[hotwasabipeas]

Originally Posted by BigRam7151

BMW is still at the front of the pack at this time in overall car quality.

I think Porsche might have a word or two to say about that

[BigRam7151]

Originally Posted by hotwasabipeas

I think Porsche might have a word or two to say about that

Yes Porsche is better in actual material and build quality. I meant overall when you combine with the tech. It’s also a class ahead in terms of pricing. Can’t compare them directly. If Macan gts was the same price people would definitely be buying that.

My wife has a macan and feels that this bmw is very ugly. For me the price difference isn’t worth it. I don’t see the value. Everyone has different things they place a priority on.

[BigRam7151]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Cost cutting isn’t a new concept. It’s been around since the dawn of time. Auto manufacturing is a very competitive business. The difference of several hundred dollars or a thousand dollars could make or break a model’s success. However it was competitive even a hundred years ago. Henry Ford knew he couldn’t be all things to all people. He picked a particular point point and stuck with it. You could order his Model T in any color you want, just as long it was black. So the saying goes.

Having said that, I do feel the door pull-latch is really chintzy. It should be made of metal, not plastic. Preferably a polished metal casting. The plastic idea had to come from BMW’s finance guys. I am a product engineer. No self-respecting product engineer would design that part out of plastic and feel proud about it. Somebody clearly caved to the pressure of the finance guys.

Yea I agree. At some point the decision will likely get reversed. I just don’t think it’s reason enough to not buy the car. It’s just one persons opinion. Also believe if bmw thought it would affect sales they wouldn’t have do It. I’m assuming these decisions aren’t made lightly.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by BigRam7151

Yea I agree. At some point the decision will likely get reversed. I just don’t think it’s reason enough to not buy the car. It’s just one persons opinion. Also believe if bmw thought it would affect sales they wouldn’t have do It. I’m assuming these decisions aren’t made lightly.

The easy answer is offer the customer a cost option on the interior finish. You can opt for the cheap pack as it is today, or option the premium interior pack as an option in some markets.

I don’t think BMW would offer this because the X3 isn’t high enough up the premium chain.

On previous gen products certain options were either a cost option or standard here, yet not even offered in the US.

My next Porsche would be my fifth, although this would be my first SUV rather than 911.

I guess time will tell on sales globally, but there certainly seems to be less traffic on this forum considering it’s a new product, now in the hands of owners……

[avi66]

The low-rent interior again, still didn’t compare it to a wheelie bin like some other reviewers, so I guess that’s a positive.

Top Gear M50 and 20 review -

“ WHAT IS IT LIKE ON THE INSIDE?

It hits the basics. It's roomy enough, and the driving position and controls are very good indeed.

The let-down is unexpected: it just doesn't feel expensive. There's a lot of hard scratchy plastics where your hand meets it: door pulls and handles, centre console storage bins. And the ambient light strips look good in photos but in real life resemble the glow sticks you wear round your neck on bonfire night.”


“ WHAT'S THE VERDICT?

For the past two generations the X3 has been capable and uncontroversial. You need to look carefully to find the smallest rough edges. This time round it's a little different. Despite the quick-responding screen systems, easily mastered menus and interesting use of cloth over the facia, much of the cabin plastic is a bit low-rent.”

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/bmw/x3

[avi66]

Originally Posted by BigRam7151

Yes Porsche is better in actual material and build quality. I meant overall when you combine with the tech. ItÂ’s also a class ahead in terms of pricing. CanÂ’t compare them directly. If Macan gts was the same price people would definitely be buying that.

An M50 here with options as close to my existing car as possible is around $106k(US) at the current MRSP/exchange rate. So not exactly bargain basement cheap, particualry given the low rent interior.

Servicing is also not included as standard here and adds a further $1600+ upfront with the BMW Service Inclusive option which covers a fixed period/mileage. The new car warranty is only also only 3 years.

It is possible to load a Macan GTS to make it more expensive, but sensible option choice and it gets closer to an M50 here.

[BigRam7151]

Originally Posted by avi66

An M50 here with options as close to my existing car as possible is around $106k(US) at the current MRSP/exchange rate. So not exactly bargain basement cheap, particualry given the low rent interior.

Servicing is also not included as standard here and adds a further $1600+ upfront with the BMW Service Inclusive option which covers a fixed period/mileage. The new car warranty is only also only 3 years.

It is possible to load a Macan GTS to make it more expensive, but sensible option choice and it gets closer to an M50 here.

Oh no… UK is very expensive. Here the m50 is 70k. Lease is about 1000 to 1100 with zero down. Macan gts you are looking at around 1600 a month for a gts with zero down. Msrp for a base Macan is around 80k with gts being around 100. Financing with Porsche is generally much worse then bmw.

Back in 2020 the lease for an x3m40 was around 800.

BMW service is free here. I’m assuming leasing is so outrageous there it doesn’t make sense.

At UK pricing I can understand the frustration with material quality. I would expect more.

If they asked me to pay a couple 100 dollars more for metal handles and buttons I would have happily paid. My only point was it’s not enough to deter me. But if this car was 100k I can find better options but I don’t know what uk prices are in general.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by BigRam7151

My only point was it’s not enough to deter me.

This is a guiding principle for some in the engineering community. I recall one of our most senior engineers asking out loud words to the effect, “What is the least we have to do to sell the cars?” Broke my heart.

[BigRam7151]

It’s usually competition that forces companies to improve further. Luckily this segment is extremely competitive. Things will shift back and forth between companies. This is the nature of any business the size of bmw. They test the market and see how much they sell. You continue to iterate from there.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Cost cutting isn’t a new concept. It’s been around since the dawn of time. Auto manufacturing is a very competitive business. The difference of several hundred dollars or a thousand dollars could make or break a model’s success. However it was competitive even a hundred years ago. Henry Ford knew he couldn’t be all things to all people. He picked a particular point point and stuck with it. You could order his Model T in any color you want, just as long it was black. So the saying goes.

Having said that, I do feel the door pull-latch is really chintzy. It should be made of metal, not plastic. Preferably a polished metal casting. The plastic idea had to come from BMW’s finance guys. I am a product engineer. No self-respecting product engineer would design that part out of plastic and feel proud about it. Somebody clearly caved to the pressure of the finance guys.

It was actually plastic on the 1st gen x3. And they got a ton of criticism for it. Those chinese metal door handles probably are their backup plan, but I get the feeling most people wont even care and itll still sell well

[avi66]

Modern, minimalist, eco/made made interior doesn’t need to look and feel cheap like the G45.

IIRC BMW has just hired a design guy from Polestar.

That audio seems pretty good 25 speakers lol

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by hotwasabipeas

I think Porsche might have a word or two to say about that

Not necessarily. I just came from a Porsche and believe the interior to be equal to if not better than my Macan.

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by Mavus

what’s the story with audio and speakers? cut that too??

Not to mention plastic tweeter grills on the “A pillar” posts in place of the former metal grills. Rear door speakers have plastic housings too.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Mavus

what’s the story with audio and speakers? cut that too??

Originally Posted by car_fan

Not to mention plastic tweeter grills on the “A pillar” posts in place of the former metal grills. Rear door speakers have plastic housings too.

My understanding is the standard HiFi audio has gone from 205W system to a 100W one. Also, the speaker count was reduced from 12 speakers to 6?!!!

I think my 90's boom box put out more power!

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by EWL5

My understanding is the standard HiFi audio has gone from 205W system to a 100W one. Also, the speaker count was reduced from 12 speakers to 6?!!!

I think my 90's boom box put out more power!

that’s the thing with this bean counting CEO and green Euro terrorists can’t trust him with these models and I’m sure there are gotchas hiding all over in addition to visible ones.

[BigRam7151]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

Not necessarily. I just came from a Porsche and believe the interior to be equal to if not better than my Macan.

Depends on what perspective you’re looking at it. The macan doors feel heavier, buttons feel better. Small things.

From a tech perspective it’s highly lacking. That rear camera is literal trash.

[Romax]

I read an interesting post on Reddit on a relevant topic:
The cost cutting on the new X3 is insane.
Looked at an old vs new design.

1 - Comfort access is gone on rear doors

2 - Tailpipes gone from 30 models - https://ibb.co/sJvTR0W

3 - Ambient lights gone from rear doors - https://ibb.co/RQLGPDD

4 - Ambient lights are gone from door pockets

5 - C pillar is plastic and used to be leatherette

6 - Door tops and dash plastic or fabric

7 - Door handles and buttons went from metal to plastic - https://ibb.co/rsqmZGs

8 - The door grabs plastic. The funny thing is that the front is gloss, and the back and rear are plastic. The actual window controls are plastic now https://ibb.co/RbJqprL

9 - MSport steering wheel airbag cover plastic - https://ibb.co/SyymSWv

10 - The lower dash used to be rubberized, material now plastic

11 - Footrest and trunk scuff plates went from metal to plastic - https://ibb.co/pQBVjpp

12 - The sunroof doesn’t open. it's now a panoramic roof - https://ibb.co/DzcxyrN

It's a Kia now smh.

3k increase in MSRP....

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Romax

I read an interesting post on Reddit on a relevant topic:
The cost cutting on the new X3 is insane.
Looked at an old vs new design.

1 - Comfort access is gone on rear doors

2 - Tailpipes gone from 30 models - https://ibb.co/sJvTR0W

3 - Ambient lights gone from rear doors - https://ibb.co/RQLGPDD

4 - Ambient lights are gone from door pockets

5 - C pillar is plastic and used to be leatherette

6 - Door tops and dash plastic or fabric

7 - Door handles and buttons went from metal to plastic - https://ibb.co/rsqmZGs

8 - The door grabs plastic. The funny thing is that the front is gloss, and the back and rear are plastic. The actual window controls are plastic now https://ibb.co/RbJqprL

9 - MSport steering wheel airbag cover plastic - https://ibb.co/SyymSWv

10 - The lower dash used to be rubberized, material now plastic

11 - Footrest and trunk scuff plates went from metal to plastic - https://ibb.co/pQBVjpp

12 - The sunroof doesn’t open. it's now a panoramic roof - https://ibb.co/DzcxyrN

It's a Kia now smh.

3k increase in MSRP....

13. There are no scuff protectors on the inner door sill even in the M50.
14. No puddle lights on each door.
15. No gesture control.
16. No cargo rails.
17. No lower dash storage draw drivers side.
18. Glovebox is half the size.
19. Single projector lens headlights.
20. No M Sport Seats option anymore.
21. Are there still lights in the exterior door handles ?
22. No physical drive mode change buttons, requires touch screen ?

[arunr55]

Originally Posted by Romax

I read an interesting post on Reddit on a relevant topic:
The cost cutting on the new X3 is insane.
Looked at an old vs new design.

1 - Comfort access is gone on rear doors

2 - Tailpipes gone from 30 models - https://ibb.co/sJvTR0W

3 - Ambient lights gone from rear doors - https://ibb.co/RQLGPDD

4 - Ambient lights are gone from door pockets

5 - C pillar is plastic and used to be leatherette

6 - Door tops and dash plastic or fabric

7 - Door handles and buttons went from metal to plastic - https://ibb.co/rsqmZGs

8 - The door grabs plastic. The funny thing is that the front is gloss, and the back and rear are plastic. The actual window controls are plastic now https://ibb.co/RbJqprL

9 - MSport steering wheel airbag cover plastic - https://ibb.co/SyymSWv

10 - The lower dash used to be rubberized, material now plastic

11 - Footrest and trunk scuff plates went from metal to plastic - https://ibb.co/pQBVjpp

12 - The sunroof doesn’t open. it's now a panoramic roof - https://ibb.co/DzcxyrN

It's a Kia now smh.

3k increase in MSRP....

No comfort access on the rear door. That’s really bad. Should have checked this before ordering the car😞. Really weird though, the configurator say just comfort access, there is no * or description that comfort access for front seat only. Someone should sue BMW for misleading.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by arunr55

No comfort access on the rear door. That’s really bad. Should have checked this before ordering the car��. Really weird though, the configurator say just comfort access, there is no * or description that comfort access for front seat only. Someone should sue BMW for misleading.

If you look closely on the web terms or other BMW spec docs there will be a statement from BMW along the lines of specification is subject to change, and errors and omissions accepted.

The BMW USA website has be claiming 600w for the G01 iDrive 7 HK audio system since forever, but it’s wrong, and BMW knows it’s wrong but chooses to mislead. ��

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by arunr55

No comfort access on the rear door. That’s really bad. Should have checked this before ordering the car😞. Really weird though, the configurator say just comfort access, there is no * or description that comfort access for front seat only. Someone should sue BMW for misleading.

Most of us are living vicariously off you guys! Hoping for some real owner feedback before the US publications give us their take!

[INLINE6JOC]

Originally Posted by blackpear

I’ve ordered a new X3 despite concerns about a drop in quality.

I like the way BMWs handle and drive, I like their engines and I like sitting in a premium cockpit knowing I can rely on German quality.

However Germany car manufacturer margins are under severe pressure due to a big increase in production costs. This is mainly caused by the loss of cheap Russian gas which the German economy relied on and by other knock on effects of the Ukraine invasion.

In addition, the car manufacturers in Europe have onerous Government legislation to meet net zero and EV targets putting further pressure on ICE production. China is producing millions of cheap cars.

To maintain margins and profit I suspect BMW have trimmed costs in every area possible and that includes vehicle design, build, materials and production.

There is no doubt that those decisions are visible when I look at my current X3 vs the 2025 model. Plastic mouldings with colourful lights cannot hide a noticeable decline everywhere else. Plastic seats instead of leather, plastic door handles, knitted polyester dashboard, discarding other premium details inside and out by calling it a cleaner design.

BMW are obviously hoping that these cuts are insufficient to deter buyers and loyal customers. They may be right. I’m staying - for now.

But it is also possible that customers won’t pay premium prices for a non premium car. Nowadays things can change very quickly and they may find out the hard way that losing customer loyalty and trust will hit their profits far harder than the money saved from a bit of ‘build quality’ cost cutting.

Compared to my M40i, the drive of the new M50 was wonderful--ride improved overall. The engine better than ever. Exterior styling is fine.
The bean counters did OK until they got to the doors. Let's be very honest here. Look at a new X1 and the current X5-materials and touch points are impressive. The new x3-where do I begin?
The center dash can be fixed for a few bucks- modify the silly hard plastic bits.
The doors are a complete and utter fail. Go look at a GV70.
Gloss black bits on the door where Magnolia Print would be so much better. Add a little stitching from say a Mazda CX-5. A COSCO door handle-CHEAP. Scratchy everything. Kia hides cost cutting better. For the KIA price point, this is perfect.
The gimmicky door lights and controls are SO-SO but executed to a price point that actually makes me frustrated at BMW.
Now, that all said. Once pricing settles down-the drive and engine win me over. Will I order one eventually? Is there a team working on emergency fixes in two years?