[P1]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

It's probably because I'm not really used to it and it has been annoying to work with in the few months that I've been here. It's really frustrating that you are being treated as untrustworthy from the get go.

Need utilities? Oh we'll need a deposit from you sir, because your social security number is telling us not to trust you. Want cable? Gotta pay a deposit. Want to cash this check sir? Sorry, third party company says you're not to be trusted because we don't know you.

Especially the last one was pretty annoying because for a while I got paid in checks. Closest issuing bank was over 300 miles away and I did not have a bank account. Kind of annoying when you want to pay for stuff...

So while I'm not really worried about building a credit score per se, even when not wanting to use a credit card it was smacked in my face a few times.

Stop being paranoid! I wish only "negative" credit score was kept, that way you're not punished for not being "part of the system".


Living with in my means is not the problem. Noone has a credit card back home, everybody pays for stuff using a debit card. Can't spend money that you don't have. Honestly, that would probably be a good thing for some Americans. While the vast majority is responsible, there are also a lot of people who allow themselves to get f'ed over by the system. A lot harder to buy shit if you don't have credit.

I can see your point with regards to disputed charges, but honestly, I've never had to dispute a charge. I will however say that I'm real picky with what I buy and who/where I buy it from.

I also like CCs as business expenditure cards, but for all my personal stuff, I'll just stick to debit

Sorry if this post seems overly negative. I really do like it here. I'm seeing more fun cars here than back home, the food is better and so far it's been a pretty good experience.

Would you give money or provide services to people you don't know or trust? I take it you wouldn't. So why would a bank, a utilities company or an internet provider? Stop being paranoid? You're aware this country has a massive problem with people racking up debt and not being able to pay it back, right?

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by P1et

Would you give money or provide services to people you don't know or trust? I take it you wouldn't.

I do not have Comcast's budget.

So why would a bank, a utilities company or an internet provider

They don't necessiraly have to, but not on the basis of the information provided by the current credit score IMHO.

Stop being paranoid? You're aware this country has a massive problem with people racking up debt and not being able to pay it back, right?

I am not saying there shouldn't be checks in place, sorry for not being clear on that. There definitely should be some form of check.

The way things go back at home are IMHO, more fair while still being strict. If you apply for any type of credit, your credit provider will check your salary and check your "BKR" registration. It's basically a national database in which all your loans and mortages are registered. If you have sufficient salary to cover the loan payments and you have no "negative" BKR registration, you're likely good to go, no problem.

This is IMHO, a much fairer system where I, as a newcomer, am not considered to be someone who's likely not going to be paying his bills. Not guilty until proven otherwise if you will.

If I miss payments, my credit provider will ask BKR to alter the registration and put me in there as someone who has been a naughty boy. I believe that sticks for at least 5 years. And trust me when I say you do NOT want a negative BKR registration...

They recently amended the law so as to consider cell phone subscriptions with which you get a "free" phone to be loans as well. This worked great at preventing idiots from getting a new subscription every 3 months just to get the latest iPhone.

Now this sytem does not apply to regular non-credit subscriptions like cable. If someone doesn't pay, the service provider just disconnects them. They may also block you from getting a subscription at a later date or they may have you pay a deposit first. But it's only AFTER you've been a bad boy. The company loses 2 monthly payments over it, boohoo, they've got plenty of money and it's called "risk of having a company".

Having said that, it's hard to compare the US with my own country so I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but I don't really think that a credit system like you have is much of a solution. Especially not when the system does not prevent you from getting 6 different credit cards with which you pay off the bills of the other credit cards. Back home, you would be hard pressed to even get a second credit card (i.e. BKR database comes into play).

Sorry for being so overly negative again. It's just that I don't like being treated as if I'm some financially irresponsible coot when I know I have my financials under control.

[P1]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

I do not have Comcast's budget.


They don't necessiraly have to, but not on the basis of the information provided by the current credit score IMHO.


I am not saying there shouldn't be checks in place, sorry for not being clear on that. There definitely should be some form of check.

The way things go back at home are IMHO, more fair while still being strict. If you apply for any type of credit, your credit provider will check your salary and check your "BKR" registration. It's basically a national database in which all your loans and mortages are registered. If you have sufficient salary to cover the loan payments and you have no "negative" BKR registration, you're likely good to go, no problem.

This is IMHO, a much fairer system where I, as a newcomer, am not considered to be someone who's likely not going to be paying his bills. Not guilty until proven otherwise if you will.

If I miss payments, my credit provider will ask BKR to alter the registration and put me in there as someone who has been a naughty boy. I believe that sticks for at least 5 years. And trust me when I say you do NOT want a negative BKR registration...

They recently amended the law so as to consider cell phone subscriptions with which you get a "free" phone to be loans as well. This worked great at preventing idiots from getting a new subscription every 3 months just to get the latest iPhone.

Now this sytem does not apply to regular non-credit subscriptions like cable. If someone doesn't pay, the service provider just disconnects them. They may also block you from getting a subscription at a later date or they may have you pay a deposit first. But it's only AFTER you've been a bad boy. The company loses 2 monthly payments over it, boohoo, they've got plenty of money and it's called "risk of having a company".

Having said that, it's hard to compare the US with my own country so I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but I don't really think that a credit system like you have is much of a solution. Especially not when the system does not prevent you from getting 6 different credit cards with which you pay off the bills of the other credit cards. Back home, you would be hard pressed to even get a second credit card (i.e. BKR database comes into play).

Sorry for being so overly negative again. It's just that I don't like being treated as if I'm some financially irresponsible coot when I know I have my financials under control.

I'm from Belgium, so trust me, I understand it from both sides...

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm from Belgium, so trust me, I understand it from both sides...

Aha, greetings former neighbour

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

I do not have Comcast's budget.


They don't necessiraly have to, but not on the basis of the information provided by the current credit score IMHO.


I am not saying there shouldn't be checks in place, sorry for not being clear on that. There definitely should be some form of check.

The way things go back at home are IMHO, more fair while still being strict. If you apply for any type of credit, your credit provider will check your salary and check your "BKR" registration. It's basically a national database in which all your loans and mortages are registered. If you have sufficient salary to cover the loan payments and you have no "negative" BKR registration, you're likely good to go, no problem.

This is IMHO, a much fairer system where I, as a newcomer, am not considered to be someone who's likely not going to be paying his bills. Not guilty until proven otherwise if you will.

If I miss payments, my credit provider will ask BKR to alter the registration and put me in there as someone who has been a naughty boy. I believe that sticks for at least 5 years. And trust me when I say you do NOT want a negative BKR registration...

They recently amended the law so as to consider cell phone subscriptions with which you get a "free" phone to be loans as well. This worked great at preventing idiots from getting a new subscription every 3 months just to get the latest iPhone.

Now this sytem does not apply to regular non-credit subscriptions like cable. If someone doesn't pay, the service provider just disconnects them. They may also block you from getting a subscription at a later date or they may have you pay a deposit first. But it's only AFTER you've been a bad boy. The company loses 2 monthly payments over it, boohoo, they've got plenty of money and it's called "risk of having a company".

Having said that, it's hard to compare the US with my own country so I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but I don't really think that a credit system like you have is much of a solution. Especially not when the system does not prevent you from getting 6 different credit cards with which you pay off the bills of the other credit cards. Back home, you would be hard pressed to even get a second credit card (i.e. BKR database comes into play).

Sorry for being so overly negative again. It's just that I don't like being treated as if I'm some financially irresponsible coot when I know I have my financials under control.

I don't remember the monetary or payment systems being any better when I was living in the Netherlands. Very different, but certainly not better.

I opened a bank account there within the first week of arriving because the only places that really accept credit cards are restaurants and department stores.

I find it a little ridiculous that you think a publicly owned company should be giving service to someone with no credit history, no residence and not even a bank account. That would bankrupt a company so quick it would make you dizzy. Perhaps you are not aware of the illegal immigration issues we have and how many people would be getting service and either be unwilling or unable to pay for it.

Credit system isn't a "solution" for anything it is just a different system all together.

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I don't remember the monetary or payment systems being any better when I was living in the Netherlands. Very different, but certainly not better.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, sorry you've had a bad experience.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I opened a bank account there within the first week of arriving because the only places that really accept credit cards are restaurants and department stores.

Yeah, as I said, everything is debit based. Nobody has a credit card because it's mostly useless. Credit card transactions are usually slower and more expensive than debit transactions. There is literally zero incentive to use them.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I find it a little ridiculous that you think a publicly owned company should be giving service to someone with no credit history, no residence and not even a bank account.

They don't have to. But they can without it being a problem for the overwhelming majority of people, back home at least I don't want to be punished because some people are financially irresponsible. It's like reverse socialism lol.

And I wouldn't lose a night's sleep over Comcast losing some money lol

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

That would bankrupt a company so quick it would make you dizzy.

I think that's not fair. I don't see Comcast going bankrupt if they'd stop checking for credit. And again, back home it works fine.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Perhaps you are not aware of the illegal immigration issues we have and how many people would be getting service and either be unwilling or unable to pay for it.

Illegal immigration is a whole other animal. I think we can both agree that it's a massive problem.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Credit system isn't a "solution" for anything it is just a different system all together.

Fair enough.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, sorry you've had a bad experience.

I never said I had a bad experience. I was saying, that although they are different, I don't think that makes one system inherently better.

I do agree that living in a society with no credit systems like ours may make your consumers more responsible so that you can have a little more trust when lending money over there (although even as I understand loans, it is very different as well)

I do like our housing and car prices a lot better here. Hearing that you had to pay a "luxury car tax" every 10 years on top of everything else for a decent car kind of blew my mind!

I do like the food scene, travel scene and no tipping over there. I also liked how pretty much every town has an amazing bakery. I had a good experience overall.

[stooker]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

I can see your point with regards to disputed charges, but honestly, I've never had to dispute a charge. I will however say that I'm real picky with what I buy and who/where I buy it from.

It's not just about disputes with stores/companies you actually do business with. This is also in regards to fraudulent charges, identity theft, etc. Credit cards are typically much better to deal with in getting charges removed from your bill. As stated before, with a debit card, the money is already debited from your account, and you may never get it back. Another way to look at it is, it's far easier to cancel debt (credit card) than it is to return money (debit card).

[No one]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

It's like reverse socialism lol.

And I wouldn't lose a night's sleep over Comcast losing some money lol

It's outright socialism.

Originally Posted by stooker

It's not just about disputes with stores/companies you actually do business with. This is also in regards to fraudulent charges, identity theft, etc. Credit cards are typically much better to deal with in getting charges removed from your bill. As stated before, with a debit card, the money is already debited from your account, and you may never get it back. Another way to look at it is, it's far easier to cancel debt (credit card) than it is to return money (debit card).

What's the difference? Someone is losing money in either case, I suppose. I'd guess credit dispute works better just because the bank cares about it's money (credit) a bit more than yours (debit). Furthermore, once you've lost money you might need a credit to make it even more interesting for them.

I absolutely don't get why I should spend money on credit when I don't need it (my debit account is sufficient). Cashback and points are bullshit cheating to seduce you into playing THEIR (making their profit, not yours, at your expense in particular) game: you get a little now to lose much then, I believe.

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by No one

I absolutely don't get why I should spend money on credit when I don't need it (my debit account is sufficient). Cashback and points are bullshit cheating to seduce you into playing THEIR (making their profit, not yours, at your expense in particular) game: you get a little now to lose much then, I believe.

If you are good with managing money then you are a FOOL if you don't take advantage of credit cards and cash back/incentives they offer. I'm not saying get one and buy shit you don't need, but you use it to pay your normal monthly bills or whatever and simply pay off the card at the end of the month. You're spending the same amount of money you would either way to pay the bills, BUT you're ALSO getting cash back for the money you would have spent anyways.

Put it this way, I got a free 1 week trip to Peru in October paid by my credit card from the cash back/incentives from using my credit card as stated.

[bd307]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

Hey all,

Tiny update. I've now been living in the US for about 3 months. Lancaster is not a very exciting place as most of you already pointed out, but I do kind of like the peace and quiet around here I miss my Bimmer though...

One thing I really dislike though is your completely retarded credit system :P I don't want a %^&^#$#! credit card, my debit card will do just fine, silly Americans :P

Not sure yet whether or not I'll actually stay here permanently or not.

Hey welcome. Do you mind sharing why you picked Lancaster? There are just so many better places in CA than Lancaster unless you are in some sort of military or contractor operations (Lockheed/Boeing/etc) associated with planes and jets.

Have you been to other parts of the US during these 3 months?

Consider building credit and using them are sort of a culture in the US. It is actually quite a tool once you get a hang of utilizing them like others have said.

What are you driving around in?

[No one]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

pay off the card at the end of the month

Can I skip this, please?

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by bd307

Hey welcome. Do you mind sharing why you picked Lancaster? There are just so many better places in CA than Lancaster unless you are in some sort of military or contractor operations (Lockheed/Boeing/etc) associated with planes and jets.

Have you been to other parts of the US during these 3 months?

Consider building credit and using them are sort of a culture in the US. It is actually quite a tool once you get a hang of utilizing them like others have said.

What are you driving around in?

Uhhhh... I think he's in Lancaster PA....

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

I do not have Comcast's budget.

They don't necessiraly have to, but not on the basis of the information provided by the current credit score IMHO.

I am not saying there shouldn't be checks in place, sorry for not being clear on that. There definitely should be some form of check.

The way things go back at home are IMHO, more fair while still being strict. If you apply for any type of credit, your credit provider will check your salary and check your "BKR" registration. It's basically a national database in which all your loans and mortages are registered. If you have sufficient salary to cover the loan payments and you have no "negative" BKR registration, you're likely good to go, no problem.

This is IMHO, a much fairer system where I, as a newcomer, am not considered to be someone who's likely not going to be paying his bills. Not guilty until proven otherwise if you will.

If I miss payments, my credit provider will ask BKR to alter the registration and put me in there as someone who has been a naughty boy. I believe that sticks for at least 5 years. And trust me when I say you do NOT want a negative BKR registration...

They recently amended the law so as to consider cell phone subscriptions with which you get a "free" phone to be loans as well. This worked great at preventing idiots from getting a new subscription every 3 months just to get the latest iPhone.

Now this sytem does not apply to regular non-credit subscriptions like cable. If someone doesn't pay, the service provider just disconnects them. They may also block you from getting a subscription at a later date or they may have you pay a deposit first. But it's only AFTER you've been a bad boy. The company loses 2 monthly payments over it, boohoo, they've got plenty of money and it's called "risk of having a company".

Having said that, it's hard to compare the US with my own country so I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but I don't really think that a credit system like you have is much of a solution. Especially not when the system does not prevent you from getting 6 different credit cards with which you pay off the bills of the other credit cards. Back home, you would be hard pressed to even get a second credit card (i.e. BKR database comes into play).

Sorry for being so overly negative again. It's just that I don't like being treated as if I'm some financially irresponsible coot when I know I have my financials under control.

Americans are pretty allergic to having national databases, and really anything that puts us in any sort of a box. A BKR database for credit/banking stuff wouldn't fly. One could argue we already have it, but there are actually 3+ private companies that "manage" the credit system. America also has pretty generous bankruptcy provisions, which makes all companies more conservative in extending credit.

[stooker]

Originally Posted by No one

It's outright socialism.



What's the difference? Someone is losing money in either case, I suppose. I'd guess credit dispute works better just because the bank cares about it's money (credit) a bit more than yours (debit). Furthermore, once you've lost money you might need a credit to make it even more interesting for them.

I absolutely don't get why I should spend money on credit when I don't need it (my debit account is sufficient). Cashback and points are bullshit cheating to seduce you into playing THEIR (making their profit, not yours, at your expense in particular) game: you get a little now to lose much then, I believe.

Dude, I wasn't making a commentary on the credit card system. OP said he didn't think it was an issue disputing charges on his debit card because he is careful with what he buys and from whom. I offered a counterpoint to what I believe is a faulty assumption that fraudulent charges or disputes are only with companies you do business with. You actually seem to be in agreement with that, because yes, it is

As with the US credit system, individual choice to play the game to improve credit rating, but can't get mad when rejected for a line of credit, or incur very high interest rates. I maintain a zero balance on my credit card, which I have had for 15 years, I live within my means, and am never late on any bills. I've accumulated tons of points on my card and have benefited from many free or significantly reduced airfare and car rentals. Most recently, I had to rent a three-row SUV in Iceland for a trip with the family, and it would have been well over $2,000, but I paid all but $300 for the entire trip. I don't trade in points for useless Sharper Image shit, although I still have enough points left for that sweet 18-bottle wine fridge.

I don't lose sleep knowing that my card benefits have been subsidized by financially non-responsible people. I've been there, done that in my youth. Had significant credit card debt with high interest accounts for several years after college, but dug my way and have never looked back.

[No one]

Originally Posted by stooker

I maintain a zero balance on my credit card, which I have had for 15 years, I live within my means, and am never late on any bills. I've accumulated tons of points on my card and have benefited from many free or significantly reduced airfare and car rentals. Most recently, I had to rent a three-row SUV in Iceland for a trip with the family, and it would have been well over $2,000, but I paid all but $300 for the entire trip. I don't trade in points for useless Sharper Image shit, although I still have enough points left for that sweet 18-bottle wine fridge.

I don't lose sleep knowing that my card benefits have been subsidized by financially non-responsible people. I've been there, done that in my youth. Had significant credit card debt with high interest accounts for several years after college, but dug my way and have never looked back.

So, you don't pay for having your credit card then? "Financially non-responsible people" (rather than yourself) buy those "tons of points" for you? I wouldn't call that non-responsible. Looks like some absurd: the one who pays actually does not, the ones who don't pay actually do.

[stooker]

Originally Posted by No one

So, you don't pay for having your credit card then? "Financially non-responsible people" (rather than yourself) buy those "tons of points" for you? I wouldn't call that non-responsible. Looks like some absurd: the one who pays actually does not, the ones who don't pay actually do.

Not sure what you are getting at...

No-fee card, zero balance = no paid interest. I use the card for everyday purchases, and the points rack up. I maintain no balance and pay in full so I pay zero interest. The card company gets nothing from me. They obviously don't give the shit for points away for free, and so the cost is levied on those who do pay interest.

[No one]

Originally Posted by stooker

Not sure what you are getting at...

No-fee card, zero balance = no paid interest. I use the card for everyday purchases, and the points rack up. I maintain no balance and pay in full so I pay zero interest. The card company gets nothing from me. They obviously don't give the shit for points away for free, and so the cost is levied on those who do pay interest.

I mean I can't believe they don't charge you for the benefits you get (this must be a way to "share" their profit from you, not others, otherwise it looks just pointless). Thanks for the information anyway.

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Uhhhh... I think he's in Lancaster PA....

I gotta ask.. What the hell was the OP thinking to choose Lancaster, PA, of all places!??

[geogerf]

Originally Posted by stooker

Not sure what you are getting at...

No-fee card, zero balance = no paid interest. I use the card for everyday purchases, and the points rack up. I maintain no balance and pay in full so I pay zero interest. The card company gets nothing from me. They obviously don't give the shit for points away for free, and so the cost is levied on those who do pay interest.

Credit cards also get a fee per transaction, it is not solely paid for by those that make the min payments (although that’s big, don’t get me wrong).

Ever see the sign, “No credit card purchases below $X”?

[stooker]

Originally Posted by geogerf

Credit cards also get a fee per transaction, it is not solely paid for by those that make the min payments (although that’s big, don’t get me wrong).

Ever see the sign, “No credit card purchases below $X”?

Yes, I know that, and from my understanding debit cards as well, albeit a lower fee. However, I would guess the money from transaction fees is probably more to cover the cost of card machines, network, etc., and not so much a rewards program.

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by bd307

Hey welcome. Do you mind sharing why you picked Lancaster? There are just so many better places in CA than Lancaster unless you are in some sort of military or contractor operations (Lockheed/Boeing/etc) associated with planes and jets.

Have you been to other parts of the US during these 3 months?

Consider building credit and using them are sort of a culture in the US. It is actually quite a tool once you get a hang of utilizing them like others have said.

What are you driving around in?

I didn't really pick Lancaster. The "main office" (not really the main office) just happens to be located in Lancaster, PA. The alternative would have been Des Moines, IL, but they pretty much dismantled the department I'd be working for there. Not sure if it would have been better

Oh, no, unfortunately not. I did spend about a week and a half near St. Louis, MO, but that was a business trip and I had no time to do any sightseeing (other than watching the new Star Wars movie at a cinema in St. Charles).

I'm driving my boss's Hyundai Sonata. Not exactly a fun car to drive haha.

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Americans are pretty allergic to having national databases, and really anything that puts us in any sort of a box. A BKR database for credit/banking stuff wouldn't fly. One could argue we already have it, but there are actually 3+ private companies that "manage" the credit system. America also has pretty generous bankruptcy provisions, which makes all companies more conservative in extending credit.

I don't see how everything being tied to your social security number is any different. In fact, I would argue that that's worse. Back home, my cable company isn't even allowed to process my social security number, nor do they have any insight into my financials (and rightly so, it's none of their damn business). It's illegal by law because it increases the chance of identity theft. Yet here, everything is tied to your social.

In my experience so far, I've noticed that US companies don't seem to care about consumer privacy either. Oh, we're the only ones servicing your specific area? Here are our draconian terms on what we can and will do with your personal data.

Sorry for being so overly negative, but I really dislike the way consumers are treated here in some instances.

Originally Posted by StraightAero

I gotta ask.. What the hell was the OP thinking to choose Lancaster, PA, of all places!??

To be honest, I don't live in Lancaster itself. I live outside the city in a really quiet neighbourhood. I don't know what it's like in Lancaster itself (I never really go there anyways).

Originally Posted by stooker

Yes, I know that, and from my understanding debit cards as well, albeit a lower fee. However, I would guess the money from transaction fees is probably more to cover the cost of card machines, network, etc., and not so much a rewards program.

Ugh, sorry for being so negative yet again, but this is another thing that royally pisses me off. US banks are either still living in the 80s or they need money to sponsor their "rewards" programs. Online banking is stuck in the 90s and is very inflexible. Charging a fee for checking your account balance on an ATM? Seriously? Sorry, but that is just pathetic.

My bank does not charge me for debit transactions. If they decide to start doing so, I'll close my account and start using my Dutch account again. At least they don't charge me for literally everything even when I'm in the US.

Other than the extremist capitalist companies I do still like it here after nearly four months It's a nice country, met good people, learned a lot. Even if I decide not to stay here, I will certainly come back to visit it in the future. In the meantime I'll do my best to not be an annoying filthy foreigner

If it helps any, I pay US taxes and am not taking anything out of the system :P