[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by footie

My apologizes, I misunderstood your question. I must admit I thought it was a bit odd that you wouldn't have done the basic maths yourself.

I honestly don't know the 'in-gear' times of the S4, I would doubt that based on the outright acceleration figures and it's torque curve that the S4 wouldn't at least match or better the 335i. Though until tested we have no way of knowing this of sure.



For the 335i to be only 0.4s slower to 50mph (80km/h) compared to the S4 which has awd and incredible traction off the line we can only assume that this 'greasy' road wasn't all that bad after all. But can you say at which point the 335i hasn't got traction issues, could it be 50mph or possibly 60mph? My point is that even when traction is taken out of the equation the S4 is still pulling away by a rate of knots.

Also I totally respect Sportauto's reviews, I am only curious as to why their opinion was different to the other two independent tests. I reckon their requirements might have been different, possibly they prefer the more playful character of the rwd 335i over the more secure awd S4. I wouldn't argue with that opinion, after all I changed from an awd S5 to a rwd M3 but I doubt that their figures differ that much from the ones we all ready have which show the S4 to be quicker in every way.

A picture is worth a 1,000 words,those roads looked greasy to me go back and look at the large pic.The roads looked damp,snow covered grounds. You think low temps and damp roads won't affect traction and give an AWD an advantage?

Maybe you should wait for more comparasons instead of jumping to conclusions based on one test by AMS and ignoring the more respected SportAuto's that gives the 335i the win.

We're not comparing Muscle cars here,you don't judge the S4 and 335i based mainly on straight line racing anyway not that the S4 is quicker on dry roads.

[NewSong]

Can we just close this thread? The fanboys have trolled any value out of it.

I mean, c'mon, "Greasy roads" ???

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Can we just close this thread? The fanboys have trolled any value out of it.

I mean, c'mon, "Greasy roads" ???

Please don't get all emotional just stick with the facts. Most performance tires have this warning:"not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures..."

Have you driven a 335i in near freezing temps on summer tires? RE050 are Max Performance Summer tires.

Here some passing numbers from AMS,shows the roads were slick



80-120km/h (5th/6th gear) S4: 6.2/7.8 sec 335i: 6.5/7.8 sec


Above 50 mph the numbers get closer even in temps near freezing,not bad at all going against an AWD.

[V1.47fan]

PS: Look at the ground around the wheels in the scan above,looks like wet snow and the pic below shows the road condition and snow on the ground.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by AW325xi

It's very odd to me that a car what weighs 200lbs more with not much more HP is faster.
I'm also wondering why the BMW only had 17" wheels. I don't speak German to know if the BMW even had the sport suspension.

Same here and the RWD 335i they used had 225-45 17 tires Vs the AWD on 245-40 18 tires.

The AWD gives power to all wheels and gets wider tires,the 335i only gives power to 2 wheels gets 225's not to mention OAT near freezing.

[footie]

Well thanks for showing us the 'ingear' times, my guess that both would be pretty evenly matched was right.

Still struggling to agree with your opinion that the 335 was suffering because of the conditions, especially as the speed increases where I might add the S4 continued to pull away regardless of the 335 version it was up against.

Also, a small point about the photo and the acceleration times, how do you know the test was conducted on that road and even on that very day. In Northern Ireland the weather is so varied that one day can be wet and the next bone dry, though I am not saying this is the case here but it's always a possibility.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by footie

Well thanks for showing us the 'ingear' times, my guess that both would be pretty evenly matched was right.

Still struggling to agree with your opinion that the 335 was suffering because of the conditions, especially as the speed increases where I might add the S4 continued to pull away regardless of the 335 version it was up against.

Also, a small point about the photo and the acceleration times, how do you know the test was conducted on that road and even on that very day. In Northern Ireland the weather is so varied that one day can be wet and the next bone dry, though I am not saying this is the case here but it's always a possibility.

Take your M3 on PS2's in the middle of winter and drive it hard on dry roads, you'd break loose more easily than in the middle of summer and the 335i has way more torque making things worse.Enough to lower your 0-60 numbers by .6 sec

Also you take an AWD on 245's vs a RWD on 225's even in the summer the AWD would've an advantage.If you track or tracked your cars you should know this...

AMS could've gotten a 335i with sport pack with 255's in the rear not that it would've made that much difference having summer tires equipped cars being tested in the middle of winter but in the summer it would've with acceleration the one measurement you really interested in.

[footie]

Trust me mate I know enough about proper competition and not just trackdays. So you believe that the only reason for the 335 didn't beat the S4 on each of the occasions that the two cars have been tested together is either the road surface being used or the tyres which happen to be on the car at the time then nothing I or anyone else will change that opinion so there's on point in trying, I have given you perfectly good explanations why the S4 will and is quicker.

Though I might add that the one test where the 335 did win was with Sportauto, who's 335 was equipped with the narrower tyre and actually produced it's best lap time. So all that earlier BS about tracking you car and should know which is better means nothing.

P.S.
I have already done a run in the M3 on a damp surface and my 1/4mile time was 13s @ 112mph. So maybe it's your driving skills that are in question and not the car.

[Year's_End]

this thread is just annoying now.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

this thread is just annoying now.

Anytime the fanboys jump into a thread, it just goes downhill. This thread is no different.

/END THREAD

[OverDrive]

Originally Posted by footie

Trust me mate I know enough about proper competition and not just trackdays. So you believe that the only reason for the 335 didn't beat the S4 on each of the occasions that the two cars have been tested together is either the road surface being used or the tyres which happen to be on the car at the time then nothing I or anyone else will change that opinion so there's on point in trying, I have given you perfectly good explanations why the S4 will and is quicker.

Though I might add that the one test where the 335 did win was with Sportauto, who's 335 was equipped with the narrower tyre and actually produced it's best lap time. So all that earlier BS about tracking you car and should know which is better means nothing.

P.S.
I have already done a run in the M3 on a damp surface and my 1/4mile time was 13s @ 112mph. So maybe it's your driving skills that are in question and not the car.

I don't really think that driving skills have much to do with it. No matter how good of a driver you are, you can't break the laws of physics.

P.S. Your M3 has the M-DCT and launch control so I don't think you had much influence in that ET, which is kind of slow for an M3 in the first place.
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DODGE MIRADA
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WELLBUTRIN SETTLEMENT INFO

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Anytime the fanboys jump into a thread, it just goes downhill. This thread is no different.

/END THREAD

i wouldn't say there are any fanboys here. they're both showing figures and info to back up their arguments so it's not blind loyalty. i'm just tired of seeing this argument go back and forth getting absolutely no where.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

The roads looked damp,snow covered grounds. You think low temps and damp roads won't affect traction and give an AWD an advantage?

We're not comparing Muscle cars here,you don't judge the S4 and 335i based mainly on straight line racing anyway not that the S4 is quicker on dry roads.

Well here's how I see it. The number posted for S4 is on slick road as well therefore under dry conditions the S4 will post the same number if not better. That said the current S4 numbers in wet/grease are just as quick if not tad quicker than 335i numbers we seen in the dry. So the S4 will pretty much edge over the 335i under any condition and probably the overall winner.

RWD is not an excuse for the 335i in losing but a weakness under this test. An Audi driver in a race will not hesitate to rev and overtake a RWD BMW under bad road condition. Reasons why you don't bring a RWD car to a rally race. Now there are many reasons people prefer RWD but that's irrelevant personal preference that does not factor into this comparison.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

i wouldn't say there are any fanboys here. they're both showing figures and info to back up their arguments so it's not blind loyalty. i'm just tired of seeing this argument go back and forth getting absolutely no where.

Figures are one thing, but snide and rude comments are another. Fanboyism at its worst. I'm done with this thread.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Figures are one thing, but snide and rude comments are another. Fanboyism at its worst. I'm done with this thread.

well you should never be too quick to label people as fanboys, if you catch my drift.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

well you should never be too quick to label people as fanboys, if you catch my drift.

What was that fanbo...err... Bimmer Loyalist?

[footie]

Firstly and foremost, I got my results without LC and if you had read any of my postson the subject of LC you would have known that.

Secondly, I am not a fanboy I hate them, especially when blind brand loyality doesn't listen to reason. I openly admit that rwd is more entertaining and that is part of the reason I chose the M3 in the first place, but on car ability vs driver ability the awd setup is much better, not only in acceleration but in cornering.

[Mu Mu]

Audi Won

/End Thread



Seriously though. Its time BMW got a wake up call! Think about it! It will push beemer to make their next generation model better and stop playing catch up...so in the end, competition is good, and in a highly competitive world like BMW/AUDI/MERC. One can never stay on top forever...guys get over the 335 losing and be happy that at least you have more variety in the automotive world!

[LODOSS]

Does it have gearing info? I would guess that the S4 has a short 5th gear and a very long 6th gear (fuel efficient). Where the BMW has long 5th and 6th.

[gshb]

bmw wouldnt be the brand that it is without fanboys. respect the fanboy.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by footie

Trust me mate I know enough about proper competition and not just trackdays. So you believe that the only reason for the 335 didn't beat the S4 on each of the occasions that the two cars have been tested together is either the road surface being used or the tyres which happen to be on the car at the time then nothing I or anyone else will change that opinion so there's on point in trying, I have given you perfectly good explanations why the S4 will and is quicker.

Though I might add that the one test where the 335 did win was with Sportauto, who's 335 was equipped with the narrower tyre and actually produced it's best lap time. So all that earlier BS about tracking you car and should know which is better means nothing.

P.S.
I have already done a run in the M3 on a damp surface and my 1/4mile time was 13s @ 112mph. So maybe it's your driving skills that are in question and not the car.

Just because Europeans can't get their 335i's to do 0-60 in sub 5's that doesn't mean the S4 is quicker,a lot of people here got their stock 335i's to 60 in sub 5's.

The S4 is quicker on slick roads yes,i'd give you that. It's also quicker than the Enzo on snow covered roads.

It would be misleading to put out general statements like,the new S4 crushes the Enzo or The S4 is quicker than the Enzo.

A more appropriate statement would be the S4 is quicker than the Enzo on snow packed roads.

Why do you think drag strips close the track when temps drop below 40F,wet etc?


I'm done with this thread too.

[S4to335]

The important thing here is that the 335i and the new S4 are very comparable...driver skill plays more into how it handles on the drag strip...on the road race track or at a gymkana/autocross course..or just on freeway onramp. I am not an Audi fanboy or a BMW fanboy..I have owned both..several times. I can see the merits of each. Cant we just agree that they are very close..and worth consideration?