[Raikkonen]

Interesting article I read this morning regarding BMW's North American CEO, Ludwig Willisch.

It discussed his disappointment with the take rate of diesel BMW cars in the US market (not SUV's however), but he also mentioned this:

He revealed that the stick shift take rate for non-M 3-Series and 4-Series models has fallen into the low single digits.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not saying it's by any means a surprise, but sad nonetheless....

Diesel engines are off to a slow sales start in BMW's U.S.-market car models, the brand's top executive in the states has revealed.

Speaking with Car and Driver, BMW of North America CEO Ludwig Willisch stated that initial demand for diesel-engined 3-Series and 5-Series models hasn't exactly been strong.

"The 328d is selling so-so, the 5-series is a bit disappointing," Willisch said. "These are still early days, and low fuel prices haven't helped diesel technology."

Launched last summer, the 328d is powered by a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder with 180 horsepower, 280 lb-ft of torque and a 45-mpg highway rating. The 535d utilizes a twin-turbo 3.0-liter straight-six that's good for 38 mpg along with 255 ponies and 413 lb-ft of twist.

On the other hand, BMW's diesel crossovers have fared beter, with Willisch commenting that he's pleased with X5 diesel volume and "quite positive that the X3 diesel will do well."

Over the course of the wide-ranging interview, Willisch also defended BMW's rapidly expanding model range, claiming that new niche products like the 4-Series Gran Coupe bring different buyers to the brand. Additionally, he refused to comment on the future of the manual transmission option for the M5 and M6 beyond their current generation, and revealed that the stick shift take rate for non-M 3-Series and 4-Series models has fallen into the low single digits."

[Falafel Combo]

It's no surprise. North America is one of their biggest markets (if not the biggest) and yet they do not offer many of their 3 and 4 series configurations with manual transmission. Is it any surprise that he take rate has dropped? It's because they aren't making them! DUH! Lol


And that incredibly awesome sport 8AT sure is not helping either ...

[Falafel Combo]

They should adjust those calculations to be based on the models which they offer the MT an not the 3/4 series sales as a whole.

[fecurtis]

Manual Transmissions Dying a Slow Death...

FTFY

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

Is it any surprise that the take rate has dropped? It's because they aren't making them! DUH! Lol

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around.

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

And that incredibly awesome sport 8AT sure is not helping either.

This is the real reason.

[focal]

no 320i/328i Xdrive in 6MT forces a lot higher ticket price in the 335i Xdrive

I settled on the 328i RWD just to keep the manual within my budget.

also, killing the manual on the wagon will also lesson up take. I couldn't consider the wagon (gas or diesel) because it's 8AT.

Take all the above into the consideration and there will be a lot less 6MT cars on the lots. Most buyers who love the car(s) who are 6MT drivers historically, love the 8AT enough and settle with it just to be able to buy and deliver immediately.

The F30 8AT uptake has been so high it's only going to kill the 6MT faster. it's an awesome transmission, but seeing the countless threads of 8AT vs 6MT, there are definitely some long term regrets for some. Not because it's not awesome, but because it's still an AT. Progress for the sake of progress is not always the better choice for an emotional connection to your car.

The only solution would be to standardize emissions to the European or to a new world standard so certification would be less costly. This would give buyers the option to order any combination of transmission and engine for those willing to WAIT for delivery.

[Saphirschwarz]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

And that incredibly awesome sport 8AT sure is not helping either ...

It's also incredibly boring.

I admit it is way easier to text while driving thou

[335i_4D]

Originally Posted by Saphirschwarz

It's also incredibly boring.

And also incredibely fast, and never misses a shift !


But to go back on the subject, most Car journalist say that this trend is all across the car industry.

Even in subcompact, the most equipped line usually isn't available with stick.

With a 100HP, 2000+ lbs car, I'd take stick anytime...

[f30GTR]

here goes another thread of manual vs auto...

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around.


...

Chicken and egg argument.


I say lets just recognize that it is just easier to streamline the production of automatic transmissions, they are cheaper to make, better MPG (strict standards coming), better performance, greater appeal to more customers, ... but please BMW, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. I mean come on! No MT on the 4 GC? No MT on the 328xi? 320xi? Wagons? Diesel? All no MT offerings. Pretty weak!

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

Chicken and egg argument.


I say lets just recognize that it is just easier to streamline the production of automatic transmissions, they are cheaper to make, better MPG (strict standards coming), better performance, greater appeal to more customers, ... but please BMW, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. I mean come on! No MT on the 4 GC? No MT on the 328xi? 320xi? Wagons? Diesel? All no MT offerings. Pretty weak!

I'll agree all day long that BMW not offering manual transmissions on those cars is a travesty, and I'll also agree that no matter how good the 8AT is (it is damned good), it won't ever replace the experience of driving a manual transmission car, choosing whatever gear you want at whatever moment you want, right or wrong.

I give BMW a little credit as a company, though - if the market demanded manual transmissions in more cars, they would be putting manual transmissions in more cars. The reality is that the take rate is very low on models where they do offer it, and the MT community is going to be overrepresented on this board.

[ThaiBruin]

At least the M cars will continue to have manual options for the foreseeable future. Last I read, at least a 1/3 of M cars sold are manuals. So for those of us who want to continue driving a 3/4 series with a manual transmission, we just have to... make a lot more money.

[fecurtis]

Even the M5 and M6 have manuals, but that probably won't last long either. M GmbH boss has publicly admitted that the only reason they put them in is because the American market (their largest market) throws such a hissy fit if they ever decided to exclude them and that he'd rather it just be DCT only.

In case no one believes me, here's the source (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/18/s...rned-at-bmw-m/).

[Y]ou'll be able to spec either the seven-speed dual-clutch 'box or a six-speed manual [in the F10 M5]. This fact seems to irritate Biermann. "Here's the problem with the stick," Biermann tells us in a slightly annoyed tone, "only the U.S. wants it. And with the DCT, there's no question about how it will behave. With a manual, the driver is a serious question." Biermann's argument is clear: Driver's suck and the DCT is so good that a manual decreases the performance. Further – and this wasn't explicitly said but clearly implied – the amount of engineering resources that go into adapting the 560-hp sedan to accept a manual cog-swapper is significant. Biermann and his team would undoubtedly prefer to shift those funds and man hours into other endeavors, but they can't because the U.S. – M's largest market – demands it. And Biermann takes it one step further. "I don't know how long we'll be able to keep doing this, but at some point, we'll just have to say 'no'". So is the F10 the last of the manual M5s? We wouldn't be surprised.

So manuals in M cars may soon be a thing of the past too.

[JJS]

The only 3/4 series models that are not made by BMW with the 6MT is the 3.0L diesels (330d or 335d). Too much torque for them, apparently. But all other Coupes, Gran Coupes, Sedans and Wagons are made with 6MT. I know, I have a RWD 335i Touring with 6MT and it's the bee's knees.

That said, if BMW stopped making the 6MT for my car, and offered only the 8AT for the same money, I won't cry into my beer and buy another car. I'll take the 8AT, but the 6MT makes me just a little bit happier.

People said CDs killed vinyl records two decades ago. Guess what? They were wrong. As long as there is a demand for anachronisms, some quarters will continue to feed the need. It just may not have your preferred labels.

[DrivenByE30]

I did my part... do yours...

At least i wont feel guilty i contributed to its death...

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by JJS

The only 3/4 series models that are not made by BMW with the 6MT is the 3.0L diesels (330d or 335d). Too much torque for them, apparently. But all other Coupes, Gran Coupes, Sedans and Wagons are made with 6MT. I know, I have a RWD 335i Touring with 6MT and it's the bee's knees.

You also don't live in the USA - 328d, Gran Coupes, GT, convertibles, wagons do not come with manuals here. It's an emissions certification thing - don't ask.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

... but please BMW, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Why would it only rain on your leg?

[amoeba]

I, too, am trying to keep manuals alive.

[stewie]

It should also be mentioned that after decades of paying extra for an automatic, BMW is now charging the same for each transmission, effectively making AT a "free" option in North America. My understanding is that this is the only market in the world where this pricing exists. As a result, MT buyers are effectively subsidizing AT buyers. I have always bought MT, but the lack of a "discount" on the DIY transmission had me seriously considering the AT for the first time ever. Stuck with the stick shift, but frankly I'm not happy about the pricing. At least they still offer it, I guess...

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Why would it only rain on your leg?

Good point! I take it you have troubles keeping long term relationships?

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

Good point! I take it you have troubles keeping long term relationships?

Lol no, I don't

[G30 B58]

an A/T will also appeal to a broader audience come resale time.....