[chillindrdude]

It's time for me to step out of my 944, as I have progressed to the Intermediate run group.

I am looking to get into a E36 or E46 M3.

This will be a HPDE car, not looking to go racing or TTs. But I will be building it so it's road legal to drive to the track.

As I see it....(feel free to comment or disprove my assumptions)

E36
------
Pros: good race parts support
Easier/cheaper to work on
Manual
Lighter
Cons: not much more power than an E36 328i
Less robust chassis than E46
Less sophisticated suspension geometry than E46

E46
------
Pros: more modern appeal
SMG II
More power/tq
Better chassis and suspension

Cons:
Heavy
Needs improved cooling for track duty
More expensive to work on.


Comments welcome!

[E90Alex]

You cant have a manual tranny and SMG tranny as pros for both if you are comparing

[davis449]

Originally Posted by E90Alex

You cant have a manual tranny and SMG tranny as pros for both if you are comparing

The SMG (I or II, doesn't matter) is NEVER a plus, anway. That needs to be taken out of the Pros column for the e46 altogether.

[NoSHAM3]

My vote: e36m

Put the money saved into brakes, rubber, maintenance, and track time

[Kgolf31]

E36M all day every day.

Remember, you have to think about the time if (and most likely) when you go off track and hit something.

[W///]

SMG is never a plus. Also, ironically, the E36 had chassis reinforcements that the E46 M3 didn't have, thus why you see a ton of subframe issues. Definitely something you'll have to consider when you are planning a track build.

If you have the money, the E46 would prob be my choice. If you want a more back to basics car, then E36.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

It's time for me to step out of my 944, as I have progressed to the Intermediate run group.

I am looking to get into a E36 or E46 M3.

This will be a HPDE car, not looking to go racing or TTs. But I will be building it so it's road legal to drive to the track.

As I see it....(feel free to comment or disprove my assumptions)

E36
------
Pros: good race parts support
Easier/cheaper to work on
Manual
Lighter
Cons: not much more power than an E36 328i
Less robust chassis than E46
Less sophisticated suspension geometry than E46

E46
------
Pros: more modern appeal
SMG II
More power/tq
Better chassis and suspension

Cons:
Heavy
Needs improved cooling for track duty
More expensive to work on.


Comments welcome!

I talked to 3 instructors who switched from E46 to E36M and they said it's a better overall car. They said balance and weight is better on E36M for HPDE and racing. Another idea, buy e36M shell and drop the Euro engine in it.

[SunnyD]

E36 M3 w/S54...done.

[DaBean]

Not sure what the price delta is between the two, and how much you're looking to spend. If you want a car that's great out of the gate, the E46M is phenomenal. Not sure about the added cooling - all you need to do is get a set of track tires, a suspension setup, new front rotors, and pads for front/back. Then you have a very fast car.

The E36 will require more work to get to that point, but will be a bit cheaper to run.

If you're planning on just doing DEs, just get an E46 - it'll be fun, more reliable, and better to/from track. If you ultimately want to get into TT, then the E36 is your car

[W///]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

E36 M3 w/S54...done.

This. End thread

[meez]

The only pro for SMG is the $$ BMW made by expanding their sales of the car to consumers who wanted to pose as "enthusiasts."
It is highly documented that the BMW SMG transmissions fail consistently and are not meant for track duty.
You need to do more research as your pros and cons list kind of sucks.

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by DaBean

Not sure what the price delta is between the two, and how much you're looking to spend. If you want a car that's great out of the gate, the E46M is phenomenal. Not sure about the added cooling - all you need to do is get a set of track tires, a suspension setup, new front rotors, and pads for front/back. Then you have a very fast car.

The E36 will require more work to get to that point, but will be a bit cheaper to run.

If you're planning on just doing DEs, just get an E46 - it'll be fun, more reliable, and better to/from track. If you ultimately want to get into TT, then the E36 is your car

Brain says E36, but heart says E46. Price delta is probably about $6K, doable

From reading around, it was my understanding is that the SMG II is faster than a manual. But requires cooling upgrades for track duty reliability. Clunky on the street but suited well for track speeds/driving.

For either car, right off the bat, I would do interior strip, race seats/harness, roll bar/half cage.

I would address brakes and suspension shortly thereafter.

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by meez

You need to do more research as your pros and cons list kind of sucks.

How's about you enlighten me then?

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

Brain says E36, but heart says E46. Price delta is probably about $6K, doable

From reading around, it was my understanding is that the SMG II is faster than a manual. But requires cooling upgrades for track duty reliability. Clunky on the street but suited well for track speeds/driving.

For either car, right off the bat, I would do interior strip, race seats/harness, roll bar/half cage.

I would address brakes and suspension shortly thereafter.

Doesn't mean it's better

[SunnyD]

Did you research "SMG Pump Failure" as well?

[NoSHAM3]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

This will be a HPDE car, not looking to go racing or TTs. But I will be building it so it's road legal to drive to the track.

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

From reading around, it was my understanding is that the SMG II is faster than a manual. But requires cooling upgrades for track duty reliability. Clunky on the street but suited well for track speeds/driving.

My .02 are as follows:

SMG being faster than a manual should be a moot point if racing/TTs are not your focus.

Go manual and enjoy the more engaging experience.

[chillindrdude]

It isn't my intention to make this into a SMG vs Manual debate. I would surely consider the manual E46 as well.

[DaBean]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

Brain says E36, but heart says E46. Price delta is probably about $6K, doable

From reading around, it was my understanding is that the SMG II is faster than a manual. But requires cooling upgrades for track duty reliability. Clunky on the street but suited well for track speeds/driving.

For either car, right off the bat, I would do interior strip, race seats/harness, roll bar/half cage.

I would address brakes and suspension shortly thereafter.

Go with your heart.

As for SMG cooling, I haven't had any issues. There was a pump replacement after 4 years of ownership, under warranty, but I haven't had a problem since (at 11 years now).

It's not clunky, but there is a small "adoption curve" - once you get used to it, and drive it like a manual, it's great. On the track, it's a blast!

[Law]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

E36 M3 w/S54...done.

This man speaks the truth

[buddalun]

E36.

Your list is strange.

[M5Beast_NYC]

I have an e46 m3 so I'm biased on the e46

[Twixboy]

Neither, go for the Z4M