[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by ABR

Toyota seems just outpacing everybody in every segment.

What the f*ck are you smoking!?!?!?!?

[ward]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

What the f*ck are you smoking!?!?!?!?

Wow Mrskimask, coming into the forum at full speed with both barrell blazing

welcome!

[MisterSkiMask]

Its not that I chose to fire, but when faced with such blinding stupidity I was left with no choice.

[spitfire6000]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

Here is Jeremy Clarkson's opinion on Merc CLS AMG

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=top+gear+cls

havent seen this episode review yet...but its very interesting how he admits that its the first mb hes driven that shows those handling characteristics for its size.

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by Garrett

The CLS55 AMG cost $87,000, the BMW 650i cost $71,000. Thats a $16,000 difference. The //M6 will be about $85,000 and 500+ HP. Can't imagine how some people reason or compair.


-Garrett

Garrett, thanks for the US prices. You are correct. The money is a big deal to us looking at E90 class price range.
Our car tax is ~90%-110% , thus the base price differences, to us here is somewhat less 'significant' for those small number of individuals who are able to afford either one. And, the dealer markup for these top models are always huge rip-offs. My apologisies for the confusion. Our local prices:
CLS55 = 1.65m (fairly loaded but not fully)
M5 = 1.48m ( (M6 $ is more)
645 = 1.3m
330i = 0.5m

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

What the f*ck are you smoking!?!?!?!?

It's a fact.....accept it!

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by Garrett

MB's are paper tigers ...!!

Your looking soley at stats and specs and not how they all work together. Your assuming because on paper they have performance that once your behind the wheel they achieve it. MB's are well build LUXURY cars. BMW's are machines.

You tout the performance and HP/TQ figures from the CL55 AMG ($121,000) and the CL65 AMG($180,000) cars then ask a mudane question of why...?

BMW knows how to put their HP to the ground and the result is a silky smooth effortless Bimmer !! The ///M5 will easily out handle and perform the CL55 AMG. And you can't dismiss the $40,000 difference in price. Plus, the M5 has more horsepower !!!

I fail to see your point...!

Secondly, if you look at MB's sedans compaired to BMW's at the same price range, BMW gives your a driving enthusiast experience... not a cushy quite executive feel. Your comparisons are severly skewed because you don't compair cars based on Class/Price.

Mercedes has nothing over BMW, their a different market and a different crowd.


-Garrett


(PS: Explain to me again why Mercedes weigh so much...?)

Garret

I hate to be the one promoting how great Mb is in a bimmer forum. And besides, I am a Bi.

You sounded so firm and that leads me to believe you even know MB cars more than you know BMW cars. You must have test driven a hell of lot MBs to come to that conclusion.

Put the performance and reliability issues aside, people these days are really buying a car and not buying an engine. MB is indeed pretty speed to market. AMG models these days can be available concurrent with the regular ones. And, the wait time for a E9x M3/4 is far too long. While BMW was about thinking a Z4 coupe, MB's electrical top SLK second generation has flooded the streets already.

We love BMWs, but it is fair that we as consumer to see BMW really makes more variety of great sports cars in a timely manner and intead, we are here waiting?

[ward]

yeah but the CLS rear end looks like a pinched off turd


(my opinion, not fact)

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by ward

yeah but the CLS rear end looks like a pinched off turd


(my opinion, not fact)

LOL - Ward you certainly have a way with words!

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by cntlaw

Garret

I hate to be the one promoting how great Mb is in a bimmer forum. And besides, I am a Bi.

You sounded so firm and that leads me to believe you even know MB cars more than you know BMW cars. You must have test driven a hell of lot MBs to come to that conclusion.

Put the performance and reliability issues aside, people these days are really buying a car and not buying an engine. MB is indeed pretty speed to market. AMG models these days can be available concurrent with the regular ones. And, the wait time for a E9x M3/4 is far too long. While BMW was about thinking a Z4 coupe, MB's electrical top SLK second generation has flooded the streets already.

We love BMWs, but it is fair that we as consumer to see BMW really makes more variety of great sports cars in a timely manner and intead, we are here waiting?

cntlaw, I don't understand your point, whether your sarcasm didn't hit me or your confused about a point I made. Your quote above makes no sense to me or how it ties into my previous post.

I'm talking car to car.


-Garrett

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by cntlaw

Garrett, thanks for the US prices. You are correct. The money is a big deal to us looking at E90 class price range.
Our car tax is ~90%-110% , thus the base price differences, to us here is somewhat less 'significant' for those small number of individuals who are able to afford either one. And, the dealer markup for these top models are always huge rip-offs. My apologisies for the confusion. Our local prices:
CLS55 = 1.65m (fairly loaded but not fully)
M5 = 1.48m ( (M6 $ is more)
645 = 1.3m
330i = 0.5m

Your confused. I never mentioned affordability, I was simply trying to show/illustrate to you that your WRONG without actually saying it. Oh well.

Originally Posted by cntlaw

"....the CLS and a hell lot more luxury and cheaper than the 645i."

Thats FALSE. The CLS costs more than a 645i, hell it cost more than a 650i, it even cost more than a //M6 ..!

Price wasn't the over all issue of why I quoted you in the first place. you were nocking the 6-series while touting the CLS55 AMG (476hp). I simply came back and said why spend THAT much more for the AMG when you can spend LESS and get an M6(507hp) with MORE horsepower ...! Since you seemed to be all focused on horsepower.

I guess you just didn't understand the logic of me posting the cost of each vehichle. Because you weren't compairing the AMG to the ///M you were compairing it to the 645/650i.

Thats a NO NO !!



-Garrett

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by Garrett

cntlaw, I don't understand your point, whether your sarcasm didn't hit me or your confused about a point I made. Your quote above makes no sense to me or how it ties into my previous post.

I'm talking car to car.


-Garrett

Garrett

Thanks for reply.
No. We did not understand each other.
Have a nice day.
Best Regards
cnt

[Ireland]

mercedes need to use far larger engines to get the same performance figures ans bmw and are usually supercharged they cant get it out of a N.A. engine and dont handle nearly as well

[Aija]

Originally Posted by Ireland

mercedes need to use far larger engines to get the same performance figures ans bmw and are usually supercharged they cant get it out of a N.A. engine and dont handle nearly as well

IRELAND WHY YOU BRINGING OLD THREADS BACK..THIS IS THE SECOND ONE I COUNTED.

[nmulax]

Originally Posted by Aija

IRELAND WHY YOU BRINGING OLD THREADS BACK..THIS IS THE SECOND ONE I COUNTED.

+1 let the thread die

[AndrewAZ]

I have seen some posts about motors BMW vs MB lets do a quick compare..

BMW
3 series
328i> C300
328i<C350 (very close race)
335i>C350
New M3 < C63


5 series

528i < E350
535i> E350
535i<E550
550i=E550
M5 = E63 (drivers race)

6 Series vs CL
All CL models out power the 6.

7 seires vs S
All S out power the 7

When it comes down to AMG vs M as I have always said is personal preference, both are fast and an AMG will win street light to street light, the AMG will also offer comfort and a better ride. Personally I would rather drive an AMG on the street but when it comes to the track its all about the M driving experience.

[astra]

Wow, weird thread... OP, If you think MB are a better car then the BMW's, then why did you are you here?

I understand that in North America, that the BMW's are far cheaper then the MB, so you probably aren't gonna get the engine that an MB has, but the power isn't everything... Handling makes up a HUGE part of the driving experiance. I have driven a few Mercs, and they just don't compare in the driving experiance to the Bimmers i have driven

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

I have seen some posts about motors BMW vs MB lets do a quick compare..

Interesting you should post all this, I think we have different models of BMW's all over the world, so possibly not as relevant outside of the USA

[alexckma]

what are you guys arguing about?

MB and BMW are great in their own respect.

Recently top gear released the M5 versus the E AMG, and the results? well, E was better in a straightline, and M5 had better braking and going around corners.

As for BMW fans saying that MB doesn't know how to make performance cars, well that's bullshit, what the hell do you think the SLR is? Luxury? maybe.. the price is definitely in that range, but it runs and corners, and is a very very decent car.

MB isn't all about luxury, and BMW isn't all about performance. there is a compromise. Stop arguing about nonsense and enjoy your cars.

I personally love SOME BMWs, and hate some others. I hate the 6 and 7 series, and love the 3, 5, Z4, series (including M editions), but that doesn't mean I do not respect other brands.

I love bmws, and I respect Mercedes. I give them a round of applause for the latest C class, and CLS. I like these cars, in fact I just got a C 350 2008. It's a nice car, what else can I say?

People who are blind by the brands should just not involve themselves in the debates. Speed/performance isn't everything.

Choose what you like, buy it, and have fun with it. Keep your personal choices, and let other people think what they want to.

[RBP]

Mercedes-Benz had issues regarding quality until recent years. I think you will find that 2007-2010 models have unparalleled quality.

If you were on a track and had a choice only between Mercedes-Benz and BMW which would you get (CLK63 Black or SLR McLaren or BMW M3) ? Now if you were taking a super-model out for dinner...which would you rather have (S600 or 750iL)? Now if you were going up to the ski-chalet which would you rather have (ML63 or X5) ? Driving down the PCH...would you want an SL65 or an M6?

Is everyone still a BMW fan?

[Jaimito]

"the benzes drive like lexuses on strait roads,"

maybe you are smoking dope, or just don't know much about cars and spelling challenged. I think latter is true.

Lexus is MB wannabe, and has been copying MB ever since LS400 came out.

MB are fine cars, and if I am in the market for a 4 door luxury car, it would be among the top of my list. But for sporty 2 doors, I'll take a M car before any AMG.

[rpa]

Originally Posted by RBP

Mercedes-Benz had issues regarding quality until recent years. I think you will find that 2007-2010 models have unparalleled quality.

If you were on a track and had a choice only between Mercedes-Benz and BMW which would you get (CLK63 Black or SLR McLaren or BMW M3) ? Now if you were taking a super-model out for dinner...which would you rather have (S600 or 750iL)? Now if you were going up to the ski-chalet which would you rather have (ML63 or X5) ? Driving down the PCH...would you want an SL65 or an M6?

Is everyone still a BMW fan?

Exactly what is the point of comparing cars that have price differences that are measured in the 100s of percent? The SLR is what? Roughly $500k? The M3 will likely clock in at $60k. Who in their right mind wouldn't drive an exotic around the track vs. a high production car like the M3? Same goes for the Black Series--if I'm not mistaken those will be going for well into the $100k range.

The same somewhat goes for the S600 vs. a 750. You're conveniently comparing an $80k car to a $160k car. And, as well, the same definitely goes for an M6 vs. the SL65. Those 2 cars have a whopping $90k difference in MSRP


Point is, your post comes across as fairly ignorant for comparing cars that don't even sniff each other's price class and using that to conclude that 1 brand is better than another. It's the equivalent of saying "The Ford GT is better than any car BMW makes therefore Ford must be a better brand than BMW and all Fords must be better". Luxury wise MB currently makes better cars than BMW. However, when it comes to all around performance (not just straight line) BMW beats the snot out of MB when it comes to cars in COMPARABLE classes.

Further, given BMW's history I can safely say if they ever built a car that cost $500k it would blow the doors off the SLR. Hell, I personally believe BMW could make a car like that for 1/2 to 1/3 of the pricing point of the SLR because all around performance is in their DNA.

[BMWE90]

MB are usually the ones that have the most advanced features on their cars first.