Retractable Fastback MX-5 RF which is beautiful and getting a lot of attention in all the car magazines. The top goes up and down in about 12 seconds and doesn't eat up any more trunk space than the soft top.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by mremg

Funny story - I just got off the phone talking to my dad, who is definitely not a car person and he told me he is thinking about getting a sports car. I asked him what cars he is looking into and he said he really liked this Volvo sports car. I was like 'Huh!? Volvo makes a sports car? What is it called?' He replied, XC90. I was like 'Dad, that's not a sports car it's an SUV!!'. He replies 'Doesn't SUV mean a ''Sports'' Utility Vehicle?'

Well, he's not wrong