[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Vroom stops buying/selling used cars.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vroom...211000678.html

I saw that… honestly in thought Carvana would go first. Just a matter of time.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I saw that… honestly in thought Carvana would go first. Just a matter of time.

Carvana stock is up 600% this year. I should have bought some for funsies when it was on sale at 98% off its high.

[murderspice]

I bought my m2 through vroom. Was actually a good experience once you get over the fear.

[AlpineE92IS]

Does anyone have access to Manheim and is willing to post recent prices for North East (PA) for 2021-2023 BMW M5 Competition. I am shopping and trying to understand where the market is settling and what year provides the best deal.

[Higgs Boson]

sure

[AlpineE92IS]

Thank you! I am assuming the bottom search is 2021?

[Higgs Boson]

yes, sorry, croppy pic

[chassis]

Local BMW, MB and Porsche dealers bursting with inventory. Porsche dealer in particular has some interesting preowned 991.2 and 992 units, amazingly unsold, including 2 GT cars, and 2 targas, a 4S and a GTS. 2 Cayenne TGTs unsold. Plus Macans and Boxsters/Caymans. Lots to choose from.

Heard from a source in the retail car biz that sales are slow.

Cox confirms preowned pricing is softening.

Better market than ever in the past four years to be a buyer.

“Special” car prices will always be high or at least more than what armchair quarterbacks think they should pay. It is what it is.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by chassis

Local BMW, MB and Porsche dealers bursting with inventory. Porsche dealer in particular has some interesting preowned 991.2 and 992 units, amazingly unsold, including 2 GT cars, and 2 targas, a 4S and a GTS. 2 Cayenne TGTs unsold. Plus Macans and Boxsters/Caymans. Lots to choose from.

Heard from a source in the retail car biz that sales are slow.

Cox confirms preowned pricing is softening.

Better market than ever in the past four years to be a buyer.

“Special” car prices will always be high or at least more than what armchair quarterbacks think they should pay. It is what it is.

I’ve been keeping an eye on 992 values and it’s still overpriced. One and two year old cars are still asking above MSRP. Of course it doesn’t help that Porsche raised MSRP dramatically year over year.

[Alfisti]

I was gonna say, how long can Porsche hold on? Inventory is piling up BUT they don't budge on price, take it or leave it pal.

[jesm]

The 992.2 facelift is not an appealing one...I think it will make the 992.1 prices continue to stay high. The new GTS front bumper looks terrible.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by jesm

The 992.2 facelift is not an appealing one...I think it will make the 992.1 prices continue to stay high. The new GTS front bumper looks terrible.

The base 992.2 looks better than GTS. I think people will prefer the non GTS bumper designs.

[chassis]

Used price index ticked up in August but more than 50 points lower from its peak.

Now is a better time than in the past ~3 years for used car buyers. "Special" and desirable models will always be in short supply and priced higher than what buyers think is reasonable.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-in...s-episode-2-4/

[NickyC]

It's still terrible, transitory my rear end. 818,000 new jobs the crooked BLS had to finally admit yesterday never existed. The lies never end, wish the high prices did. I have no appetite to purchase much of anything any longer, everything is grossly overpriced. Glad I like my CS and it has low miles/is in great shape.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I have no appetite to purchase much of anything any longer, everything is grossly overpriced. Glad I like my CS and it has low miles/is in great shape.

This. Plus it's like housing. Maybe I can buy a used car for cheaper now, but that also means my current cars are worth even less... so does it really matter? I use to change cars every 1-2 years. I'm going on year 3 with the Cayenne, 2 years with the Model 3, the truck 5 years, the miata is the newest only a bit over a year... but that one was an addition I didn't trade anything in for it.

[BlkGS]

I expect a bloodbath in the auto industry soon. Truck sales even seem to be down a lot. I live in an area with a lot of high end trucks. The new f150 appears to really only be selling STX trims (which is basically a sporty looking base model). When this gen came out people were getting loaded lariats, King ranches, raptors, etc in droves, even with constraints.

Dodge's new ram landed with a flop. Too much money for too little improvement (and a lot of caution on the Hurricane I6). GM appears to have given up in the truck market and is just gonna sell to diehards, their truck is easily the worst in class.

Then you've got all the EV transition stuff that seems to have failed. Ford has deeply discounted lightning and mach E and only sells them when they sell them for less than ICE equivalents. GM is getting some of its EV trucks on the lots already and they're not moving.

I think most reasonable people know the economy is trash, despite what the media pundits and lying administration officials say. There's a distinct chance it only gets worse from here too, so it's not at all unreasonable to think that car sales are going to slip further and further.

I suspect that at some point soon we are going to have a major stock market correction. The market is just too high and doesn't reflect reality of the economy for most people. Thats extra bad news because while people's 401ks are fat, they're more likely to buy a new car and whatever. If they see their 401k shrink by 30% over a few days/weeks, they're probably gonna have a very different attitude towards buying a new car.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I think most reasonable people know the economy is trash, despite what the media pundits and lying administration officials say. There's a distinct chance it only gets worse from here too, so it's not at all unreasonable to think that car sales are going to slip further and further.

I suspect that at some point soon we are going to have a major stock market correction. The market is just too high and doesn't reflect reality of the economy for most people. Thats extra bad news because while people's 401ks are fat, they're more likely to buy a new car and whatever. If they see their 401k shrink by 30% over a few days/weeks, they're probably gonna have a very different attitude towards buying a new car.

I don't think the economy is "trash" at all. Over-valued? Absolutely. Due for a big correction? Yep. What's happening now is that less savvy and wise people in the US spent their COVID money, over-leveraged themselves, got really used to a lifestyle that was not sustainable for their income level ("me-too" mentality), didn't take advantage of investing during one of the most lucrative 10 years in history, and now, finally, they're dialing back because they don't have the money and their debt has piled up. Corporations are just a guilty on many levels and points I won't go into. I honestly don't feel bad for consumers and corporations that are finally getting a reality check that they need to live more within their means. The sad part is the market will skyrocket for a bit once the Fed dials back rates. I think it's a huge mistake given what's happening now. As Luke Skywalker said, "This is not going to go the way you think!".

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I don't think the economy is "trash" at all. Over-valued? Absolutely. Due for a big correction? Yep. What's happening now is that less savvy and wise people in the US spent their COVID money, over-leveraged themselves, got really used to a lifestyle that was not sustainable for their income level ("me-too" mentality), didn't take advantage of investing during one of the most lucrative 10 years in history, and now, finally, they're dialing back because they don't have the money and their debt has piled up. Corporations are just a guilty on many levels and points I won't go into. I honestly don't feel bad for consumers and corporations that are finally getting a reality check that they need to live more within their means. The sad part is the market will skyrocket for a bit once the Fed dials back rates. I think it's a huge mistake given what's happening now. As Luke Skywalker said, "This is not going to go the way you think!".

Maybe at the upper income levels, but the vast majority of people are struggling. While some of us have been fortunate and got into houses at low prices with cheap money, and some of us were even fortunate enough to massively increase their income to combat inflation, the reality is most people haven't been so lucky.

If you're a young person just starting out, you're looking at effectively being locked out of owning a single family home. If you're someone that hasn't increased their salary by like 25% plus over the past few years, you're drowning under the increased cost of living. The labor market has cooled off a lot so it's not like you can just easily jump to a new job that's gonna pay you that much more. Factor in the crazy increases in prices for things like cars, regular folks are struggling.

It's easy to miss what's going on at street level when that's not your world. But the average person is struggling and that will eventually sicken up. Things are as bad as like, 09-10, but they're probably not much better than 12-14.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

This. Plus it's like housing. Maybe I can buy a used car for cheaper now, but that also means my current cars are worth even less... so does it really matter? I use to change cars every 1-2 years. I'm going on year 3 with the Cayenne, 2 years with the Model 3, the truck 5 years, the miata is the newest only a bit over a year... but that one was an addition I didn't trade anything in for it.

It's 2 fold for me. New cars are just getting less and less interesting for me, mostly due to their ethos but also long term ownership just doesn't look great due to how complicated they are getting. Not to mention they're just not as "fun" as they used to be.

Secondly, cars have gotten so expensive I just don't see the value in them anymore. G80 Xdrive are damn near $100k cars, but my M4 GTS costs around 35% less than that (I know that's kind of apples vs oranges). I also ask myself if a Porsche Spyder is really 8x more fun than my old Z4M Roadster.

Maybe it's just coming with age, but I'm slowly losing interest in cars (couldn't care less about reading articles about yet another $3 million hyper car) and I'm just much more content with what I have.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by W///

It's 2 fold for me. New cars are just getting less and less interesting for me, mostly due to their ethos but also long term ownership just doesn't look great due to how complicated they are getting. Not to mention they're just not as "fun" as they used to be.

Secondly, cars have gotten so expensive I just don't see the value in them anymore. G80 Xdrive are damn near $100k cars, but my M4 GTS costs around 35% less than that (I know that's kind of apples vs oranges). I also ask myself if a Porsche Spyder is really 8x more fun than my old Z4M Roadster.

Maybe it's just coming with age, but I'm slowly losing interest in cars (couldn't care less about reading articles about yet another $3 million hyper car) and I'm just much more content with what I have.

I feel the same way. Everything is too much money, too digital, and too similar. You used to be able to get different things, now everyone has 3L turbo 6s. Soon they'll all have 2L turbo 4s with hybrids or 3L turbo 6s with hybrids and they'll weigh a ton. Nothing really revs high anymore outside of exotics. Everything has a million drive modes

Enthusiast cars have been replaced by internet bragging cars. New cars are now measured by objective times only now. 0-60 on a prepped surface with launch control, mpg on the EPA cycle, 1/4 mile times when equipped with sticky tires you won't daily drove. It's all so stupid.

Back when cars were interesting, they had character. You could get a freaking V10 in a 5 series or S6. There was a truck that had a viper engine and a 6 speed manual. You could get a 8000rpm M3. Mercedes made a supercharged V8 that could push 600hp with light mods. All the automakers were making things that were different and special to try to woo buyers. Now they're like "buy this expensive car or we will stop making them and only sell boring EVs".

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by W///

It's 2 fold for me. New cars are just getting less and less interesting for me, mostly due to their ethos but also long term ownership just doesn't look great due to how complicated they are getting. Not to mention they're just not as "fun" as they used to be.

Secondly, cars have gotten so expensive I just don't see the value in them anymore. G80 Xdrive are damn near $100k cars, but my M4 GTS costs around 35% less than that (I know that's kind of apples vs oranges). I also ask myself if a Porsche Spyder is really 8x more fun than my old Z4M Roadster.

Maybe it's just coming with age, but I'm slowly losing interest in cars (couldn't care less about reading articles about yet another $3 million hyper car) and I'm just much more content with what I have.

That’s why I ended up with the Miata. I was looking at other stuff but everything was so ridiculously expensive. Like Porsche… honestly I never followed Porsche that much mainly because I hated their older interiors with a passion. For those who have followed them though… has a boxster always been $100k… and a 4 cylinder turbo to boot!

Ironically I make more money now than I ever did before but now there’s nothing I want/willing to pay the ridiculous prices for.

[Mavus]

+1

I am looking at models from the past and not much new interests me like another ipad on wheels and useless gadgets at insane prices.

I would rather spend funds on restomod with character than new ugly $100k m3 that’s now the size of m5.