[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

On the subject.

“DoorDash driver curses woman out for 25% tip on $20 order: ‘Nice house for $5 tip’”

https://nypost.com/2023/07/04/doorda...p-on-20-order/

Its always interesting to hear the conversation among people who actually drive. So many of them talk about refusing order that don't come with what I'd consider a absurdly generous tip for delivery. I get that they are just trying to make the best deal for themselves, but the customer having to tip up front and the driver KNOWING the tip before delivering is just asking for a super toxic environment.

[jzx_andy]

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

I get that they are just trying to make the best deal for themselves, but the customer having to tip up front and the driver KNOWING the tip before delivering is just asking for a super toxic environment.

This. I will not tip someone just because a shitty employer or government wage system tries to coerce the consumer into tipping, or makes service providers feel some sort of entitlement when they are providing a basic service at very ordinary standards. These predatory practices do not deserve to be rewarded in any way IMHO.

Tipping is done best when it rewards exceptional service or advice - something that is of actual economic value to the consumer.

I understand some industries are more conducive to generating tips than others are, like a factory worker has absolutely zero chance of receiving tips in his/her job, etc. But that is not a problem that is resolved by normalising tipping in every industry. That is resolved by having adequate minimum wages, working conditions, some level of relativity in bargaining powers between workers and business owners, and business owners and investors running a profitable business to begin with. Just because Uber makes zero profit doesn't mean we should feel obligated to chip in and pay their workers and perpetuate what is essentially a failed business model. That money is better spent on services that deserve to exist in my view.

I will probably tip someone if he/she goes above and beyond expectations with the level of service that I receive, or if he/she gives me free advice that leads to me going for an alternative elsewhere that leads to me saving some money. And if he/she doesn't ask for a dime in return, I sure as hell will make a point of tipping and going out of my way to tell their employer and everyone else how exceptional the service was.

[Nachbar]

Someone posted on Twitter

[RichF90M5C]

Originally Posted by Nachbar

Someone posted on Twitter

I'd demand that be removed from the bill. They can't force you to pay that. I've been to restaurants with shitty service, and told them to put the total through the card machine WITHOUT the tip. They don't like it, but there's nothing they can do legally.

[Fantastipotamus]

Would happily pay 4% so the restaurant can give their staff health insurance. Thats a huge benefit to working at that restaurant, likely helping to decrease staff turnover -> fewer trainees -> better food quality.

Also, if you have universal healthcare in your country (UK and Switzerland, for a few random examples!) then you should feel pity for the restaurant staff who don't have a system like this one above.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by RichF90M5C

I'd demand that be removed from the bill. They can't force you to pay that. I've been to restaurants with shitty service, and told them to put the total through the card machine WITHOUT the tip. They don't like it, but there's nothing they can do legally.

They just want people to know they provide health insurance to employees so someone can tell them how nice they are or they do it to protest the Obamacare mandates to provide insurance many years later. They need to just work that into prices and stop the nonsense.

Originally Posted by Fantastipotamus

Would happily pay 4% so the restaurant can give their staff health insurance. Thats a huge benefit to working at that restaurant, likely helping to decrease staff turnover -> fewer trainees -> better food quality.

Also, if you have universal healthcare in your country (UK and Switzerland, for a few random examples!) then you should feel pity for the restaurant staff who don't have a system like this one above.

How do you even know 4% is representative of the cost? Also, you do pay it everywhere else that provides insurance for employees. You just don't have it flagged for your enjoyment. Should we also have surcharges for sick time and PTO, holiday pay, group life, 401(K) match, etc.? Imagine if you went to a store to buy groceries, or got auto service, or any other purchases and see that type of bullshit on the bill. It's unnecessary to do that when you can just price the product or service properly.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by Fantastipotamus

Would happily pay 4% so the restaurant can give their staff health insurance. Thats a huge benefit to working at that restaurant, likely helping to decrease staff turnover -> fewer trainees -> better food quality.

Also, if you have universal healthcare in your country (UK and Switzerland, for a few random examples!) then you should feel pity for the restaurant staff who don't have a system like this one above.

can you pay for mine too? and a few others? hell why not everyones


just a slippery slope, and why someone created this thread

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by Fantastipotamus

Would happily pay 4% so the restaurant can give their staff health insurance. Thats a huge benefit to working at that restaurant, likely helping to decrease staff turnover -> fewer trainees -> better food quality.

Also, if you have universal healthcare in your country (UK and Switzerland, for a few random examples!) then you should feel pity for the restaurant staff who don't have a system like this one above.

And the reason they do it that way is to mislead consumers about prices so menu prices don’t go up and then guilt trip them into paying the surcharge. Its the same debundling BS all sorts of businesses try so they can hide the real cost. By the time you notice, its too late. If they really felt strongly about health care they would price it into the menu and the better quality service they would retain would support the higher prices.

[vreihen16]

"All of our menu items include a 4% markup, so we can provide our valuable staff with health insurance."

But what about the not-so-valuable staff?????

[KevinC]

Just raise prices by 4% and provide insurance, if that's what you really want to do. Customers can decide if your pricing still provides value and choose whether or not to patronize your establishment. By putting it on as a surcharge and allowing the customer to "ask to have it removed" you're putting the customer in a shitty position with the server if he/she asks to have it removed.

[Fantastipotamus]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

How do you even know 4% is representative of the cost? Also, you do pay it everywhere else that provides insurance for employees. You just don't have it flagged for your enjoyment. Should we also have surcharges for sick time and PTO, holiday pay, group life, 401(K) match, etc.? Imagine if you went to a store to buy groceries, or got auto service, or any other purchases and see that type of bullshit on the bill. It's unnecessary to do that when you can just price the product or service properly.

I don't know that 4% is representative, but I also don't care? It's very likely it only helps to offset the cost. Also, these are hourly wage earners with (as mentioned) high turnover, so they don't get paid sick time, PTO, holidays or have a 401k - so the fact they have any insurance at all is a step in the right direction IMO. And i mention it below, but there are any number of reasons it isn't priced in (yet) - who knows what the scenario is here.

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

can you pay for mine too? and a few others? hell why not everyones


just a slippery slope, and why someone created this thread

It's not a slippery slope, it's called universal healthcare, and we should have it here, then particular discussion would be moot. I certainly will not say the healthcare system doesn't need a massive overhaul, but getting everyone covered should be the priority.

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

And the reason they do it that way is to mislead consumers about prices so menu prices don’t go up and then guilt trip them into paying the surcharge. Its the same debundling BS all sorts of businesses try so they can hide the real cost. By the time you notice, its too late. If they really felt strongly about health care they would price it into the menu and the better quality service they would retain would support the higher prices.

While I agree it would be nice to have it priced in, there could be any number of reasons why they don't? Maybe it's brand new and they're still working through the machinations. It's unexpected they offer it, and it could also be a point of pride for the owners.

[RickFLM4]

Also WTF is the $3 "water donation" on that receipt?

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Fantastipotamus

I don't know that 4% is representative, but I also don't care? It's very likely it only helps to offset the cost. Also, these are hourly wage earners with (as mentioned) high turnover, so they don't get paid sick time, PTO, holidays or have a 401k - so the fact they have any insurance at all is a step in the right direction IMO. And i mention it below, but there are any number of reasons it isn't priced in (yet) - who knows what the scenario is here.

It's not a slippery slope, it's called universal healthcare, and we should have it here, then particular discussion would be moot. I certainly will not say the healthcare system doesn't need a massive overhaul, but getting everyone covered should be the priority.


While I agree it would be nice to have it priced in, there could be any number of reasons why they don't? Maybe it's brand new and they're still working through the machinations. It's unexpected they offer it, and it could also be a point of pride for the owners.

Wow talk about missing the point.

Why is this ok at a restaurant but nowhere else, which also have other benefits as well?

[Rocket455]

I haven't stopped tipping, but I absolutely resent the growing sense of entitlement that some people/places have with the entire tipping culture (Door Dash driver cussing out a patron for tipping "just" 25% of the order, or being required to tip with zero human interaction or service; tons of examples in the thread already). Disgusting.

[Fantastipotamus]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Wow talk about missing the point.

Why is this ok at a restaurant but nowhere else, which also have other benefits as well?

Because this is a restaurant, which IS the point. It's rare that it's offered, and frankly, if I had to guess from the other side of the country, they're probably proud of it and thus don't price it in.

Originally Posted by Rocket455

I haven't stopped tipping, but I absolutely resent the growing sense of entitlement that some people/places have with the entire tipping culture (Door Dash driver cussing out a patron for tipping "just" 25% of the order, or being required to tip with zero human interaction or service; tons of examples in the thread already). Disgusting.

And for the record - I agree with Rocket455. If I did the work myself (like in the instance of 'what, no tip?' at that airport kiosk scenario), i'll be tipping zero there. And that driver ought to be fired, assuming there's not more to the story (it's NYpost, so buyer beware).

That being said, I tip well generally. Food generally gets ~30%, haircuts usually $20 on top of $25.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Fantastipotamus

Because this is a restaurant, which IS the point. It's rare that it's offered, and frankly, if I had to guess from the other side of the country, they're probably proud of it and thus don't price it in.

Oh I see, you lack reading comprehension skills and wish only to bait into a political debate you can't win. I'll pass.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

sigh, this will again get nowhere. some believe its all good and fair up until the point where they get strapped for cash. these same people are likely in debt and not spending their own money and generously tipping. Again, the argument isn't healthcare and this thread shouldn't get derailed there, but a very common tactic even in car sales is to decontruct the price and use it to justify high costs. its tends to be a guilt trip and total bullshit.

the fact of the matter is waiters are totally useless. A kiosk on the table with runners is far more efficient and pleasant. But no one wants to have that conversation.

doordashers and such, idk I don't use that shit because I don't like to tip

my valets open the door for me, shit irks me. offer me to carry my things, get a cart. like I can do everything myself, ergo I don't need to tip lol.

Theres a chicken and rice cart, shit cost 5 bucks. Dude always hooks my platter up with the correct amount of sauce. I threw him a c note last christmas. That is a tip based on service. He provides great service regardless of a FORCED tipping architecure.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

sigh, this will again get nowhere. some believe its all good and fair up until the point where they get strapped for cash. these same people are likely in debt and not spending their own money and generously tipping. Again, the argument isn't healthcare and this thread shouldn't get derailed there, but a very common tactic even in car sales is to decontruct the price and use it to justify high costs. its tends to be a guilt trip and total bullshit.

the fact of the matter is waiters are totally useless. A kiosk on the table with runners is far more efficient and pleasant. But no one wants to have that conversation.

doordashers and such, idk I don't use that shit because I don't like to tip

my valets open the door for me, shit irks me. offer me to carry my things, get a cart. like I can do everything myself, ergo I don't need to tip lol.

Theres a chicken and rice cart, shit cost 5 bucks. Dude always hooks my platter up with the correct amount of sauce. I threw him a c note last christmas. That is a tip based on service. He provides great service regardless of a FORCED tipping architecure.

Dumbass dealers should have just renamed all their shady dealer fees to benefits for our staff fee and everyone would love them for it apparently.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Fantastipotamus

...

Also, if you have universal healthcare in your country (UK and Switzerland, for a few random examples!) then you should feel pity for the restaurant staff who don't have a system like this one above.

You need to check out the true cost of "free." Wait until the administrators tell the subscribers how to live their lives to control costs. Better start eating what you're told, exercise how much and when you're told, etc. I'll never forget 0Bummer telling a questioner about UHC that maybe their mother should take a pill instead of getting her much needed heart surgery. Under UHC, my brother with Down Syndrome wouldn't have lived to the ripe old age of 59. He would have been denied the medical care he needed as the money used to care for him would have been spent on someone who was a "productive member of society."

"Free universal" anything isn't free or universal.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Nachbar

Someone posted on Twitter

My tip goes down by $5.00.

[Fantastipotamus]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Oh I see, you lack reading comprehension skills and wish only to bait into a political debate you can't win. I'll pass.

It's only political if you'd like it to be. I'm not much of a debater, personally. My point here is this, in the other examples you provided, the employer providing health insurance is typically part of gig.. so there's no reason to call it out at the bottom line (though they certainly could and i wouldn't care). However, and I will say this again for like the fourth time - it is VERY UNCOMMON in the restaurant industry to provide health insurance for your non-management staff.

The more we talk about this, the more I think they call it out as they're proud of it.

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

You need to check out the true cost of "free." Wait until the administrators tell the subscribers how to live their lives to control costs. Better start eating what you're told, exercise how much and when you're told, etc. I'll never forget 0Bummer telling a questioner about UHC that maybe their mother should take a pill instead of getting her much needed heart surgery. Under UHC, my brother with Down Syndrome wouldn't have lived to the ripe old age of 59. He would have been denied the medical care he needed as the money used to care for him would have been spent on someone who was a "productive member of society."

"Free universal" anything isn't free or universal.

First off, i never said free. No one assumes this will be free (except maybe Bernie), but I never said free.

Also, I'm also not going to say that universal healthcare isn't without it's own issues. And honestly, that's great for your brother, truly (no sarcasm), the point is that you were able to afford it and MANY others cannot. Rest assured that, for the wealthy (aka most of us here, arguing about a $5 charge when the REAL robbery here is $19 for friggin lettuce bruschetta?? Wth) the current system is preferable because we can afford coverage.

In any case, i'm not sure why i waded into the waters of defending this change based on the tone in this thread already set. Arguing on the internet, etc etc. Have a good day, chaps.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Also WTF is the $3 "water donation" on that receipt?

All these funny charges are a feature of CA. Shocker right? Not saying other states aren't doing this but, I first saw this at a taqueria 5-6 years ago that my wife and I would frequent when we'd visit. I requested they remove it from the bill. As I was leaving the restaurant I thought about how it's a slick little add-on because most people (>90%) likely will not quibble over such a nominal sum and what appears to be a noble cause.