[John_01]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Regarding the i8. Many of you do not see the i8 as a halo car but it is.
Its exciting , groundbreaking , innovative and a shot in the dark for the industry.

The i8 will probably be ground breaking for about 18 months following its release. After that I expect it will be outdated, and it will probably depreciate faster than a 7 series sedan. So much for BMW heritage that has been sold short in such a short space of time. In my opinion M models are now the only BMW model that is worth owning if you care about engineering.

[ddk632]

Originally Posted by John_01

The i8 will probably be ground breaking for about 18 months following its release. After that I expect it will be outdated, and it will probably depreciate faster than a 7 series sedan. So much for BMW heritage that has been sold short in such a short space of time. In my opinion M models are now the only BMW model that is worth owning if you care about engineering.

Seriously?

Look at used Z8 and 1M prices ... one thing I do not expect is for the i8 to depreciate "faster than a 7 series sedan". I think you're off base but only time will tell.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ddk632

Of course I am - but I was the same perfect BMW customer 10 years ago, too. It just happens that I still am even though there have been lots of changes since then.

I didn't say you said anything about high displacement; I merely made the statement that you don't have to have a high displacement engine for a real enthusiast's car. These days, correct me if I'm wrong, that is a common conception that I see over and over. Even with all of the various pleadings that the i8 should have had a TT V8 or other M engine, a sole reason why many people on this board have stated they don't like the i8 - lack of a monster engine.

In the final E46 days your M3 was blasphemy to some people because of the V8. Now the blasphemy is going to FI vs. NA. Either way different people become enthusiasts at different times (new generations, etc.) and whatever it is that drew them near, some or many of them don't like when it changes. I think that makes sense; what doesn't make sense is expecting things never to change.

My point was that BMW still makes emotionally appealing cars and despite the lack of feel in the F30 there are other cars that are fun to drive in the BMW way of old, maybe not exactly the same but the general traits are there. I'd love to drive the new M4 and see what it feels like. I don't think I'll be disappointed. With various technology to reduce turbo lag, newer FI engines are behaving more and more like conventional NA engines. Even the X6M has specially built exhaust manifolds that aids in this purpose.

My other point, which you did not address, is that the i8 being the halo car is not at all indicative that BMW "lost their true characteristics" as you stated.

I think it's a combination of adapting to new environments where MPG is important to many people, implementing new technologies, and still building cars that appeal to one's emotions.

When I attended an i8 event in Miami (in public) where many people had never seen it, and the BMW i Brand Manager gave a speech on it, people were impressed with the specs, but when he mentioned it gets 94 mpg, there was applause! These days lots of people do care about this.

On a quick side note, as to your point that BMW has never really made big engines .. they've had a V12 since the 80's with always at least one car with a V12 in the lineup, usually a 7-series although the 8-series also had a V12 in the 850i. I do agree that the majority of why many of us like or love BMW has to do with the various iterations of the I6. And, I do agree that the E60 M5 V10 engine is one sweet sounding, purely awesome masterpiece.

I test drove a 318Ti once before I got my 1993 325i and that thing felt like a piece of crap, not like a BMW. It was a 4-banger. There are cars in the line up I would never buy. But at the core, there are also cars that I would buy, and would do so before going to get a car from MB or Audi - which, don't even get me started on Audi, as the only one of their cars I'd even consider is the R8. With MB the choice becomes harder because I like quite a few of their cars, have owned several, and my favorite car of all time is the McLaren SLR.

ya i understand people thought it was a blasphemy to go to a V8 in the m3. BUT other than the 8 cylinders it was still very much like the E46. high revving n/a engine. where these new engines are lower revving, make less noise, maybe less exciting to some people etc.. so even though BMW has went back to inline 6 engines in the new M3 line up. its still different type of engine! that right there is a pretty big topic in the M4 thread section right now.

i understand what the I8 is, and trust me i understand why its important to some people. i am all for the going green movement. i think its very important. As long as BMW can get away with still offering performance cars, where the focus is performance! the new M4 has big shoes to fill. for the first time in a M3, one of the big focus was on getting better MPG. last generations were balls to the wall style of motors.

also the number of cylinders does not mean big engine. just because its a V12 does not mean its a big engine. those old V12 engine still were no bigger than the current V8 engines made today by M. benz makes the bigger motors.

big = displacement. but i do understand what you are trying to say. and for the most BMW is not known for making big motors. where GM is.

and rather BMW still makes emotionally appealing cars, thats totally opinion based. for some one who loved the old E46, E92, E60 M cars. BMW has gotten soft and makes less appealing engines ( IMO). so not everyone is happy. you gotta respect that. just read comments on here and other threads. SOME people are not that thrilled with BMW ATM.

[Deluxx3]

To me the CLA is not an appealing car. I dislike pretty much ever merc except the SLS now that's a beauty. If BMW would release a car that's less than 29 thousand dollars with a nav inside of, it would sell like hot cakes and retake the crown once again. I don't like people who are like I drive a Mercedes Benz and have a smirky face and then I'm like which one and their like the CLA and I'm like -__- are you fucking kidding me?

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

There will NOT be a FWD BMW 3er.

You haven't been exactly accurate for some while now.. All we hear now is a marketing B.S on an enthusiast forum. But I understand, you are a pawn in BMW's hands good luck man and it's really tough to be in your shoes right now It's just a matter of time

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

There will NOT be a FWD BMW 3er.

Odd, how many BMW's use the BMW formula today..? (RWD + LSD)


For instance, I have a 6month old $52,000 BMW 135is.. that doesn't have a LSD. So it is not a true BMW, even though it has the "S" moniker. (I was duped by your e-marketing, and further, cannot even easily add one). Same for the 3-series. So?



So, not only has BMW strayed from their rear wheel drive heritage, they circumvent customers from getting a real, rwd car from BMW (unless they buy into the M).
Scott, a simple 325is in the 90s had a LSD (or at least had the option) so laugh at Audi all you want, BMW has not been true to their customer in 15 years. Most here are done complaining and trying to explain to BMW why we are leaving.

You guys will figure it all out, when we are all driving your competitor's cars & BMW becomes the biggest SUV manufacturer. This level of un-focused attention to your core & uber-reliance on marketing has a cost. No enthusuaist cars, but BMW now makes suvs/savs, or this, or that?
I never heard anyone ask, or make a plea for an Active Tourer, but I have for a M135i in America, or a small sportwagon, or something other than just a 135i/335i. Epic fail and the reason the core client are leaving & trying other brands. Or ever wonder why so many others, have been waiting on a true successor to the e46 M3, because it was quintessential BMW stuff.. ie: 1M.



So, You cannot laugh at Audi for being AWD/FWD focused, when only a few of the cars YOU make, are true RWD.

It's called "hypocrisy" and it's laughable that you try to call our Audi, but forget BMW artificially limit their own customers. Again, with simple things such as when you buy a $50k performance BMW and it has a clutch delay valve or no real LSD option, bouncy sub-frame bushings, etc. You've bean-counted away BMW's heritage & it shows.


Honestly, does BMW's need more carbon fiber... or less clutch delay valves..?

Again SCOTT, BMW isn't pure to their own heritage, don't take that route here on this forum with us. I've been a BMW fan for 35 years & you have little that interest me since the i6 M3. So shame on your smug attitude... there is an exact reason you won't release the price list for the LSD on the M235, because you know it should be stock! Let-alone jack up the price for a mechanical LSD, for a vehicle already has an //M on it...? (let alone optional). Ford doesn't charge for lsds on their sportcars.

Guess what, the new S550 Mustang and Alpha/ATS based Z28 will be much less expensive than either an M2 or M4... and then we can buy a secondary American hatchback for DD.


FWIW, I forced myself to buy a 135is, because you ran out of 1M's... funny isn't it..? (My car is not worth the BMW price)

[Jamesons Viggen]

F30/f32 have an optional MP LSD available this year.

Originally Posted by w3rkn

Odd, how many BMW's use the BMW formula today..? (RWD + LSD)


For instance, I have a 6month old $52,000 BMW 135is.. that doesn't have a LSD. So it is not a true BMW, even though it has the "S" moniker. (I was duped by your e-marketing, and further, cannot even easily add one). Same for the 3-series. So?



So, not only has BMW strayed from their rear wheel drive heritage, they circumvent customers from getting a real, rwd car from BMW (unless they buy into the M).
Scott, a simple 325is in the 90s had a LSD (or at least had the option) so laugh at Audi all you want, BMW has not been true to their customer in 15 years. Most here are done complaining and trying to explain to BMW why we are leaving.

You guys will figure it all out, when we are all driving your competitor's cars & BMW becomes the biggest SUV manufacturer. This level of un-focused attention to your core & uber-reliance on marketing has a cost. No enthusuaist cars, but BMW now makes suvs/savs, or this, or that?
I never heard anyone ask, or make a plea for an Active Tourer, but I have for a M135i in America, or a small sportwagon, or something other than just a 135i/335i. Epic fail and the reason the core client are leaving & trying other brands. Or ever wonder why so many others, have been waiting on a true successor to the e46 M3, because it was quintessential BMW stuff.. ie: 1M.



So, You cannot laugh at Audi for being AWD/FWD focused, when only a few of the cars YOU make, are true RWD.

It's called "hypocrisy" and it's laughable that you try to call our Audi, but forget BMW artificially limit their own customers. Again, with simple things such as when you buy a $50k performance BMW and it has a clutch delay valve or no real LSD option, bouncy sub-frame bushings, etc. You've bean-counted away BMW's heritage & it shows.


Honestly, does BMW's need more carbon fiber... or less clutch delay valves..?

Again SCOTT, BMW isn't pure to their own heritage, don't take that route here on this forum with us. I've been a BMW fan for 35 years & you have little that interest me since the i6 M3. So shame on your smug attitude... there is an exact reason you won't release the price list for the LSD on the M235, because you know it should be stock! Let-alone jack up the price for a mechanical LSD, for a vehicle already has an //M on it...? (let alone optional). Ford doesn't charge for lsds on their sportcars.

Guess what, the new S550 Mustang and Alpha/ATS based Z28 will be much less expensive than either an M2 or M4... and then we can buy a secondary American hatchback for DD.


FWIW, I forced myself to buy a 135is, because you ran out of 1M's... funny isn't it..? (My car is not worth the BMW price)

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

There will NOT be a FWD BMW 3er.

But fwd 2er is OK

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

But fwd 2er is OK

Yes for an Active Tourer / Gran Tourer /X2. These models have to competitive in their respective markets.

[hector]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Regarding the i8. Many of you do not see the i8 as a halo car but it is.
Its exciting , groundbreaking , innovative and a shot in the dark for the industry.
....

wadr, did you mean: "a shot across the bow"?

[SCOTT26]

You guys will figure it all out, when we are all driving your competitor's cars & BMW becomes the biggest SUV manufacturer. This level of un-focused attention to your core & uber-reliance on marketing has a cost. No enthusuaist cars, but BMW now makes suvs/savs, or this, or that?

What cost is that? The global market has changed and for the US the story remains the same they want the SUV. Customers across the globe want the SAV.
Why do you think Audi and Mercedes-Benz have outline proposals for new SUVs?
BMW SAVs are huge sellers. That's a sign of the times. It is nothing to do with BMW, the markets respond , BMW has to act and adapt.
BMW still makes enthusiasts car as they already have been but progression of the market shows that customers choose BMW as a status rather than a choice. And this started in North America.

I never heard anyone ask, or make a plea for an Active Tourer, but I have for a M135i in America, or a small sportwagon, or something other than just a 135i/335i. Epic fail and the reason the core client are leaving & trying other brands. Or ever wonder why so many others, have been waiting on a true successor to the e46 M3, because it was quintessential BMW stuff.. ie: 1M.

Once again BMW are present in the global market.
They look at progression from the market , the customer demographic and the segment. 2er Active Tourer is in a growth segment its also a demanded concept in Europe, for customers who have progressed out with BMW but need the space and flexibility.
Active Tourer is a good car to drive because again in amongst the flexibility and spatial purpose you have a car that sits very close to the road more than expected with vehicles in this segment. Such appeal will apply to other markets also including North America.

If we look at the F31 it is being outsold in the USA by the X1 and X3, primarily because they want the SUV. Such a car as a Touring will not sell in the US in the quantities expected. When customers in the US are faced with wagon or SUV the SUV wins every time because of its status.



So, You cannot laugh at Audi for being AWD/FWD focused, when only a few of the cars YOU make, are true RWD.

I am sorry but what FWD BMW is on the market currently?
The Active Tourer is the first BMW model.
If you refer to MINI? Then you should Drive one. It is well praised for its dynamics.


It's called "hypocrisy" and it's laughable that you try to call our Audi, but forget BMW artificially limit their own customers. Again, with simple things such as when you buy a $50k performance BMW and it has a clutch delay valve or no real LSD option, bouncy sub-frame bushings, etc. You've bean-counted away BMW's heritage & it shows.

Not every BMW customer wants LSDs etc as the majority are bought for status.
The option is there for the customer to decide.
BMW are not selling you a VW underneath a fancy frock. Or as known in Munich - Volume disguised as premium.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Not every BMW customer wants LSDs etc as the majority are bought for status.
The option is there for the customer to decide.

No, it's not and hasn't been a factory option on a non-M BMW for more than 15 years. A lot of these responses show exactly why BMW is missing the boat, particularly with something like the F31...bring in a wagon with the lowest performance engine and then force the customer to accept the automatic transmission. My wife wants exactly that type of car from BMW, either an M135i 5-door or an F31 335i, either with a 6MT, but NO, the all-knowing BMW won't allow an American to have that choice. A 5-door M135i with available 6MT would be a hot seller here in the States, particularly if you allow us to buy the thing without a mandatory sunroof...just allow the choice you give almost every other market in the world!

At this point, Max Hoffman is probably laughing hysterically...or crying perhaps.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Wolf

You haven't been exactly accurate for some while now.. All we hear now is a marketing B.S on an enthusiast forum. But I understand, you are a pawn in BMW's hands good luck man and it's really tough to be in your shoes right now It's just a matter of time

Why is it tough to be in my shoes at the moment?
Sorry but I am in Asia constantly regarding BMWi and I am seeing how appreciated and excited customers are about the i3 and i8 and seeing how other customers act regarding other new models such as the M3 and M4 (Austin Yellow will be popular in China) .

And where are we as a company? A leader. Innovator ,We control the momentum. We might be second in the USA, but we are still no1. And sales in nearly all markets have grown in 2013 because of new products. We expect a very good 2014 Because there is a lot of new models arriving and we will have full sales runs globally on cars that were launched just before the close of the year.

Then we have new MINI on sale and Rolls-Royce which we have just unveiled the Ghost V Specification. A Wraith powered Ghost with over 600PS.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

No, it's not and hasn't been a factory option on a non-M BMW for more than 15 years. A lot of these responses show exactly why BMW is missing the boat, particularly with something like the F31...bring in a wagon with the lowest performance engine and then force the customer to accept the automatic transmission. My wife wants exactly that type of car from BMW, either an M135i 5-door or an F31 335i, either with a 6MT, but NO, the all-knowing BMW won't allow an American to have that choice. A 5-door M135i with available 6MT would be a hot seller here in the States, particularly if you allow us to buy the thing without a mandatory sunroof...just allow the choice you give almost every other market in the world!

At this point, Max Hoffman is probably laughing hysterically...or crying perhaps.

That's the issue. You want this car.
The rest of market does not want. You cannot sustain a model on sales that register a handful.

[SCOTT26]

FWIW, I forced myself to buy a 135is, because you ran out of 1M's... funny isn't it..? (My car is not worth the BMW price)

When I first reported on the 1M in 2010. I was asked by many on the thread when should I put my order in?' when should I submit deposit? etc. I told them now. Because it was not going to be available for long.
I do not know if you were present here at that time but those that did received their cars.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

That's the issue. You want this car.
The rest of market does not want. You cannot sustain a model on sales that register a handful.

Just like the vaunted BMWNA original plan, well, er NON-plan, for the E36 M3. All the marketing geniuses at BMWNA had the same opinion about the M3 back then that you are espousing now, perhaps even more against it even.

Since BMW has NEVER even bothered to bring such a car as I mentioned to the US market, it's total speculation on their part. Not once have they imported a hot wagon or 5-door with a 6MT, trick suspension, LSD, etc. If they put together something like an M135i ZHP in a 5-door configuration where ZHP equals LSD, sunroof optional, sports seats, M-sport+ suspension, etc, I seriously doubt they would have trouble selling every single one they import. That they haven't capitalized in the past 9 years on the huge goodwill attached to the ZHP moniker that exists in the USA marketplace tells you something about the current market planning operation...one major opportunity Max would not have left hanging dry.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

You guys will figure it all out, when we are all driving your competitor's cars & BMW becomes the biggest SUV manufacturer. This level of un-focused attention to your core & uber-reliance on marketing has a cost. No enthusuaist cars, but BMW now makes suvs/savs, or this, or that?

What cost is that? The global market has changed and for the US the story remains the same they want the SUV. Customers across the globe want the SAV.
Why do you think Audi and Mercedes-Benz have outline proposals for new SUVs?
BMW SAVs are huge sellers. That's a sign of the times. It is nothing to do with BMW, the markets respond , BMW has to act and adapt.
BMW still makes enthusiasts car as they already have been but progression of the market shows that customers choose BMW as a status rather than a choice. And this started in North America.

I never heard anyone ask, or make a plea for an Active Tourer, but I have for a M135i in America, or a small sportwagon, or something other than just a 135i/335i. Epic fail and the reason the core client are leaving & trying other brands. Or ever wonder why so many others, have been waiting on a true successor to the e46 M3, because it was quintessential BMW stuff.. ie: 1M.

Once again BMW are present in the global market.
They look at progression from the market , the customer demographic and the segment. 2er Active Tourer is in a growth segment its also a demanded concept in Europe, for customers who have progressed out with BMW but need the space and flexibility.
Active Tourer is a good car to drive because again in amongst the flexibility and spatial purpose you have a car that sits very close to the road more than expected with vehicles in this segment. Such appeal will apply to other markets also including North America.

If we look at the F31 it is being outsold in the USA by the X1 and X3, primarily because they want the SUV. Such a car as a Touring will not sell in the US in the quantities expected. When customers in the US are faced with wagon or SUV the SUV wins every time because of its status.



So, You cannot laugh at Audi for being AWD/FWD focused, when only a few of the cars YOU make, are true RWD.

I am sorry but what FWD BMW is on the market currently?
The Active Tourer is the first BMW model.
If you refer to MINI? Then you should Drive one. It is well praised for its dynamics.


It's called "hypocrisy" and it's laughable that you try to call our Audi, but forget BMW artificially limit their own customers. Again, with simple things such as when you buy a $50k performance BMW and it has a clutch delay valve or no real LSD option, bouncy sub-frame bushings, etc. You've bean-counted away BMW's heritage & it shows.

Not every BMW customer wants LSDs etc as the majority are bought for status.
The option is there for the customer to decide.
BMW are not selling you a VW underneath a fancy frock. Or as known in Munich - Volume disguised as premium.

Sorry, I am not going to accept you lip-service..!

The term "Global market for the US" is an oxymoron statement & "growth segment" is just your way of saying BMW want to pursue the super small SUV segment in Asia, but need a Country to dump the active tourer on, while BMW figures out Asian channels. Right?
No American is screaming for a mini-BMW sport activity vehicle.


Secondly, BMW's marketing in America is awkward and probably only parsed in California (west coast). You claim marketing statistics, but those numbers are skewed (as mentioned in this thread), as you don't offer AWD wagons, or hot hatches in America... so how can you claim "Active Tourer is a good car to drive because again in amongst the flexibility and spatial purpose you have a car that sits very close to the road more than expected with vehicles in this segment. Such appeal will apply to other markets also including North America." ...?

The M135i, (or 2-series hatchback) serves the EXACT same purpose... if it had AWD. (There is zero utility difference in an AWD M135 & an Active Tourer)


Thirdly, "I am sorry but what FWD BMW is on the market currently?"
Sorry my friend, but please step back from your hubris and answer the question put forth to you. Out of the 13, or so models in BMW's arsenal, how many follow BMW heritage of, true RWD..? How many models even have an option for true RWD..? (NONE...)

Coincidentally, your remarks are troublesome, because for the past 15 years I've wanted a LSD on every BMW I've ever wanted to buy... why wasn't it an option? And just because an LSD is now a $2k option on the 235i, You can't erase 15 years of history of no LSD and welded differentials.

So don't mock Audi, when BMW themselves have artificial sold their RWD heritage away... as I have a $52k sports car from BMW without an optional LSD. (Which is BMW sacrilege.)



SCOTT, if you continue to think the "most people buy a BMW for the status", instead of their handling characteristics & BMW drive... then I understand why BMW is now making cars, that are comparable to Cadillac & Audi.

As there is very little that differentiates BMW's from the rest of the world anymore. .... except maybe clutch delay valve... on a sports car. I wonder if GM puts those in their corvettes & Audi on their S3s..?

[w3rkn]

oops

[John_01]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

Lastly SCOTT, if you continue to think the most people buy a BMW for the status, instead of their handling characteristics & drive... then I understand why BMW is now making cars, that are comparable to Cadillac & Audi.

As there is very little that differentiates BMW's from the rest of the world anymore.

.... except maybe clutch delay valve... on a sports car. I wonder if GM puts those in their corvettes & Audi on their S3s..? 肀

That is pretty much what I am thinking. Its also seems a bit disrespectful to state that customers only buy cars for the status, implying they wouldn't be able to appreciate an authentic BMW driving experience. It comes across as a slightly confused marketing message when you use the slogan of "The Ultimate driving machine* ".

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by John_01

That is pretty much what I am thinking. Its also seems a bit disrespectful to state that customers only buy cars for the status, implying they wouldn't be able to appreciate an authentic BMW driving experience. It comes across as a slightly confused marketing message when you use the slogan of "The Ultimate driving machine* ".

Exactly. All the claims that any argument to the contrary is pointless since Americans only buy BMWs for status PERFECTLY exemplifies my prior comments in this thread and why BMW has reached the peak of bureaucratic disease being driven by "modern MBA-think" crap that comes out of so-called "business schools" these days. All that equals further and continued erosion of many decades of customer goodwill. Time will reveal this hubris was not earned by the current generation of BMW market planning management but simply assumed by them as they eviscerate many decades of their predecessor's work.

So just remember everyone: BMWNA market planning are heroic god-like figures who never make a mistake because they know that "status" is the only thing that matters to Americans anymore. This is why they pawn off crap like "electronic LSD" based on braking opposite side bs since those seeking this vaunted "status" won't care, won't know, etc. The motto is now apparently "milk the market of status-seeking numnuts as hard and as long as possible" before it falls apart.

They "know as fact" that an M135i ZHP would never sell here, which of course is total bs just like they "knew as fact" that there was no business case in North America for the E36 M3 and it took a massive letter writing campaign from the BMWCCA to rectify their stupidity.

The door has never been left open wider for the competition. The more denials from the insiders that this is true, the stronger that case is made. Audi and Mercedes have that opportunity to bust the door frame all apart not to mention some other makers. I actually wish I was at the helm of Audi NA at the moment since we'd make some moves that would seriously exploit this situation...

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Exactly. All the claims that any argument to the contrary is pointless since Americans only buy BMWs for status PERFECTLY exemplifies my prior comments in this thread and why BMW has reached the peak of bureaucratic disease being driven by "modern MBA-think" crap that comes out of so-called "business schools" these days. All that equals further and continued erosion of many decades of customer goodwill. Time will reveal this hubris was not earned by the current generation of BMW market planning management but simply assumed by them as they eviscerate many decades of their predecessor's work.

So just remember everyone: BMWNA market planning are heroic god-like figures who never make a mistake because they know that "status" is the only thing that matters to Americans anymore. This is why they pawn off crap like "electronic LSD" based on braking opposite side bs since those seeking this vaunted "status" won't care, won't know, etc. The motto is now apparently "milk the market of status-seeking numnuts as hard and as long as possible" before it falls apart.

They "know as fact" that an M135i ZHP would never sell here, which of course is total bs just like they "knew as fact" that there was no business case in North America for the E36 M3 and it took a massive letter writing campaign from the BMWCCA to rectify their stupidity.

The door has never been left open wider for the competition. The more denials from the insiders that this is true, the stronger that case is made. Audi and Mercedes have that opportunity to bust the door frame all apart not to mention some other makers. I actually wish I was at the helm of Audi NA at the moment since we'd make some moves that would seriously exploit this situation...

This is a great post and directly mirrors nearly the exact same conversation I had on New Years Eve.
(SCOTT should print his post out, & pass it around the office)


I think 2015 is going to be a really confusing year for BMW. Possibly an ousted exec. They have no clue what BMW's image stood for, and are going after mad profits, on the laurels of BMW's heritage & previous offerings.

Problem is, BMW's cars are all full of fluff & numbers now, zero substance.


BMW is making Asian BMW's for America.
We just want the cars you offer in your own country, nothing more. It's called respect and SCOTT you've lost a lot of respect with the BMW core, because of your flippant views of what constitutes American driver & a BMW enthusiast. Again, if BMW wants to make cars just good enough, to sell the BMW badge.. then there is zero reason to buy a BMW car.

BMW cars use to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, now they are just average cars w/BMW badge. But that is ok, because Your revenues are still ranked in the world? Honestly SCOTT, nobody cares about BMW themselves, or how well they are doing financially. People ONLY care about the actual cars BMW produces. We are not the Quandt Family... we don't care about BMW's bottom line, only that we once loved BMWs and wondering where our relationship has gone. Why have you sold us off..?



Scott:
Does the world really need to wait to 2016, before BMW can breathe and say: Behold.. a true BMW... witness the M2 ..?

Because as it stand, the ONLY quintessential BMW on the roads today, are the E46 M3 and the 1M. That doesn't leave much room for gloating or lipservice on BMW's part... Or, You guys still wondering, if a 183", $60,000 M4 is the answer..?

I know Mercedes Benz & Audi are listening, cuz I am now looking at their brands. Very easy to do when BMW copied them.

[Shaw]

So what's up with the following article then?
"BMW posts record sales for 2013 ahead of M-B and Audi"
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle16295056/