[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by fravel

Honestly, if you have to ask yourself these questions I would advise against it.

A firearm is an inanimate object. It has no ability to think, make decisions or take actions. It can't influence you. If those topics are issues for you they probably already exist without adding a firearm to the mix.

Right. But I wouldn't say these are pre-existing issues. I'm not really a fighter; I prefer to avoid conflict. You can kill yourself and others using cars, knives, and other things, doesn't have to be a gun. I personally think I am responsible and mature enough to own a handgun. Completely different subject, but I made it out just fine with an M3 purchased at 16 y/o. And I don't do stupid shit/speed on public roads anymore because I weighed the risks and rewards and decided that stuff isn't worth it. Maybe that conveys my maturity level to you? Idk

Anyways, reading a lot online about the issues I listed, I think those questions should be asked. People and their heads change, in good and bad ways. I think I can decide when it's time to walk away from something if I think there's too much risk involved. I did that when I was looking to buy a motorcycle; I decided the risk was too high and bought another car instead. Giving up tracking is always on the table if I ever feel that it's starting to become unsafe. I can get rid of my handgun if something doesn't feel right.

For now, I'll probably take the weapons safety and CHL course and go from there. May or may not buy one, but I'll at least have the license and some training if I choose to purchase.

[Nate4641]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

For now, I'll probably take the weapons safety and CHL course and go from there. May or may not buy one, but I'll at least have the license and some training if I choose to purchase.

Definitely take the class and make sure to find a good one. Don't go for the cheapest class out there because unfortunately not all instructors are great. There are a lot of opinions in the firearm community and sometimes people with bad opinions become instructors and spread their bad opinions and information. Find a quality instructor with a good reputation, usually NRA certified is a good bet.

Also do research on CCW uses. Active Self Protection on facebook, youtube, and their own website has a ton of good information and lessons learned from real world situations. There is a lot of stuff they talk about that not all CCW permit holders understand like not chasing after a criminal and when it isn't okay to draw a firearm. They also advocate getting unarmed training like martial arts for times when you need to defend yourself, but legally cannot use a firearm.

There is definitely a proper mindset involved with CCW. You don't have to think of yourself as a super hero in disguise waiting for criminals to pop out from any corner so you can save the day, but a good knowledge of when you can and definitely cannot pull a firearm is critical. Concealed carry firearms are also often uncomfortable, sometime not everyone understands.

It can sometimes require you to change your wardrobe to remain concealed. I'm a shorts and t-shirt guy, but I started wearing a loose short sleeve button down to hide my gun from printing. People who know what to look for will definitely look at me and go.."yeah that dude is carrying", but most people wouldn't think twice about it. I however am always conscious of how my shirt is laying so that I don't expose anything.

I also am always scanning the given area where I am looking for potential threats. Not to say I'm always at code orange, adrenaline pumping and on my toes ready to pounce, I just try to be observant so I'm not taken by total surprise. Kind of like reading the cars on the road ahead and behind you so that douche in the mercedes doesn't end up in your trunk when you go to pass the prius going 10 under the speed limit.

If you don't have a ton of experience with handguns I would start out with a bigger sized gun first. Something full size like a Glock 17 (19 if your hands are a little smaller and the 19 is more comfortable) Beretta 92FS, Springfield XD, S&W M&P9, Walther PPQ, HK VP9, etc. Stick to 9mm, you don't need more power and it is friendlier to start and learn on. Once you're comfortable with your marksmanship look into a concealed carry gun. Something a lot of new handgun buyers don't always understand is different guns are like different tools. A sledge hammer and a ball peen hammer both accomplish a similar task, but you're not going to use a sledge hammer to build a bird house and you're not going to use a ball peen hammer to break up rocks.

Full size handguns are better to learn on because they are easier to shoot due to the size and weight absorbing more recoil and they are better for home defense because you have a larger ammunition capacity and they are easier to shoot. Concealed carry requires a few sacrifices in order to keep the firearm concealed. You give up ammo capacity, grip size (you can shoot perfectly fine without your pinky on the gun it's just not as comfortable) sight radius (distance between front and rear sights) and weight (heavier guns recoil less due to...physics). Now thats not to say you can't carry a full size gun, it's just harder to do depending on body type, where you put your holster (appendix, 3 o'clock, small of back, etc), what kind of clothing you're wearing and season.

Hope that novel of a reply helps. There is a lot that goes into it, but mostly it is education. I absolutely HATED selling guns to people who had no experience or education on firearms. In VA it wasn't required to have either so people legally could buy before ever shooting, but I always urged people to take a class first, then rent to find the gun thats right for you. Holding it in the store is not always going to be a good representation to how it feels when you shoot it.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Nate4641

Definitely take the class and make sure to find a good one. Don't go for the cheapest class out there because unfortunately not all instructors are great. There are a lot of opinions in the firearm community and sometimes people with bad opinions become instructors and spread their bad opinions and information. Find a quality instructor with a good reputation, usually NRA certified is a good bet.

Also do research on CCW uses. Active Self Protection on facebook, youtube, and their own website has a ton of good information and lessons learned from real world situations. There is a lot of stuff they talk about that not all CCW permit holders understand like not chasing after a criminal and when it isn't okay to draw a firearm. They also advocate getting unarmed training like martial arts for times when you need to defend yourself, but legally cannot use a firearm.

There is definitely a proper mindset involved with CCW. You don't have to think of yourself as a super hero in disguise waiting for criminals to pop out from any corner so you can save the day, but a good knowledge of when you can and definitely cannot pull a firearm is critical. Concealed carry firearms are also often uncomfortable, sometime not everyone understands.

It can sometimes require you to change your wardrobe to remain concealed. I'm a shorts and t-shirt guy, but I started wearing a loose short sleeve button down to hide my gun from printing. People who know what to look for will definitely look at me and go.."yeah that dude is carrying", but most people wouldn't think twice about it. I however am always conscious of how my shirt is laying so that I don't expose anything.

I also am always scanning the given area where I am looking for potential threats. Not to say I'm always at code orange, adrenaline pumping and on my toes ready to pounce, I just try to be observant so I'm not taken by total surprise. Kind of like reading the cars on the road ahead and behind you so that douche in the mercedes doesn't end up in your trunk when you go to pass the prius going 10 under the speed limit.

If you don't have a ton of experience with handguns I would start out with a bigger sized gun first. Something full size like a Glock 17 (19 if your hands are a little smaller and the 19 is more comfortable) Beretta 92FS, Springfield XD, S&W M&P9, Walther PPQ, HK VP9, etc. Stick to 9mm, you don't need more power and it is friendlier to start and learn on. Once you're comfortable with your marksmanship look into a concealed carry gun. Something a lot of new handgun buyers don't always understand is different guns are like different tools. A sledge hammer and a ball peen hammer both accomplish a similar task, but you're not going to use a sledge hammer to build a bird house and you're not going to use a ball peen hammer to break up rocks.

Full size handguns are better to learn on because they are easier to shoot due to the size and weight absorbing more recoil and they are better for home defense because you have a larger ammunition capacity and they are easier to shoot. Concealed carry requires a few sacrifices in order to keep the firearm concealed. You give up ammo capacity, grip size (you can shoot perfectly fine without your pinky on the gun it's just not as comfortable) sight radius (distance between front and rear sights) and weight (heavier guns recoil less due to...physics). Now thats not to say you can't carry a full size gun, it's just harder to do depending on body type, where you put your holster (appendix, 3 o'clock, small of back, etc), what kind of clothing you're wearing and season.

Hope that novel of a reply helps. There is a lot that goes into it, but mostly it is education. I absolutely HATED selling guns to people who had no experience or education on firearms. In VA it wasn't required to have either so people legally could buy before ever shooting, but I always urged people to take a class first, then rent to find the gun thats right for you. Holding it in the store is not always going to be a good representation to how it feels when you shoot it.

What a lot of advise lacks, because most of us who are serious about conceal carry view it as fundamental, is reading all the laws surrounding the right to conceal carry and defend yourself.

Edit: (this isn't a response to you Nate, just quoted yours for some reason)

Most of what everyone has given for advise is spot on and VERY useful. I personally think everyone should have to (by their own desire) complete a minimum of 8 hours of a defense hand gun class before considering conceal carry. And that would be after a year or more of owning a gun and shooting it often at the range to get comfortable with the mechanics of shooting.

Using a firearm effectively as a defensive tool is not something that comes natural to any one. In a situation where you're amped up, your HR is through the roof and you're getting tunnel vision, it's difficult for almost everyone to maintain focus and discipline while shooting. That's what the repetition of practicing does. Builds muscle memory and an instinct to fall back on when you don't have time to process information at a normal rate.

Everyone use their off hand to brush your teeth tonight. Just the act of holding your tooth brush with your off hand can baffle some people, let alone actually brushing with effectiveness using that hand. Same thing goes for a firearm. If you don't use it regularly, it'll feel like your holding it for the first time when your brain can't slowly process the information of how to use it properly. Stance, grip, sight picture, situational awareness, defensive tactics, etc...

I would say you should have a minimum of about 2.5x the cost of the gun in ammo run through that gun to become reasonably familiar with it. And i mean purposeful shooting, not just plinking at paper. This includes dry fire exercises, simulated malfunction clearing, mag changes, drawing from concealment, etc... when not in a range environment.

There is an acton shooting class i frequent and even though the shooters in the class have years of experience. EVERYONE starts off with about 5 straight minutes of: Aim, dry fire, reset trigger by clearing an imaginary malfunction, aim, dry fire, reset trigger...... rinse and repeat for 5 min before a round is popped off. Everyone's most accurate shots of the evening come from the first magazine and it's due to this dry fire exercise.

[Fundguy1]

I recommend two pistols to start. One full size, one mini, both same caliber if feasible. One will be your home defence. One your daily carry. Very small are nuch easier to carry so you are likely to take it instead of leave it. But they are no fun to shoot. Use both at the range so you are familiar with both. Having the big one thats fun to shoot will keep you going to the range. Good compliments to each other.

[vividracing]

Wanted to get some opinions on a couple different handguns from you guys before i made the decision. Im looking at the Sig (huge Sig fan) SP2022 and the CZ (never even fired one) P07. I have shot the SP2022 and i love it, but recently i have heard some really good things about the P07, so i figured i would get as many opinions as i can before making the decision. I need to make it to a range and rent the CZ, but i until then... What are your thoughts?

[EJT86]

Originally Posted by vividracing

Wanted to get some opinions on a couple different handguns from you guys before i made the decision. Im looking at the Sig (huge Sig fan) SP2022 and the CZ (never even fired one) P07. I have shot the SP2022 and i love it, but recently i have heard some really good things about the P07, so i figured i would get as many opinions as i can before making the decision. I need to make it to a range and rent the CZ, but i until then... What are your thoughts?

Opinions huh? Well that depends on what kind of awesome deals you might be inclined to give us...ahem ahem

Haven't shot the SP2022 but my first was the P226 and still have it and it's great. The 10rd mags are a bitch tho that 10th round is tough without a mag loader

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by EJT86

Opinions huh? Well that depends on what kind of awesome deals you might be inclined to give us...ahem ahem

Haven't shot the SP2022 but my first was the P226 and still have it and it's great. The 10rd mags are a bitch tho that 10th round is tough without a mag loader

I live in Arizona... What's a 10 round mag?


Deals are always ready to be dealt out at ANY moment

[EJT86]

Originally Posted by vividracing

I live in Arizona... What's a 10 round mag?


Deals are always ready to be dealt out at ANY moment

Well maybe if a few items "fell off the truck" since I'm cash poor lol
I'm stuck with 10 rounders but I wasn't sure if they came with 10 rounders or not but anyway the 226 is great. That probably doesn't help much lol

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by EJT86

Well maybe if a few items "fell off the truck" since I'm cash poor lol
I'm stuck with 10 rounders but I wasn't sure if they came with 10 rounders or not but anyway the 226 is great. That probably doesn't help much lol

You can buy them in 10+1, 15+1, and the P07 has a 17+1 in their tactical version as well. And i would agree.. The 226 IS a great gun. I just need some input on the P07 lol.

[PINeely]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

What a lot of advise lacks, because most of us who are serious about conceal carry view it as fundamental, is reading all the laws surrounding the right to conceal carry and defend yourself.

Edit: (this isn't a response to you Nate, just quoted yours for some reason)

Most of what everyone has given for advise is spot on and VERY useful. I personally think everyone should have to (by their own desire) complete a minimum of 8 hours of a defense hand gun class before considering conceal carry. And that would be after a year or more of owning a gun and shooting it often at the range to get comfortable with the mechanics of shooting.

Using a firearm effectively as a defensive tool is not something that comes natural to any one. In a situation where you're amped up, your HR is through the roof and you're getting tunnel vision, it's difficult for almost everyone to maintain focus and discipline while shooting. That's what the repetition of practicing does. Builds muscle memory and an instinct to fall back on when you don't have time to process information at a normal rate.

Everyone use their off hand to brush your teeth tonight. Just the act of holding your tooth brush with your off hand can baffle some people, let alone actually brushing with effectiveness using that hand. Same thing goes for a firearm. If you don't use it regularly, it'll feel like your holding it for the first time when your brain can't slowly process the information of how to use it properly. Stance, grip, sight picture, situational awareness, defensive tactics, etc...

I would say you should have a minimum of about 2.5x the cost of the gun in ammo run through that gun to become reasonably familiar with it. And i mean purposeful shooting, not just plinking at paper. This includes dry fire exercises, simulated malfunction clearing, mag changes, drawing from concealment, etc... when not in a range environment.

There is an acton shooting class i frequent and even though the shooters in the class have years of experience. EVERYONE starts off with about 5 straight minutes of: Aim, dry fire, reset trigger by clearing an imaginary malfunction, aim, dry fire, reset trigger...... rinse and repeat for 5 min before a round is popped off. Everyone's most accurate shots of the evening come from the first magazine and it's due to this dry fire exercise.

I've taken three concealed classes. Two basic, (one for me, one for my girlfriend) and one enhanced. My two were done by professionals at Magnolia Pistol and Rifle. We didn't even touch a gun until we had gone over hours of instruction about Mississippi self defense law.

Cut to my GF's class, done by some guys down at the local range. FAR cheaper, but night and day difference. The class started with them talking about how carrying this gun or that one will get you killed and the only acceptable carry option is a Glock 19. I heard SO MUCH bad advice that day, like run outside and shoot the guy breaking into your car because castle doctrine will protect you (it won't). I basically retaught the class to her and will be taking her back to magnolia for her enhanced.

If you've made it this far, all this to say that Mr. Tonka hit it in there when he said that there is a lot of bad info out there and we all need more knowledge of the law. Don't cheap on something that will save your life, or may end it if you end up going to jail because you shot some crackhead who was trying to steal your phone charger off the front seat.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by vividracing

Wanted to get some opinions on a couple different handguns from you guys before i made the decision. Im looking at the Sig (huge Sig fan) SP2022 and the CZ (never even fired one) P07. I have shot the SP2022 and i love it, but recently i have heard some really good things about the P07, so i figured i would get as many opinions as i can before making the decision. I need to make it to a range and rent the CZ, but i until then... What are your thoughts?

No personal experience with the P07, but i love me some czs, i have 4 now, i like them so much more then sigs (i have a 226 Navy, and a 232).

[Dang3r]

CZ is building nice guns, knowing the 07 and in direct comparison to my Sig 229 I would prefer my Sig. This is on one hand caused by the habit of known reaction at shooting and on the other hand by the feeling that the 07 is coiling unpredicatable at quick firing sequences.

[j_marinelli]

I have a 2022 and love it. Actually its my first Sig. Great gun that doesnt break the bank and is still good.

[Nate4641]

See if you can find a range that rents handguns and ask if they have both models. Try them out for yourself keeping in mind that rental guns get treated worse than rental cars so malfunctions may not be a true representation of how the gun will function with proper care and maintenance. You want to pay attention more to how the recoil impulse feels, do the sights work well for you, does it point naturally at where you want to shoot, and is it comfortable while shooting.

[capo180]

My glock has failed to discharge twice now.. wtf. It's went through Winchester target loads okay but both were with federal target loads. Only have something like 300-350 rounds through it.

[1MOREMOD]

Not normal at all

[1MOREMOD]

All parts except magpul prs have arrived for my next ar build. Should be cool when done.

[capo180]

Anything to look for when stripping it down?

[theriz]

^^ Just a question but, are you limp wristn' it?

Finished my AR15 build a while back..
-16 inch LWRC M6-SPR MOD 0
-IDP tactical lower receiver
-Surefire MB556k muzzle break
-Hiperfire, Hipertouch 24c trigger
-AXTS Raptor Agency Arms charging handle
-AXTS Ambi safety selector
-JP Silent capture spring
-Thordsen FRS-15 stock (california sucks)
-Lower parts kit was DSG

I should post some pics up.

[capo180]

Limp wristing? They both happened in my girlfriends hands so maybe that's the case. She wants to try to learn to shoot and I want to build some confidence with the weapon. Never thought about that, the physics make sense though.

[1MOREMOD]

Mines bcm 20 inch upper, precision arms keymod bipod mount, bipod, Psa premium bcg, bmc gunfighter ch, larue mount and grip, dpms parts kit, Anderson lower, magpul prs, a2 rifle tube, alg act trigger, larue monopod.

[theriz]

Originally Posted by capo180

Limp wristing? They both happened in my girlfriends hands so maybe that's the case. She wants to try to learn to shoot and I want to build some confidence with the weapon. Never thought about that, the physics make sense though.