[bbbbmw]

A few months ago I decided to buy a new car. I've had BMWs on and off since the early 1980's, and drove a 2002 in high school, so BMW has always been my go-to. I went to the dealer, and didn't see a single car I wanted to drive - for the first time ever. Lots of turbo4's, and cars like the 320i and x1 that are quite a departure from performance machines. I went to the Mini dealer, and was told that the new Mini engine is a BMW 4 cyl (albeit different intake or something). The mini was much more fun, but the suspension was lacking. Of the two, I'd buy the mini.

But I bought a Porsche instead - if you like what BMW used to be, try the Porsche.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

A few months ago I decided to buy a new car. I've had BMWs on and off since the early 1980's, and drove a 2002 in high school, so BMW has always been my go-to. I went to the dealer, and didn't see a single car I wanted to drive - for the first time ever. Lots of turbo4's, and cars like the 320i and x1 that are quite a departure from performance machines. I went to the Mini dealer, and was told that the new Mini engine is a BMW 4 cyl (albeit different intake or something). The mini was much more fun, but the suspension was lacking. Of the two, I'd buy the mini.

But I bought a Porsche instead - if you like what BMW used to be, try the Porsche.

So, you remember that 2002 and those early 80s 3ers offered 4 cylinder motors that didn't even begin to compare to the modern 4 cylinders, right? And that BMW has always sold WAY, WAY more four bangers in the rest of the world than anything else?

How many passengers can you get in the back seat of your Porsche? How big and useful is the trunk?

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

A few months ago I decided to buy a new car. I've had BMWs on and off since the early 1980's, and drove a 2002 in high school, so BMW has always been my go-to. I went to the dealer, and didn't see a single car I wanted to drive - for the first time ever. Lots of turbo4's, and cars like the 320i and x1 that are quite a departure from performance machines. I went to the Mini dealer, and was told that the new Mini engine is a BMW 4 cyl (albeit different intake or something). The mini was much more fun, but the suspension was lacking. Of the two, I'd buy the mini.

But I bought a Porsche instead - if you like what BMW used to be, try the Porsche.

Guess your dealer didn't have 340, M3, M4, M5, M6, X5M, X6M, M235, 435, etc., etc.

BMW still makes plenty of performance machines and many are much better than what BMW used to be.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

So, you remember that 2002 and those early 80s 3ers offered 4 cylinder motors that didn't even begin to compare to the modern 4 cylinders, right? And that BMW has always sold WAY, WAY more four bangers in the rest of the world than anything else?

How many passengers can you get in the back seat of your Porsche? How big and useful is the trunk?

Sorry - I wasn't clear, and that wasn't my point. BMW makes a great 4cyl, and a fantastic 6cyl. But the new turbo is being substituted for the 6, and the last time I looked had the stoplight shutoff that had to be defeated each time you started the car. The M trim package is needed to make the car any fun, the dct is not available any longer (at least on the 2 series), and more and more corner-cutting. IMO, BMW has become a car for the masses, instead of an enthusiasts car.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Sorry - I wasn't clear, and that wasn't my point. BMW makes a great 4cyl, and a fantastic 6cyl. But the new turbo is being substituted for the 6, and the last time I looked had the stoplight shutoff that had to be defeated each time you started the car. The M trim package is needed to make the car any fun, the dct is not available any longer (at least on the 2 series), and more and more corner-cutting. IMO, BMW has become a car for the masses, instead of an enthusiasts car.

In the M3/M4 at least (maybe others) this can be turned off and left off. No reason to reset every time you start the car.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Sorry - I wasn't clear, and that wasn't my point. BMW makes a great 4cyl, and a fantastic 6cyl. But the new turbo is being substituted for the 6, and the last time I looked had the stoplight shutoff that had to be defeated each time you started the car. The M trim package is needed to make the car any fun, the dct is not available any longer (at least on the 2 series), and more and more corner-cutting. IMO, BMW has become a car for the masses, instead of an enthusiasts car.

The start/stop now keeps the last setting and in older models the dealer will change the coding so that it does.

I wish BMW had designed a small displacement turbo inline six, but that's not what they did and the fact is the turbo four has more performance than the E46 M54 and the E9x N52 by a significant margin.

With the LCI 3er offers the Track package across the F3x board, which yields virtually identical handling characteristics as the M Sport. Prior to the LCI the Sport line and the M Sport both came standard with the sport suspension and both could be had with performance tires at no additional cost. The adaptive suspension was available on all models.

The DCT was a unique offering on the 135i and was never available on the non-M 3er. I haven't read a single review that said the new 8AT has less performance than the DCT.

The E9x had better materials than the E46 and the F3x has the same quality of materials as the E9x.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

The start/stop now keeps the last setting and in older models the dealer will change the coding so that it does.

I wish BMW had designed a small displacement turbo inline six, but that's not what they did and the fact is the turbo four has more performance than the E46 M54 and the E9x N52 by a significant margin.

With the LCI 3er offers the Track package across the F3x board, which yields virtually identical handling characteristics as the M Sport. Prior to the LCI the Sport line and the M Sport both came standard with the sport suspension and both could be had with performance tires at no additional cost. The adaptive suspension was available on all models.

The DCT was a unique offering on the 135i and was never available on the non-M 3er. I haven't read a single review that said the new 8AT has less performance than the DCT.

The E9x had better materials than the E46 and the F3x has the same quality of materials as the E9x.

I think I just read that the M2 has the DCT - which is more evidence of the point I was making.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Sorry - I wasn't clear, and that wasn't my point. BMW makes a great 4cyl, and a fantastic 6cyl. But the new turbo is being substituted for the 6, and the last time I looked had the stoplight shutoff that had to be defeated each time you started the car. The M trim package is needed to make the car any fun, the dct is not available any longer (at least on the 2 series), and more and more corner-cutting. IMO, BMW has become a car for the masses, instead of an enthusiasts car.

These kinds of comparisons always confuse me.

The porsche is designed from the get-go as a sports car.

The BMWs, for the most part, are designed as passenger cars, in other words, to take more than 2 people places.

So you are going to have inherently different traits due to this and it's going to be inherently more difficult to compete for raw "performance". I guess a lot of people are not aware that BMW sells 316ds, 318s, 320s, 520s, 518ds and others. It's only in the US where we've insisted on having "more power" and the makers have assumed their lower-power cheaper models wouldn't sell.

If you want to even get close, you should be comparing the M series cars, but even then it's not really a great comparision, because very few are intended to be performance chassis from the beginning. i8, old M1...M2 is close, but based on the 2 series, and from them it's either based on passenger cars or big heavy touring type cars, its apples to oranges.

If you want to compare the porsche against something that engages you and has driving dynamics/performance, look at cars like Corvette, Z/28, GT350, offerings from Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, etc.

Porsche is the odd one out IMO, they have focused solely on performance cars for nearly their entire existence, the Panemera, Cayenne and Macan are recent departures from this.

[G4BR13L]

How come there are so many threads created on a bimmer forum by people that glorify their Porsches and how these cars are better than any BMW car? Especially the threads where people compare a 200.000 euro GT3 with a 75.000 euro sports sedan...

[///F80M3]

Originally Posted by Z3URP13T

How come there are so many threads created on a bimmer forum by people that glorify their Porsches and how these cars are better than any BMW car? Especially the threads where people compare a 200.000 euro GT3 with a 75.000 euro sports sedan...

We should just have a Porsche sub forum lol

[bueller]

Originally Posted by ///F80M3

We should just have a Porsche sub forum lol

I have a 1M and a Boxster S. I love both cars, they are like children, I don't love one more than the other. They both do things very well, just differently, each one has its own endearing personality.

Where I live, if you drive a Chevy truck, right after you put in the 13000k HID kit, lift that bitch and get some huge wheels, you have to install your sticker of Calvin peeing on a Dodge or Ford logo. I have never understood the need to pee on other peoples stuff to feel better about what you have.

Yes, BMW compromises, some things have become cheaper, other things have become better. From a driving experience standpoint my Boxster is not as rewarding as my 993 was (I regret selling whenever I think of it) While it was a great car, the Boxster is a lot more dynamic, it adjusts to whatever I am doing.

Things change, BMW makes way more products than they used to, but you can't say that because their product range has expanded that they don't make sporty cars anymore. I agree, some of the cars they make, I have no interest in, on the other hand, the M2 looks like an awesome car! The M3 / M4 is an amazing car, and if you go easy on the options, it is an awesome deal compared to just about any Porsche.

I guess if money is no object, Porsche is a good way to go, then again, my favorite all time car is the McLaren F1, and I hear it has a fantastic motor!

B.

[bbbbmw]

My bad - I shouldn't have made the comment. I didn't really mean to compare the BMW to Porsche, for all the reasons stated above; they aren't similar cars, and would be loved for separate reasons.

I'm looking for a car I love to drive - for decades it's been the BMW, but at present they don't make anything I love - it seems like they are trying to appeal to the (wealthier) masses. I've always liked the smaller cars vs. the larger ones (the 7-series does nothing for me, the 6 is about as bland as it gets, the 5 is just okay). Their dealer network is very weak, and they don't stand behind their cars nearly like their competition. It's odd they dropped the clutch replacement from the maintenance program - with less than 10% of their cars being manual, how much exposure could that possibly be?

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

A few months ago I decided to buy a new car. I've had BMWs on and off since the early 1980's, and drove a 2002 in high school, so BMW has always been my go-to. I went to the dealer, and didn't see a single car I wanted to drive - for the first time ever. Lots of turbo4's, and cars like the 320i and x1 that are quite a departure from performance machines. I went to the Mini dealer, and was told that the new Mini engine is a BMW 4 cyl (albeit different intake or something). The mini was much more fun, but the suspension was lacking. Of the two, I'd buy the mini.

But I bought a Porsche instead - if you like what BMW used to be, try the Porsche.

I did not drive those older BMWs before but I agree that there are NO non-M BMWs on sale today that are entertaining to drive any more.....they are just appliances now.

Porsche? naaaaah....no practicality unless you get into the bloated SUVs...no thanks.

Plenty of good M cars around new and used. Many of us have families, stuff to carry, jobs to get to....and M cars are perfect to do it in.

Am really looking forward to Alfa Romeo's full return to the US market....since BMW pretty much suck in the non-M market there is a big gap of nice simple sport luxury family cars that are fun to drive.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Z3URP13T

How come there are so many threads created on a bimmer forum by people that glorify their Porsches and how these cars are better than any BMW car? Especially the threads where people compare a 200.000 euro GT3 with a 75.000 euro sports sedan...

because a lot of long term bmw owners are moving to porsche.

bmw use to make people feel exclusive but now it's targeted toward the masses (2-3 millions sales a year).

porsche is still exclusive "feeling" (200-300k sales a year) but that will change over the next 15 years. note macan, cayman, and boxter sales.

after porsche is watered down it'll be masarati, alfa romeo or something. haha

edit: i did not see the post above this one until after i already replied to this

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Z3URP13T

How come there are so many threads created on a bimmer forum by people that glorify their Porsches and how these cars are better than any BMW car? Especially the threads where people compare a 200.000 euro GT3 with a 75.000 euro sports sedan...

in terms of SPORTS CARS, a Porsche is clearly a better sports car. A $80k Cayman is a much better sports car than an $80k M4.

but......you can carry kids in an M4. you can go shopping and actually buy something in an M4. you can easily use one every day for anything....whereas with a Cayman you are definitely limited in liveability....

i have driven lots of Porsches and i think they're great cars....but they never strike me as a "one car' solution. I love minimalism.....one car for everything.

[PoorLurker]

Do golf clubs fit in the frunk of a 911? Saw that the cargo space between an M4 and 911 was about 1 Cubic foot off different, 11 vs. 10

[RM7]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Do golf clubs fit in the frunk of a 911? Saw that the cargo space between an M4 and 911 was about 1 Cubic foot off different, 11 vs. 10

Does anything fit in the Porsche rear seats?

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Does anything fit in the Porsche rear seats?

Hart


Kevin Hart does...

She'd riding up front all the time though.

[cenix]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Do golf clubs fit in the frunk of a 911? Saw that the cargo space between an M4 and 911 was about 1 Cubic foot off different, 11 vs. 10

Every 911 I've seen pull up to the golf course, the clubs were inside the car, not in the frunk. Guess it doesn't matter...got a 911.

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by cenix

Every 911 I've seen pull up to the golf course, the clubs were inside the car, not in the frunk. Guess it doesn't matter...got a 911.

I remember seeing a guy put golf clubs in the back of his GT3, but they don't have seats so it wouldn't mess up any of the interior pieces with the drivers out of the bag.

Most of the people I see with 911s have a second car. Most of the people with 911s that I see without second cars have children who have flown the coop.

[IPO1]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

IMO, BMW has become a car for the masses, instead of an enthusiasts car.

You just described Porsche BTW. Car for the masses.

Macan to GT3RS...range for the masses. I mean come on, 21 versions of the 911 alone

But like any brand, BMW included, they have a RANGE of cars to appeal to all buyers and price points.

So yes BMW is for the 'masses' like Porsche, MB, Audi, etc.

If you want a 'non-masses' car you better turn your attention to Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Sorry - I wasn't clear, and that wasn't my point. BMW makes a great 4cyl, and a fantastic 6cyl. But the new turbo is being substituted for the 6, and the last time I looked had the stoplight shutoff that had to be defeated each time you started the car. The M trim package is needed to make the car any fun, the dct is not available any longer (at least on the 2 series), and more and more corner-cutting. IMO, BMW has become a car for the masses, instead of an enthusiasts car.

This doesn't make any sense, you can still get the I6, the 4 cylinder was better than the NA I6 it replaced, more power, more torque, flatter powerband and better mileage so I don't get why you're complaining that something is being replaced by an engine that's more efficient and powerful.

The start/stop feature can be turned off permanently but just turning the feature off, it turns it off and stays that way, even if you turn the car off and on again.

I think you're just whining for the sake of whining. The pre-LCI F3x's in non M trim were a bit dull I'll give you that but I had a 328i loaner that was LCI and I was actually impressed with how it handled. Steering was still meh though.