[mike@Vossen]

Pretty big news...glad to see the FRS stays alive!

http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...ion+toyota.htm

As part of the brand transition, beginning in August 2016, MY17 Scion vehicles will be rebadged as Toyotas. The FR-S sports car, iA sedan and iM 5-door hatchback will become part of the Toyota family. The tC sports coupe will have a final release series edition and end production in August 2016. The C-HR, which recently debuted at the L.A. Auto Show, will be a part of the Toyota line-up.

The service and repair process for Scion customers will be unaffected by this change as customers will continue to visit Toyota dealerships’ service departments.

[gtron]

what i'm about to say will not make a whole lot of sense but a toyota fr-s is better than a scion fr-s imo.

[pikkagtr]

They're both bad
Terribly under powered
The sense of balance and maneuverability is those garbage tires they come stock with
For 25$k a slightly used s2000 would blow that out of the water

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by gtron

what i'm about to say will not make a whole lot of sense but a toyota fr-s is better than a scion fr-s imo.

Make a lot more sense to call it the GT86 like the ROW now.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

They're both bad
Terribly under powered
The sense of balance and maneuverability is those garbage tires they come stock with
For 25$k a slightly used s2000 would blow that out of the water

The engine is a dud, but the chassis is actually pretty good, they pull over a g with decent tires. Steering is a little lacking though and I really wish they were a hatch, not a tiny trunk.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Make a lot more sense to call it the GT86 like the ROW now.

Agree. And similarly the iM should become the Auris or Corolla hatchback. I'm sure they'll eventually revert all the model names where there is overlap with Toyota names. At the very least, they'll kill the two-letter names in favor of something consistent with other Toyota US products.

[Fundguy1]

So Toyota finally figured out American kids don't like slow ugly boxy vans like Japanese kids do. They're real popular with grandmas though. Lol. So Toyota's failed bid to try to make the company hip is now over. They are discontinuing the Scion brand and labeling the cars Toyota. Wonder how much of a hit they're going to take winding all that out. Here's a clue Toyota. You haven't made a car with balls since the last supra turbo. Maybe bring out a new supra with cool electronics at an affordable price and maybe you'd be cool again? Price it against corvette. Then make a celica that can complete with say a mustang GT. Make it $30ks and a little brother to the supra, then make non turbo versions of each so a base celica starts in the low $20s. Now you have the image of the turbo supra in an affordable celica. Sales of the young crowd jump. They become new Toyota drivers. Etc.

But until they get something with balls, Toyota and Lexus for me are never going to be in my driveway.

[davis449]

It's no surprise to me that Scion's dead. It's not surprising that it took this long either. When you invest that much into an effort, you have to see it through a LONG way to failure. The only "hit" they're going to take here is the investments they've made thus far in dealerships and their infrastructure. The Scions are going to be re-badged as Toyota models, so no production hits other than the costs to put Toyota badges where Scion badges used to be. All 22 of the people who run it at the corp. level are going to move into positions within Toyota and things will move forward. I see your rant about how they should produce this and that...and I wish the same thing, but it doesn't matter. The fact is that the current crop of low end Toyotas actually ended up capturing that demographic they were after with Scion in the first place. So the company, and I have to agree with them, accomplished their initial goal anyway. Scion also gave them an opportunity to explore other sales tactics and packaging that they couldn't just simply experiment with under their cash cow brand. So, if anything, they got a lesson they could more than afford from it.

[gtron]

no offense but this was posted yesterday as "Scion Brand to Transition To Toyota" is only maybe two or three posts down from this one.

[Never_Enough]

No turbo no care

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

So Toyota finally figured out American kids don't like slow ugly boxy vans like Japanese kids do. They're real popular with grandmas though. Lol. So Toyota's failed bid to try to make the company hip is now over. They are discontinuing the Scion brand and labeling the cars Toyota. Wonder how much of a hit they're going to take winding all that out. Here's a clue Toyota. You haven't made a car with balls since the last supra turbo. Maybe bring out a new supra with cool electronics at an affordable price and maybe you'd be cool again? Price it against corvette. Then make a celica that can complete with say a mustang GT. Make it $30ks and a little brother to the supra, then make non turbo versions of each so a base celica starts in the low $20s. Now you have the image of the turbo supra in an affordable celica. Sales of the young crowd jump. They become new Toyota drivers. Etc.

But until they get something with balls, Toyota and Lexus for me are never going to be in my driveway.

People like us aren't what they're going after. They're going after the person who drives 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane and talks on their phone because they aren't smart enough to know how to connect it to bluetooth, or probably what bluetooth even is.

The fact that the Scion brand is going away probably depresses a few septuagenarians out there.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

They're both bad
Terribly under powered
The sense of balance and maneuverability is those garbage tires they come stock with
For 25$k a slightly used s2000 would blow that out of the water

+1. Scion is grandma car. More seniors drive them than kids cause they can get a Toyota car cheap. There's no performance. Styling is ugly. Fail.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by gtron

no offense but this was posted yesterday as "Scion Brand to Transition To Toyota" is only maybe two or three posts down from this one.

The difference is mine is a die already Toyota hater thread.

[Bucki14]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

People like us aren't what they're going after. They're going after the person who drives 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane and talks on their phone because they aren't smart enough to know how to connect it to bluetooth, or probably what bluetooth even is.

The fact that the Scion brand is going away probably depresses a few septuagenarians out there.

Cried sweet tears of joy this morning thanks to you! Thank you sir for starting my day off with a good laugh

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

People like us aren't what they're going after. They're going after the person who drives 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane and talks on their phone because they aren't smart enough to know how to connect it to bluetooth, or probably what bluetooth even is.

The fact that the Scion brand is going away probably depresses a few septuagenarians out there.

Spot on. Toyota did their market research based on Japanese youth, not US youth. The colors, styling, lack of power, made them boring snd uncool for years for their target market. The tech was cool but other cars have the same tech now standard so it wasn't enough to define the brand. At least Nissan gave up after a couple years and buried the cube next to the Pontiac Aztec. The Scion has been walking dead for years. Just didnt know it.

[FriskyDingo]

Several things of note here.


First off, the first generation of Scions- tC, xB, xA- were indeed popular with the youth, especially the tC and xB. The xB, in particular, had a huge cult following and still does to this day. It was, however, also very well received by older people for their incredible packaging, fuel efficiency, and low price.


The Scion brand dying is really a shame. And it's a shame because of what it could have been. Toyota had an opportunity here to throw whatever crazy car they wanted on the market, and if flopped, shrug their shoulders and say, "Who cares?!?" And they totally squandered it. Instead of being an outlet for goofy, risky, out-there automotive ideas, they became just another brand under the Toyota umbrella that was ruled by bean counters and conservative thought.


The problem with Scion was that they were afraid of their own success. When they came out with the xB and it proved to be wildly successful, they started overthinking things. They started applying their Toyota mentality to the Scion brand. They became worried about sales numbers and the success of their models, and that led to safe calls with mediocre vehicles that didn't break any new grounds on the design, packaging, value, etc fronts. They basically just started making vehicles that could have been Toyotas.


Which leads us to today. For the last several years, having the Scion brand was a waste. You had no vehicles that were unorthodox or unconventional in the lineup, which was what the brand was for in the first place. And all the vehicles they did have would have been better served as Toyotas. Instead, it just limited the sales and exposure of those vehicles, and at least in the case of FR-S, prevented an improvement of Toyota's image. The death of Scion happened as soon as the second generation wave of products arrived.


I own a 2005 Scion xB, and people can talk trash about it and the brand all they want, but it is a brilliant little car. Unapologetically functional, efficient, well-built, affordable, reliable, unconventional in style. It was so square (pun intended) it was cool. It is such an obviously un-American car. It actually has good torque for city driving, it rides fairly well, it gets almost 30mpg in town, it has good steering, it is impossibly roomy inside, it does awesome in snow, and the thing will last to 400,000 miles with just basic maintenance. And the crazy thing is, after 11 years and 130,00 miles, it's still worth almost half of it's original MSRP. I'll never get rid of the thing, I love it.


Ultimately, the writing was on the wall for this brand a long time ago. Just one more casualty in the name of homogeneous autodom.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

Several things of note here.


First off, the first generation of Scions- tC, xB, xA- were indeed popular with the youth, especially the tC and xB. The xB, in particular, had a huge cult following and still does to this day. It was, however, also very well received by older people for their incredible packaging, fuel efficiency, and low price.


The Scion brand dying is really a shame. And it's a shame because of what it could have been. Toyota had an opportunity here to throw whatever crazy car they wanted on the market, and if flopped, shrug their shoulders and say, "Who cares?!?" And they totally squandered it. Instead of being an outlet for goofy, risky, out-there automotive ideas, they became just another brand under the Toyota umbrella that was ruled by bean counters and conservative thought.


The problem with Scion was that they were afraid of their own success. When they came out with the xB and it proved to be wildly successful, they started overthinking things. They started applying their Toyota mentality to the Scion brand. They became worried about sales numbers and the success of their models, and that led to safe calls with mediocre vehicles that didn't break any new grounds on the design, packaging, value, etc fronts. They basically just started making vehicles that could have been Toyotas.


Which leads us to today. For the last several years, having the Scion brand was a waste. You had no vehicles that were unorthodox or unconventional in the lineup, which was what the brand was for in the first place. And all the vehicles they did have would have been better served as Toyotas. Instead, it just limited the sales and exposure of those vehicles, and at least in the case of FR-S, prevented an improvement of Toyota's image. The death of Scion happened as soon as the second generation wave of products arrived.


I own a 2005 Scion xB, and people can talk trash about it and the brand all they want, but it is a brilliant little car. Unapologetically functional, efficient, well-built, affordable, reliable, unconventional in style. It was so square (pun intended) it was cool. It is such an obviously un-American car. It actually has good torque for city driving, it rides fairly well, it gets almost 30mpg in town, it has good steering, it is impossibly roomy inside, it does awesome in snow, and the thing will last to 400,000 miles with just basic maintenance. And the crazy thing is, after 11 years and 130,00 miles, it's still worth almost half of it's original MSRP. I'll never get rid of the thing, I love it.


Ultimately, the writing was on the wall for this brand a long time ago. Just one more casualty in the name of homogeneous autodom.

Well said!