[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Read up on new IRA legislation.

China is on the "foreign entity of concern" list. They will never qualify for the IRA $7500 tax credits, due to this. Being down $7500 to competitors is a massive barrier to entry into the US market.

Unless they introduce 25k ev’s.

Which is why Tesla is the leader in this game period. I said it many times and I’ll say it again. It’ll take about 5-8 years for car makers to catch up. With the tesla price cuts, nothing on the market competes with it, no matter what variant of whatever Tesla model you’re looking at.

Let’s go Elon!!!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider.1127

that´s was two years ago....

First it was a conspiracy that governments were pushing people into ev, now it’s because pollution etc.

Evs are retarded and requires modern day slavery in the form of destabilizing counties to plunder their resources.

It’s too look and deep of a conversation for this topic, but anyone claiming EVs are cleaner probably is ok with exploitation of people for the sake of feeding their ego.

What more economical- keeping a car you have or buying a new one that requires Massive amounts natural resources?

[Socal_R8]

the whole notion that EV's are somehow plateued on technology is also hilarious


EV tech is just getting started...battery tech is excelerating rapidly

longer range

10 minute charging

almost fully recyclable battery

etc...

https://electrek.co/2023/02/09/this-...in-10-minutes/

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/s...er-210281.html

https://www.energymonitor.ai/sectors...cle-batteries/

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/09...l-performance/

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

the whole notion that EV's are somehow plateued on technology is also hilarious

Who said they plateued?

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Who said they plateued?

all the usual handwringing about the grid, charing times, etc...like its 2035 tomorrow

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by akin67

I guess when someone provides a well researched and FACTUAL response you assume it is a response by Chatgpt. Some of us in this country still place a great value on education, perhaps you should try it sometimes.

Dang! Our first thread elitist!!!! Where have you been hiding? Dealing with people like you in person face to face is a complete and total blast. It usually ends with the elitist storming out of the room.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by akin67

Sometimes the government needs to get into industrial policy. Our economic competitors, China, Japan, Korea and even the EU all have industrial policies in place that support nascent but vital industries of the future. If we did not do the same we would be left behind. If we do not support the EV industry today, it is not going to prevent the transition to electric vehicles. All you would be doing is to ensure the vehicles everyone will be driving in 20 years will be from China, Japan, Korea and Germany. Also, advances in technology will have far broader impacts than just EVs. Being able to make more compact, lighter and efficient batteries will effect hundreds of industries. How can we afford not to subsidize and incentivize American industry to pursue these developments? We have always provided subsidies to certain industries. We continue to provide billions of dollars annually in subsidies to the oil industry. We do the same with the agricultural industry. Even when the price of oil was over $100 a barrel where industry had every incentive to invest on their own, we continued to provide those subsidies. Why is it bad now that we are subsidizing the EV and battery industries?

No one is forcing anyone to purchase an EV or not purchase an ICE vehicle. And they wont for decades to come. Buy whichever you prefer.

That, sir, is a complete and total exaggerated BS lie. I won’t blame you though. You’ve just heard it parroted from people that hate the oil industry. I think in the future on this forum, it will be difficult to take you seriously after making such a statement like that.

Oh, and don’t waste your time copying and pasting articles. I know where you will be getting it from.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm sure I'll get booted if I respond with political commentary, so I'll refrain from explaining these errors of thought. But simply, subsidies are just the Government taxing industry less than it really wants to. Personal tax rebates for EV are just compensating for the price delta between the cost of ICE and EV (battery cost) to make EV somewhat affordable to adopt. The next forcing function to adopt to EV is a massive increase in the motor fuel tax. Just wait.

He knows that brother. There is no doubt in my mind. It’s just what he wrote sounds good to him plus he hears it all the time from the news outlets he watches so it must be true.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

exactly....the whole thing about forcing people to EV's is a bizarre go to falacy for the anti-EV crowd

Nobody on this board will out live the last ICE vehicles on the road

Um…….Ah……This stuff really seems to fly over your head. Let me help you out.

How is not allowing any more combustion engine vehicles to be built after 2035 not forcing people to buy electric vehicles?

I don’t hate electric vehicles. I bet MOST of the people here arguing against them being made mandatory to manufacture through unguided emotional legislation don’t hate them either.

[akin67]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm sure I'll get booted if I respond with political commentary, so I'll refrain from explaining these errors of thought. But simply, subsidies are just the Government taxing industry less than it really wants to. Personal tax rebates for EV are just compensating for the price delta between the cost of ICE and EV (battery cost) to make EV somewhat affordable to adopt. The next forcing function to adopt to EV is a massive increase in the motor fuel tax. Just wait.

More accurately subsidies are picking specific industries it considers to represent strategic or political importance and to support them using tax revenues collected from everyone. The government has been doing this for decades. This is nothing new. Why is there ethanol in our gasoline? We expend far more energy to produce ethanol than the energy we derive from it. Yet thanks to the corn lobby we are all forced to put gasoline in our cars that is laced with that crap. We provide billions every year to our farmers because of the agricultural lobby. We provide billions in subsidies to defense contractors to preserve jobs in specific states by acquiring weapons even the pentagon does not want. We bail out banks that foolishly made risky and illegal bets. We provide them interest free loans for tens of trillions of dollars so they can lend the money to small businesses revive the economy and do nothing when they take those interest free loans and buy treasury bonds and get interest from the same government that gave them the money for free. Most of these don't even represent some strategic future significance for us. At least with EVs we are investing in an industry that will make the US more competitive against foreign rivals.

EVs are here, and in the very near future they will dominate the autos driven on US roads. Whether the US decides to manufacture those autos and batteries will not change that reality. In the 80's and 90's Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Singapore,... all subsidized their semiconductor industries and now dominate those industries. Is that what you want to happen with EVs?

[akin67]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Dang! Our first thread elitist!!!! Where have you been hiding? Dealing with people like you in person face to face is a complete and total blast. It usually ends with the elitist storming out of the room.

I guess when you can't debate topics on their merit the name calling starts. Typical course of action for your kind. Instead of politicizing and resorting to infantile name calling how about we just stick to a debate about the topic on hand?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by akin67

I guess when you can't debate topics on their merit the name calling starts. Typical course of action for your kind. Instead of politicizing and resorting to infantile name calling how about we just stick to a debate about the topic on hand?

That’s not name-calling. I was calling you out for your remarkably offensive slam to that member. But then you know that.

[akin67]

Originally Posted by Patton250

He knows that brother. There is no doubt in my mind. It’s just what he wrote sounds good to him plus he hears it all the time from the news outlets he watches so it must be true.

The news outlets you watch just paid out $780 million dollars for their lies. They also admitted in court that their journalists are not journalists and are just there for entertaining content. So yeah you keep getting your news (alternate reality) from them and let's see how far that gets you in life.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by akin67

The news outlets you watch just paid out $780 million dollars for their lies. They also admitted in court that their journalists are not journalists and are just their for entertaining content. So yeah you keep getting your news (alternate reality) from them and let's see how far that gets you in life.

And we are done

[akin67]

Originally Posted by Patton250

That’s not name-calling. I was calling you out for your remarkably offensive slam to that member. But then you know that.

So I guess in your world when someone accuses my comment of being computer generated CharGPT I should not respond in kind? If you are so concerned about calling out offensive remarks, why didn't you call out his comments? Oh thats right, since he was defending your train of thought he couldn't possibly do wrong no matter how offensive his comments. And yes we are definitely done.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

the usual handwringing about the grid

Looking at our present circumstances and projecting when they will improve to where we need them to be to facilitate our transition to EVs is not hand-wringing.

There is a difference between hand-wringing and acknowledging functional reality.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/addin...160838257.html

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Looking at our present circumstances and projecting when they will improve to where we need them to be to facilitate our transition to EVs is not hand-wringing.

There is a difference between hand-wringing and acknowledging functional reality.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/addin...160838257.html

Maybe the governments both state and federal desire to increase the amount of electric vehicles on the road, will light a fire up their butts to improve the grid, which, as most people who live in reality know, is already in massive trouble, even if there was no such thing as electric vehicles.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I remember that top gear UK piece from like 15 years ago when Jeremy Clarkson was like, “sooner or later we’ll all be driving Chinese cars.”

Guess he might be right after all.

But china already has some pretty cool ev.

We need America to keep pushing to compete! We need to take over with our ev’s!!!!

I don’t mean to slam Chinese manufacturing but most of the stuff that comes from over there is absolute junk. Most of it is hella cheap versions of stuff they copied and ripped off from other countries manufactures. I’m sure their electric vehicles are no different. They will probably produce an incredibly cheap version of some technology they stole from Tesla and call it their own. So I agree with you and I hope US manufacturers take the lead on innovation when it comes to electric vehicles. You know German and Japanese manufactures will. Just like they’ve done with ice.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Um…….Ah……This stuff really seems to fly over your head. Let me help you out.

How is not allowing any more combustion engine vehicles to be built after 2035 not forcing people to buy electric vehicles?

I don’t hate electric vehicles. I bet MOST of the people here arguing against them being made mandatory to manufacture through unguided emotional legislation don’t hate them either.

talk about flying over someones head...lmao

do you really think anybody on this board is going to out live ICE cars built today??
Do you think all the ICE cars are headed to the crusher on Jan 1, 2035?

YOU will never be forced to buy an EV in your lifetime, but someday you may finally realize they aren't the devil and actually own one

You seem to be more worried about future generations right to buy new CO2 spewing ICE vehicles than the air they breath and the planet they will inherent

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

talk about flying over someones head...lmao

do you really think anybody on this board is going to out live ICE cars built today??
Do you think all the ICE cars are headed to the crusher on Jan 1, 2035?

YOU will never be forced to buy an EV in your lifetime, but someday you may finally realize they aren't the devil and actually own one

You seem to be more worried about future generations right to buy new CO2 spewing ICE vehicles than the air they breath and the planet they will inherent

Thank you for verifying that you don’t get it. I’ll stop trying to explain it to you now. I know you didn’t do it on purpose, but this last post of yours has been very helpful.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Thank you for verifying that you don’t get it. I’ll stop trying to explain it to you now. I know you didn’t do it on purpose, but this last post of yours has been very helpful.

talk about not getting it...you are absolutely clueless about anything EV yet you spew hyperbolic nonsense nonstop on here like about how they will never make it to 2035 becuese they cant fill up in 5 minutes....

I'm done...

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

I'm done...

:-)