[BigRam7151]

Speakers sound better than the prior ones.

I personally don’t find the area of cost cutting to be of value. It’s not something that substantially changes the experience of the car in any real way. I actually think they were smart about it. In terms of a lease where I am dumping the car in 3 years I’m not overly concerned about durability either of said materials. BMW has gone through ups and down in terms of material quality like every other car company has. At the end of the day the car is fun to drive and the tech functions well. The stuff people are complaining about are not relevant to me or most people that are buying the car. I hope it improves and when it does start to bother most of us then bmw will improve it when sales start lagging.

To assume they are cutting every single aspect of the car because there are plastic handles(it’s extremely cheap to machine some aluminum handles), sun roof(I’m not entirely convinced this one was entirely cost cutting) and metal runners were taken off is not really a logical perspective. There are areas with upgrades and areas of downgrades. It’s a 50k dollar car with small margins.

[Germanauto]

The interior looks really downmarket in real life, both in design and quality.

From an interior standpoint I think for the first time I can recall, Mercedes has a BMW beat. The Genesis GV70 too, interior is exceptional on those.

But then again, neither of those offer anything comparable to the B58..

[MidnightLight]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

From an interior standpoint I think for the first time I can recall, Mercedes has a BMW beat. The Genesis GV70 too, interior is exceptional on those.

For the first time? Mercedes has always had a slight edge over BMW with respect to interior luxury and comfort. And Genesis has been going all out and beating everyone else at the same price point.

Though from what I've seen, Mercedes has been cutting back recently as well. So this seems to be an industry-wide trend driven by factors beyond an individual company's control.

[JOHNBMWM5]

I am not really surprised as all the car producers are paying a £15K premium for petrol/diesel cars over the lack of EV sales here in the UK and probably were you are too.
We don't want EV sales prove that, remove this embargo.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by JOHNBMWM5

I am not really surprised as all the car producers are paying a £15K premium for petrol/diesel cars over the lack of EV sales here in the UK and probably were you are too.
We don't want EV sales prove that, remove this embargo.

BMW simply wants to maximise profit by removing cost. It’s under pressure on a number of fronts, and the bean counters are leading the charge.

It’s already been reported the quality of the interior isn’t what BMW wished for, according to BMW executives.

The ZEV mandate penalties you mention is an issue here, but not sure it applies to the US. However, it will affect BMW corporate in the EU.

The ratio of ZEV EV to ICE rises to 28% in 2025, 52% in 2028, and 80% by 2030.

At present EV sales have stalled here, and are projected not to meet the 2024 penalty ratio of 22%. Only thing propping up EV sales here is business fleet buyers, due to lower BIK.

In addition higher VED will apply to EV here from April 2025, and will also be retrospectively applied to existing EV’s to varying degrees.

https://news.sky.com/story/car-indus...stall-13227044

[Mavus]

well folks we may need to add Durango to the list

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2027...v-future-cars/

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by MidnightLight

For the first time? Mercedes has always had a slight edge over BMW with respect to interior luxury and comfort. And Genesis has been going all out and beating everyone else at the same price point.

Though from what I've seen, Mercedes has been cutting back recently as well. So this seems to be an industry-wide trend driven by factors beyond an individual company's control.

Generally speaking, Mercedes interior material quality and fit-finish are a par below. Even on a new S-class I've noticed crooked stitching, GLS with hard plastic on lower half of the doors, etc. But BMW has definitely downgraded the X3's interior both visually and from a material quality standpoint, where the new GLC's interior seems nicer.

[blackpear]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Generally speaking, Mercedes interior material quality and fit-finish are a par below. Even on a new S-class I've noticed crooked stitching, GLS with hard plastic on lower half of the doors, etc. But BMW has definitely downgraded the X3's interior both visually and from a material quality standpoint, where the new GLC's interior seems nicer.

I suspect a lot of this is to do with EU net zero targets and some greenwashing.
By removing the metal trim and uneccessary bits (e.g. door treads, tactile buttons) and using recycled plastic everywhere instead, manufacturers can claim to be much more environmentally friendly and hit government set targets for energy and co2 emissions. Those in the US may not be aware how tightly this is controlled in the UK and EU.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by blackpear

I suspect a lot of this is to do with EU net zero targets and some greenwashing.
By removing the metal trim and uneccessary bits (e.g. door treads, tactile buttons) and using recycled plastic everywhere instead, manufacturers can claim to be much more environmentally friendly and hit government set targets for energy and co2 emissions. Those in the US may not be aware how tightly this is controlled in the UK and EU.

Yet Volo, probably one of the first down the green path and eco focus, make high quality, minimalist interiors, which look and feel premium.

[blackpear]

Originally Posted by avi66

Yet Volo, probably one of the first down the green path and eco focus, make high quality, minimalist interiors, which look and feel premium.

I wonder if a Chinese/Swedish manufacturer is under the same eco pressures as Germany, which is notoriously green politically. I suspect not. Germany imports most of it’s energy, but does Sweden?

[avi66]

Originally Posted by blackpear

I wonder if a Chinese/Swedish manufacturer is under the same eco pressures as Germany, which is notoriously green politically. I suspect not. Germany imports most of it’s energy, but does Sweden?

I’m not sure if Germany exports energy to the US and South Africa, or all the other places around the world where it manufacturing cars. Yes, a % of stuff is made in Germany, and other parts of the EU for tax reasons

Sweden is Hydro, Nuclear and sustainable, such as wind. Again, I’m not sure how much stuff is actually made in Sweden.

In terms on the interior, most if not all will be made by other companies and supplied to BMW for assembly.

[BigRam7151]

Driving both the gv70, glc and the new x3 yesterday I would still say the experience is better on the x3. Genesis puts up a competitive car which some people may prefer due to its competitive pricing. The 3.5t can be had at a deal if you know how to negotiate. The glc is just trash… as an overall car I don’t know why anyone buys that thing. The driving experience and the materials just in daily use feels substantially worse. That goes from up market to down it’s just trash all the way through. On initial inspection looks good then downhill from there. Not to mention numerous problems on multiple Mercedes cars I’ve had over the past decade through family and myself.

BMW is still at the front of the pack at this time in overall car quality. Again the metal trim is an extremely small part of the cost. As is the rear led ambient lighting . I wouldn’t be surprised if it was brought back within a year or two. The savings are relatively small.

[avi66]

The new Audi SQ5 will be out here in the near future.

The interior looks significantly more premium than the low rent G45. That said the Renault I was in yesterday looked and felt more premium than the G45 lol.��

It’s not just about metal trim, it’s about the premium look and feel of the entire cabin, acres of cheap plastic. The central air vent area and its control are just nasty in the G45, as is the gimmicky side air vent controls. Seriously, it’s like something out of the 70’s., what was BMW thinking.��

Anyone considering a G45 should definitely see it in the flesh before committing. Could save you having to defend it and making excuses later.

[Mavus]

the only thing acceptable in that interior design is steering wheel.

the layout is like a kid car or fancy golf cart. the air vents, dash design, door cards are all trash but that is only my opinion based on previous bmw cabins. No way this is $70k car and my prediction the sales will confirm it.

[myg45]

Originally Posted by Mavus

the only thing acceptable in that interior design is steering wheel.

the layout is like a kid car or fancy golf cart. the air vents, dash design, door cards are all trash but that is only my opinion based on previous bmw cabins. No way this is $70k car and my prediction the sales will confirm it.

I'm curious how much would you pay for the base model, based on your thoughts?

[BigRam7151]

Originally Posted by avi66

The new Audi SQ5 will be out here in the near future.

The interior looks significantly more premium than the low rent G45. That said the Renault I was in yesterday looked and felt more premium than the G45 lol.��

It’s not just about metal trim, it’s about the premium look and feel of the entire cabin, acres of cheap plastic. The central air vent area and its control are just nasty in the G45, as is the gimmicky side air vent controls. Seriously, it’s like something out of the 70’s., what was BMW thinking.��

Anyone considering a G45 should definitely see it in the flesh before committing. Could save you having to defend it and making excuses later.

I have seen it and driven it. Generally I disagree with you. I’ve grown up with bmw over decades. I remember the interior back in the 90s. This is not some dramatic shift. It looks functional. I personally would never buy an Audi. They are literally at the bottom. Talk to any mechanic. If we’re going to talk cost cutting Audi is at the top.I am personally not a fan of the way they look. I don’t think adding more screens is an upgraded interior. Audi always looks great in photos then when you sit in it it’s much worse. BMW is usually the opposite. They are just very functional. Bmws have never been a luxury car in my mind. Just functional and nice to use on a daily basis.

I’m not heavily defending the new x3. But I do think these reactions are significantly overblown. They will make good cars to
Many over the next 6 to 7 years. Vast majority will be happy with them. They are competitive in the current market place. To even mention Renault is crazy. That is true garbage. Go buy a Renault and try to live with that car. Might as well get a geo metro while your at it.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by myg45

I'm curious how much would you pay for the base model, based on your thoughts?

I mean I wouldn’t with that layout but gl selling it at this price point.

Mazda cx-5 interior

[avi66]

Originally Posted by BigRam7151

I have seen it and driven it. Generally I disagree with you. I’ve grown up with bmw over decades. I remember the interior back in the 90s. This is not some dramatic shift. It looks functional. I personally would never buy an Audi. They are literally at the bottom. Talk to any mechanic. If we’re going to talk cost cutting Audi is at the top.I am personally not a fan of the way they look. I don’t think adding more screens is an upgraded interior. Audi always looks great in photos then when you sit in it it’s much worse. BMW is usually the opposite. They are just very functional. Bmws have never been a luxury car in my mind. Just functional and nice to use on a daily basis.

I’m not heavily defending the new x3. But I do think these reactions are significantly overblown. They will make good cars to
Many over the next 6 to 7 years. Vast majority will be happy with them.

Just curious when did you order the G45 ?

Sorry, it’s a crap effort by BMW, and it knows it, hence the heavy discount on offer in Europe 17% on a new model !

There are plenty of cars that are functional and nice to use on a daily basis. That’s a pretty low hurdle lol

I’ve owned plenty of German brand cars and don’t have any issues with any, providing it’s not a pig in lipstick release. There are plenty of BMW owners just as unhappy as Audi, MB, Porsche etc. owners.

If you’re happy with it, good for you, I wouldn’t be.

[BigRam7151]

I think it’s highly competitive within its segment of compact suvs. The issue is there isn’t a strong competitor towards that is pushing me away. I wish there was it generally only helps the consumer. I’m happy they cut costs in the spots they did because it’s not stuff that honestly matters to most people. If you like at any bmw customers priority list it’s not going to include plastic door handles etc etc. it’s just not. Most bmw owners lease so that is factored in as well. Be critical all you want but it just won’t affect sales. That degree of discount is not uncommon btw. Here in the states I’m able to get usually a ten percent discount or more on any particular model except the m cars(well I’m assuming xm is heavily discounted from what I’m hearing). If you’re adept at negotiating and have people you know generally that is the standard. This car is no different. The percent discount in the first weeks launch is not really indicative of demand yet. That will show up months from now.

I cannot speak for Europe or the UK.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by BigRam7151

I think it’s highly competitive within its segment of compact suvs. The issue is there isn’t a strong competitor towards that is pushing me away. I wish there was it generally only helps the consumer. I’m happy they cut costs in the spots they did because it’s not stuff that honestly matters to most people. If you like at any bmw customers priority list it’s not going to include plastic door handles etc etc. it’s just not. Most bmw owners lease so that is factored in as well. Be critical all you want but it just won’t affect sales. That degree of discount is not uncommon btw. Here in the states I’m able to get usually a ten percent discount or more on any particular model. If you’re adept at negotiating and have people you know generally that is the standard. This car is no different. The percent discount in the first weeks launch is not really indicative of demand yet. That will show up months from now.

I cannot speak for Europe.

I think you hit the nail of the head between European and US taste. Probably one of the reasons US centric designs have never been big sellers here.

[BigRam7151]

Maybe. I just want something that drives well with an easy to use os that works consistently without issues. Has the tech features you need. Which is not as easy as you state. I have tried Mercedes as has my wife and generally negative experiences all around. Porsche is great but missing a lot of the tech features etc down the line. It’s hard to find a good blend of

1. Drives well
2. Good tech that works well without issues

I wish there was more competitors. Genesis is getting close but need more development on the driving front but they are developing the luxury n division that they already have going on at Hyundai. Will be interesting to see what they do.

[JoeyO]

Cost cutting isn’t a new concept. It’s been around since the dawn of time. Auto manufacturing is a very competitive business. The difference of several hundred dollars or a thousand dollars could make or break a model’s success. However it was competitive even a hundred years ago. Henry Ford knew he couldn’t be all things to all people. He picked a particular point point and stuck with it. You could order his Model T in any color you want, just as long it was black. So the saying goes.

Having said that, I do feel the door pull-latch is really chintzy. It should be made of metal, not plastic. Preferably a polished metal casting. The plastic idea had to come from BMW’s finance guys. I am a product engineer. No self-respecting product engineer would design that part out of plastic and feel proud about it. Somebody clearly caved to the pressure of the finance guys.