[Bad Robot]

Self-driving cars are coming. Do you think they'll kill enthusiast car brands such as our M cars?

BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, Audi and all brands, and even Google, are working hard to develop self-driving cars. Google alone is literally more than one million miles down the road on this. Business Insider Intelligence said in a report last July there will be 10 million self-driving cars on the roads by 2020. And that's just the beginning.

So you thought waving bye-bye to manual trannies was a problem? How about losing the whole driving experience -- belting into a bulbous Google crap-box, napping or playing World of Warcraft on your phone as the car does all the work, buzzing along the Interstate, perfectly spaced out from all the other crap boxes, at a perfect 55 mph.

BMW, and all car companies, are in business to stay in business. They can't ignore the parade that's marching towards self-driving cars.

But won't that kill the enthusiast branding that BMW's been selling since the 1970's? And if it does kill the enthusiast branding, how will the hot rod German brands compete: "Try the 2023 BMW i2.20, now with 17-percent denser seat cushions and a more seamless iPhone interface than that Google crap box in the next lane." Exciting, huh?

Is this the last act of the Golden Age of performance cars? Will the M brand be dead within 10 years?

[Bluex]

You mean like.....



or

[woobiee]

I did a survey that BMW sent out a couple months ago on the subject and one question I found interesting was the potential use of autonomous technology to help aid/train drivers in track events, autoX, performance driving events, etc. I think they are suggesting the use of self-driving tech to show you the best driving line and then aid your performance as you hone in your skill on the track.

However, I personally want the freedom to drive and control my own vehicle as much as possible.

[Bad Robot]

No, more like... (kids, hide your eyes!)

[Bad Robot]

Originally Posted by woobiee

I did a survey that BMW sent out a couple months ago on the subject and one question I found interesting was the potential use of autonomous technology to help aid/train drivers in track events, autoX, performance driving events, etc. I think they are suggesting the use of self-driving tech to show you the best driving line and then aid your performance as you hone in your skill on the track.

However, I personally want the freedom to drive and control my own vehicle as much as possible.

I saw a TV piece a few months ago on an autonomous Audi RS7 (I think) lapping Sonoma Raceway, hitting every apex, turn-in, track-out and braking point perfectly. Might be on You Tube. Scary.

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by woobiee

However, I personally want the freedom to drive and control my own vehicle as much as possible.

And if I am going to go up in a fireball on the Interstate, I want it to be with my own hands on the wheel, not because my car decided to make it happen.

I kid, but kinda not really....lol.

I don't even trust it when my wife (or anyone else) drives for me. It's a control thing....Absolutely no way i'd go for a self-driving car.

[Bad Robot]

Maybe Dinan could make an upgraded ass****-class chip for those of us who aren't willing to suppress our inner nature in robot cars.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Bad Robot

No, more like... (kids, hide your eyes!)

Well it does have the ZCP wheels and Sakhir interior. But I think the Isetta look is so yesterday...

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Bad Robot

Self-driving cars are coming. Do you think they'll kill enthusiast car brands such as our M cars?

Sadly, I think so.

Hard to tell how quickly it'll happen, but it seems that's where we're headed. For those of you who don't have kids, watch Disney's WALL-E, scary close view of the future

What will be interesting to see is what will make the brand "premium" in the future. Will it be something like "we almost never crash due to software bug" or mostly interior luxury features, less road noise, tech features, AV systems....etc. They are all going to go the speed limit and accelerate fairly similar, "handling/performance" as we know will be irrelevant.

Lots of issue still to sort though, besides perfecting technology, there's issue of liability in cases of accidents. Will governments allow cars that aren't self driving on the road, mix of "drivers" and "self driving cars" can get quite messy. Can you simply take away the right from people that do want to drive their cars ?

Originally Posted by Bad Robot

Is this the last act of the Golden Age of performance cars?

Again, unfortunately, I think so, yes.

[2msport]

Self driving cars will kill off all cars. Only a matter of time.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Self driving cars will kill off all cars. Only a matter of time.

And when that happens ... I'll ride a motorcycle again 'cause ain't no one developing a self-operating version of one of those. Hell: they've only recently been able to make an automatic transmission work on one!

[Shazz]

If anyone thinks self driving cars is the way of the future, they probably drive some boring diesel taxi. I didn't buy the M3 as it has 4 wheels.

[SDH]

Personally I think they'll still be discussing the legal side of things regarding fully autonomous cars in 2020. Lots of talk of who's liable if one of these things crashed.

[RoundelObsession]

They will kill all "civilian" automobiles, not just M cars.

[Eliminator 429]

I think we have plenty of time to worry about this. I could see in the future people are required to get special license to drive a none autonomous.


I will take years before everyone including the lower class to be able to afford autonomous cars.

If It goes to all autonomous cars you can expect me to be the back in my day guy.

[tcpsoft]

There will always be the classic car group and performance car guys, so no, I don't think it will kill M or any performance brand.

Now, I do think that eventually most major highways may be autonomous-only (or one restricted lane for non-autonomous.)

I am 100% for an autonomous car for things like commuting, long trips.... the regular boring stuff. I'd love to do something other than cuss at other drivers for 2+ hours a day.

[Pig Farmer]

I hate the idea of self-driving cars, but it's inevitable. Living in South FL, I have notice a rapid increase in the elderly population over the last 10 years. There have always been old people in Florida, but improvements in healthcare are enabling people to live longer. This is a great thing, but living longer doesn't necessarily mean you should continue to drive well into your 80s, 90s or even older. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to take away their keys until they do something stupid (like drive into a building), or worse... hurt someone. I don't blame the elderly for wanting to continue to drive. Without transportation you are essentially a prisoner confined to your home. And those of us that are car enthusiast will likely bitch the loudest if someone tries to take our keys away sometime in the distant the future. That being said, the option of having a self-driving car could greatly improve the lives of the elderly and those that share the roads with them.

Ultimately I see "analog" cars will becoming like horses. The vast majority of people stopped using horses for transportation a hundred years ago. That doesn't mean that horses went extinct. Instead, horses have become somewhat of a luxury item. It is not uncommon for people to spend more on a horse than what you would pay for a GT3-RS or even a 918. I suspect that in the future, people will only drive cars on closed courses. Seeing a normal car on the road in the future will be like seeing a horse on one of today's highways. For this reason, I personally think that a well cared for performance car would make a good investment. There's always going to be some rich guy willing to pay top dollar for that special horse, even if there's a chance he gets bucked.

[pbjjj]

I don't think it will kill M cars. I can safely say that majority of M car buyers are the people who really do enjoy driving. The number of M cars built and sold probably will decrease as the number of people who only know autonomous cars increase, but there will always be people who just love driving.

Autonomous cars will kill off Toyota Camry and Corolla though as the majority of the buyers of those cars are the people who would prefer to be driven. I would say over 90% of the worst drivers I have seen on the roads drive a Camry. Camry should really just be 100% autonomous.

No offense to anyone who drives Camry.

[Bad Robot]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Well it does have the ZCP wheels and Sakhir interior. But I think the Isetta look is so yesterday...

That's it! The new throwback 2023 iSetta M, rockin' more than 24 DC volts of pure adrenalin go-power, 12-inch custom Club Car wheels* and carbon-fiber cup holders!

* 4th wheel optional

[Bad Robot]

Originally Posted by Pig Farmer

I hate the idea of self-driving cars, but it's inevitable. Living in South FL, I have notice a rapid increase in the elderly population over the last 10 years. There have always been old people in Florida, but improvements in healthcare are enabling people to live longer. This is a great thing, but living longer doesn't necessarily mean you should continue to drive well into your 80s, 90s or even older. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to take away their keys until they do something stupid (like drive into a building), or worse... hurt someone. I don't blame the elderly for wanting to continue to drive. Without transportation you are essentially a prisoner confined to your home. And those of us that are car enthusiast will likely bitch the loudest if someone tries to take our keys away sometime in the distant the future. That being said, the option of having a self-driving car could greatly improve the lives of the elderly and those that share the roads with them.

Ultimately I see "analog" cars will becoming like horses. The vast majority of people stopped using horses for transportation a hundred years ago. That doesn't mean that horses went extinct. Instead, horses have become somewhat of a luxury item. It is not uncommon for people to spend more on a horse than what you would pay for a GT3-RS or even a 918. I suspect that in the future, people will only drive cars on closed courses. Seeing a normal car on the road in the future will be like seeing a horse on one of today's highways. For this reason, I personally think that a well cared for performance car would make a good investment. There's always going to be some rich guy willing to pay top dollar for that special horse, even if there's a chance he gets bucked.

Good post, very insightful. I'm of a generation where obtaining my driver's license was the most liberating experience of my young life. Couldn't wait. I think I did it the day I turned 16.

But today, many of the 18-34 millennials don't want to own homes, marry or own cars. More than 30 percent of them still live with their parents. You can see how no aspiration of car ownership changes the car conversation from my generation's love for driving, to their generation's 'do it for me' attitude. After all they've been served and driven around by their parents their whole lives. The trend lines regarding driverless cars and urban, stacked living are in their favor. I feel sorry for them.

And that has to scare any manufacturer that's in the exceptional car business.

Good comments about the elderly in Florida. But I suppose there are many that would trade the independence of a car for the certainty that their robot car could get them anywhere they need to go long after they can no longer drive.

I get the horse analogy. As another poster said, the critical mass of this issue is probably 30 years away. The cost of owning and operating a vehicle will eventually make it impossible in urban and suburban areas, but it'll still be necessary out in the country.

So maybe the horse analogy holds up after all. People that own them enjoy going out in the country and riding them just for the hell of it. Come to think of it, that's kind of how I use my M4 too.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Self driving cars will kill off all cars. Only a matter of time.

I honestly don't think it will ever happen here. All self driving cars need to be able to see the road to work. Any area with heavy snow, and self driving cars can not work. Most of our cars at Acura now have a lot of features that will be required on self driving cars, like Lane Keep Assist, automatic braking etc etc etc. These features do not work when there is snow on the road, or snow build up on the windshield blocking the cameras.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Bad Robot

I saw a TV piece a few months ago on an autonomous Audi RS7 (I think) lapping Sonoma Raceway, hitting every apex, turn-in, track-out and braking point perfectly. Might be on You Tube. Scary.

And it was like 20 seconds slower than pro driver.