[inabis]

I've been debating a lot of changing my career. I have a Masters in Aerospace Engineering and have wanted to be either two things my entire life: an astronaut or a doctor. I knew that the chances of becoming an astronaut were slim but still I wanted to try. I've been drawn to space my entire life and currently work on Launch operations for the Delta program (yes I sit in the control room with a nerdy headset..so sue me ). Anyway, with NASA pretty much killing the astronaut program and the realization I would need at least 2 more doctorates to be considered I really don't feel it's worth it.

Astronauts get govt. pay according to their level which would be somewhere between 40K-82K. Even then, I'd have to be part of the program for 5 years without a guarantee of going to space, little time for a personal life during training, and with about 4000 people applying for roughly 20 jobs over 2 years it's a little disheartening. Don't get me wrong I'm still going to go for it and if selected I'd do it in a heart beat but I never thought what I would do if I got all the qualification and never made it. My job is cool but I can't see myself doing this for 40+ years.

So, I've been debating about becoming a doctor. I primarily didn't want to be a doctor because I didn't want to end up a stereotypical Indian who's a doctor but ended up becoming an engineer...lol. I don't want to go through all the training to find out I don't like it so to those who are becoming or are doctors what is the best way to find this out? lol...I have no pre-requisites as I replaced all my bio classes with heavy math classes so I kinda have to start from square one. I'm debating about working while going to school but I have a feeling that it would take FOREVER. So what do you advise? I can't tell you why but I'm attracted to all these weird doctors shows on tv and literally eat while watching surgery (everything but childbirth....that shit is gross...crowning = ). Anyway I know just because I see it and like it on tv doesn't mean anything. I've been debating this for a while and just wanted a second opinion from those who have been through it. Thanks!

[BK]

Free bump -- there must be a few doctors here who can provide some insight about their general happiness and thoughts about someone going to med school a few years out of college/grad school. I thought hard about going to med school, probably around the same point in my life as you are now. I have lots of doctor friends, chatted with them about it. Decided against it, and I'm glad I did.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go to med school, just that it is a personal decision and you should find a vocation that motivates you. For me, I believe med school was more likely a way to avoid the real world for a longer time rather than a genuine thought that being a doctor would be personally or professionally more satisfying. Looking back on it now, I absolutely made the right choice. YMMV.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by BK

Free bump -- there must be a few doctors here who can provide some insight about their general happiness and thoughts about someone going to med school a few years out of college/grad school. I thought hard about going to med school, probably around the same point in my life as you are now. I have lots of doctor friends, chatted with them about it. Decided against it, and I'm glad I did.

Give this thread 5-6 hours, I think most doctors have to work during the day

I have a few friends in med school and I can't say I would ever want to do it either. Not being able to practice for an extra 8+ years and then having to work more than you probably want to just doesn't justify the means to a lot of people.

[TurboFan]

Have you thought about what kind of medicine interests you, or why you would even want to do it? I uh....know a few physicians....why on God's green earth would you want to do this now??

From the sounds of your education (I have my BS in Mech Eng), you have 2 years of undergrad ahead, where you'll be in organic chem, bio, etc. Then you'll need to take the MCAT. Have fun with that. You'll do well I'm sure (most engineers do), but it's a PITA.

You're then looking at 4 years of med school. Again it's nothing compared to engineering school (it's hard work, don't get me wrong, but not nearly as demanding). It's mostly memorization, so if that's your thing, you'll probably like it.

After med school, you'll be looking at 3-7 years of residency. 3 years will get you through family practice, internal medicine, a community ER program, maybe a couple others. Most specialties will run you 4 years of residency, with the surgical specialties taking 5-7 years. So, if you are 30 now, you'll be done in 9 to 13 years.

When you think about specialties, consider that family practice and most internal medicine practices don't make crap. In my area they're pulling $80k to $120k. Hardly good money, considering you'll have $175k+ in med school debt and forgone 9 years of earnings. If you really like physics, you might enjoy radiology. That's a much better payback, but still a tough sell, depending on your age and lifestyle.

If you like dealing with patients and helping people one on one, those specialties pay the worst. The best pay is in radiology, anesthesiology, surgical specialties, but you won't be providing ongoing care to your patients.

[DesiGUY]

Medicine is a awesome profession... If you like it, just do it.

"So, I've been debating about becoming a doctor. I primarily didn't want to be a doctor because I didn't want to end up a stereotypical Indian who's a doctor but ended up becoming an engineer...lol."

Well, u dint go too far... ended up becoming an engineer.

[e92phreak]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

Have you thought about what kind of medicine interests you, or why you would even want to do it? I uh....know a few physicians....why on God's green earth would you want to do this now??

From the sounds of your education (I have my BS in Mech Eng), you have 2 years of undergrad ahead, where you'll be in organic chem, bio, etc. Then you'll need to take the MCAT. Have fun with that. You'll do well I'm sure (most engineers do), but it's a PITA.

You're then looking at 4 years of med school. Again it's nothing compared to engineering school (it's hard work, don't get me wrong, but not nearly as demanding). It's mostly memorization, so if that's your thing, you'll probably like it.

After med school, you'll be looking at 3-7 years of residency. 3 years will get you through family practice, internal medicine, a community ER program, maybe a couple others. Most specialties will run you 4 years of residency, with the surgical specialties taking 5-7 years. So, if you are 30 now, you'll be done in 9 to 13 years.

When you think about specialties, consider that family practice and most internal medicine practices don't make crap. In my area they're pulling $80k to $120k. Hardly good money, considering you'll have $175k+ in med school debt and forgone 9 years of earnings. If you really like physics, you might enjoy radiology. That's a much better payback, but still a tough sell, depending on your age and lifestyle.

If you like dealing with patients and helping people one on one, those specialties pay the worst. The best pay is in radiology, anesthesiology, surgical specialties, but you won't be providing ongoing care to your patients.

After working some years as an X-Ray tech, my buddy went another year to school for Nuclear Medicine. As a nuclear med tech, he is pulling down around 120k in the SoCal area (some of it being overtime).

Not bad!

[nissan]

Any interest in finance? It's probs. not that big a stretch to get into that if $ is your secondary motivation -- many firms hire those w/excellent quant/math skills and pay them great $$.

While med school prbs wouldn't be that hard for you, that's a lot of time and debt to take on. My ex was an aero engr @ RPI and, yeh, dropped out of the program after 3 semesters...gotta be hella smart and dedicated to make it thru that program!

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by e92phreak

After working some years as an X-Ray tech, my buddy went another year to school for Nuclear Medicine. As a nuclear med tech, he is pulling down around 120k in the SoCal area (some of it being overtime).

Not bad!

I would agree, especially considerig his investment of 1 more year. But $120k in socal isn't as much as it seems! It's a wee bit expensive down thar.

But your average doc is going to have over $150k in loans at 6% apr (more likely to be over $200k), and will not earn any income for 4 years of med school, then makes about $40k during residency. For a professional pulling $150k+ now, tha would make absolutely no sense, considering lost income, likely raises and bonuses, and a hell of a lot of debt burden.

[BMW F22]

Only go into the medical field if you're interested and think you will be happy with it. Otherwise, you're only going to end up hating it. Dont do anything just for the money.

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by Kenny@JleviSW

Only go into the medical field if you're interested and think you will be happy with it. Otherwise, you're only going to end up hating it. Dont do anything just for the money.

Agreed. If you're in it for the money, you'll end up hating it or quitting mid stream. I know too many people that went in for the dough, racked up $150-$300k in med school debt, and absolutely hate their jobs now. They can't quit, they need the money to support their debt and lifestyle, but they are miserable.

[Ninjaneer]

Funny, I was just having this conversation with my mom last night. I loved biology and becoming a doctor was something I probably could've pulled off. My mom makes the comment that I'm pretty focused and good at memorizing so I would've made a good doctor. Apart from that I genuinely find it all interesting, but I knew what I was going to be right before I got to college: a Comp Eng. / Sci. major. Bio / Med School was my 2nd choice.

It's what I found more interesting. Regarding the Indian thing, even in my culture it's pretty stereotypical: doctor, engineer, or lawyer lol plz, I hate that attitude. The way I see it engineers enhance tools and bring value to other disciplines.

Have you considered perhaps getting a masters in Bio-engineering or something where your engineering skills can be specialized to a medical related field? That might be rewarding if you're more into the field than the $$$ alone.

The same thought has come to mind sometimes. Partially for $$$, and partially cos I like it, but another part of me thinks I'd miss being involved in software which is why I got involved to begin with. But as mentioned above, the debt and the years spent at this point returns me to my senses.

[schneid4323]

Lockhead martin? Boeing? Classified work? that could be a sweet use of your degree

[M3aHOLIC84]

I started off as a Respiratory Therapist to figure out what the medical field is like and then continued to be a Physicians Assistant. I personally like the work because I dont do the dirty work anymore, but be prepared for long hours at least 12 hours and being on call...but its not bad because you do get paid well for it...my advise would be to do some volunteer work for a month or so at a hospital and get a feel for it that way other than that you would just have to talk to people in the medical field and get their personal advise...if you have been thinking about it as one of your options for this long my guess is you will probably enjoy the work

[E(@M#]

recently accepted for m1 fall 08 FSU CoM c/o 12' ......hoping to specialize as a hematologist....difficult decision to make at that point in ones career.....the application process is exhausting and expensive......difficult, to say the least........it appears that you're looking at least two semesters to resolve prereqs........many schools are emphasizing ec's but gpa and mcat are still considered to be of the greatest value....i suggest you volunteer, shadow, and assume some sort of leadership position(i am hardly the vocal leader...flexible requirement...i mentored, tutored)....hardly the field if youre looking for a relatively hands-free pay-off......hours are difficult and frustrating

Originally Posted by TurboFan

Agreed. If you're in it for the money, you'll end up hating it or quitting mid stream. I know too many people that went in for the dough, racked up $150-$300k in med school debt, and absolutely hate their jobs now. They can't quit, they need the money to support their debt and lifestyle, but they are miserable.

good piece of advice

quote from anonymous...do what you love and the money will be icing on the cake... do what you hate and the money becomes the shackle that binds you to the thing you despise

[Dragonman4]

Originally Posted by Kenny@JleviSW

Only go into the medical field if you're interested and think you will be happy with it. Otherwise, you're only going to end up hating it. Dont do anything just for the money.

+1

As I'm nearing the end my 6 year Doctor of Pharmacy program this May, I'll be looking to go into med school in 1 year after my contract w/ CVS is over. You should really want to be a doctor to go for it. I'm on my last clinical rotation and I round with medical students, residents, fellows, and attendings all day long. Basically here's the breakdown, and Kev can add more light into the matter as he is currently is a PGY-1 or 1st year resident/Intern. The salary doesn't get anywhere close to being decent until you get to fellowship or attending position. Time-wise, you're looking at Med school which is usually about 4 years. There's an MD/PhD program which I'm aiming to pursue which is 6 years at John's Hopkins, but mostly if you want to do an MD/PhD, that's going to take you 7-8 years. After that comes residency, fellowship, further specialization, etc. On average, you're looking at about 10-11 years of schooling to finally be done with schooling and be an attending doctor. Granted once you pass your USMLEs, you'll be an MD/DO, which is when you start your residency, you're looking at going to work from 6am to 6pm, on call most days of the week, working on the weekends, basically you work harder than a lawyer that's just passed the BAR. The work load gradually decreases as you progress, but not by much I'd say. That and you must constantly keep learning and keeping up with new medical information, known as CE credits, which you must obtain a certain amount each year by attending learning seminars, conferences, etc. Even for me, I currently get up at 6am to goto the hospital, check on my patient list, get updated for rounds by 8:30. Rounds last until about 10:30 usually, unless we go do walking rounds which then can last until about noon. Then we break for lunch, and go back to see patients. The med students and residents order new labs, medications, I check for adverse events, dosing, toxicities, etc. By the time that's all done, it's about 4:30 and that's usually when I head home. For the residents, their signout begins at about 4:00 - 4:30 and can last until about 6 give or take half an hour.

I know thats a lot to read, but it essentially boils down to this. You have to want to be a doctor if you plan on pursuing going to med school. It's a long and hard road, and many will realize it's not worth it along the way. There's lots of factors involved as well. For example, John's Hopkins 2007-2008 Tuition for medical school is $36,500 a year, so x4 and you get $146,000. Now granted you may not have to take out loans, like the people that just graduated Pre-med, but it's still a pretty hefty chunk of change. My tuition for 6 years of PharmD school adds up to just under $200k. Thank god for scholarships and grants.

Also, looking back at E(@M#'s post, with residency and fellowships, you have to apply for them, they're not just given or assigned to you. You have to interview, basically apply for a job amongst thousands of other medical students.

BTW, most doctor's don't earn as much money as you think they do. Their starting salaries are fairly on par with PharmD salaries. Low to mid 100s. Hence the return does not really exceed the work required for many, which is why you have to enjoy what you do or want to make a difference to not want to kill yourself basically.

[inabis]

Originally Posted by schneid4323

Lockhead martin? Boeing? Classified work? that could be a sweet use of your degree

lool...I've worked for both LMCO and Boeing...trust me when I say it isn't what its cracked up to be...the work is OK but not what you'd expect

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by inabis

lool...I've worked for both LMCO and Boeing...trust me when I say it isn't what its cracked up to be...the work is OK but not what you'd expect

I bet China would pay you handsomely to go work over there. You would have a unique opportunity to be at the very forefront of a brand new space program.

[Keto]

Note: Actual MD.

Everything that has been said above is true. If you are doing it for the money -- stop now. Sure, some fields have good money, but you can make just as much money selling orthopedic specialty hardware and other medical devices. Some fields have great money, but they are all subspecialties or surgical specialties which means several years of training. If you want to print money and do less work, do a cosmetic specialty -- derm, plastics, or some sort of botox/wellness combo thing that requires little training. Cosmetic stuff is great -- cash business, no insurance hassles, little to no call. Be prepared for the derision/envy combo from your fellow physicians. Very few doctors of any type make "fuck you" money.

I do ER. It's a nice combo of good money and lifestyle (on average, some of the lowest hours per week full-time), but it is a pressure-cooker while you are there. If you can't deal with risk and make quick decisions, don't do it. You often don't get the whole answer in the ER, enough where the final diagnosis differs from your diagnosis up to 33% of the time. It is truly working without a net.


Tips:
#1: Go to your state school. Will save you $100k at a minimum. You can get into whatever residency you want from state school. Military help also cuts costs, and as a bonus, military doctors don't deal with nearly the same amount of bullshit regarding patient satisfaction, insurance, lawsuits and the like. They do get paid a bit less however.

#2: Memorization helps in the first two years tremendously and the second two somewhat, but the benchmarks start changing in the second two years and really change during residency. Of course, no one gives a shit about your residency scores/skills in anything. If your chosen specialty has an oral board exam you will definitely need other study skills than mass memorization. If you want to do primary care, remember this philosophy: "What do they call the person who graduates last in their class from medical school? Doctor."

#3: It's easier to be single, as the time demands are nuts. Female medical students and residents are somewhat lonely, too. Why? When they go to a bar and a guy asks them what they do, if they tell the truth, the guy leaves, generally out of intimidation. One female friend of mine regularly lies about what she does and if the guy gets annoying, she then tells the truth and he leaves.

#4: Whenever you get to med school, find some sort of activity with people outside of medicine. Living in the little med school cocoon is easy to do and will drive you nuts. This is especially important if you are away from friends and family at your school.

#5: If you've got alcohol or drug issues, solve them now, because med school will only make them worse. Highest rate of drug/alcohol abuse among the major professions.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by BK

Free bump -- there must be a few doctors here who can provide some insight about their general happiness and thoughts about someone going to med school a few years out of college/grad school. I thought hard about going to med school, probably around the same point in my life as you are now. I have lots of doctor friends, chatted with them about it. Decided against it, and I'm glad I did.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go to med school, just that it is a personal decision and you should find a vocation that motivates you. For me, I believe med school was more likely a way to avoid the real world for a longer time rather than a genuine thought that being a doctor would be personally or professionally more satisfying. Looking back on it now, I absolutely made the right choice. YMMV.

I hear that. My dad is a highly respected doctor in my country (Thailand), and my mom was one of the top nurses in the same hospital. Growing up, I loved to draw and was pretty good at it. But I was always told to become a doctor and to follow in my dad's path.

When I started college, I had no idea what to be..so to keep my parents happy I majored in Biology and decided to be Pre-Med. You wouldn't believe how many Pre-Meds were there..just because 'they heard that doctors make a lot of money'. As time goes on and classes get harder, Organic Chemistry, Embryology, etc. the numbers of students dropped. And this is just on the path for a bachelor!

To cut the story short, I agree with Kenny...to be a doctor or almost position in the medical field, you seriously need the passion for it because lives are at risk. I thought long and hard about my goals in life and realized that I don't have the same determination and interest as my dad. I changed my major to Environmental and Occupational Health as I'm not planning on being a doctor anymore. I'm still very interested in the world of science..but now more in primary care, not secondary care.

To the OP...I think you should pursue your dream if you really have a passion for it and it's not a fly by night idea or something like that. Best of luck, man.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by Keto

Note: Actual MD.

Everything that has been said above is true. If you are doing it for the money -- stop now. Sure, some fields have good money, but you can make just as much money selling orthopedic specialty hardware and other medical devices. Some fields have great money, but they are all subspecialties or surgical specialties which means several years of training. If you want to print money and do less work, do a cosmetic specialty -- derm, plastics, or some sort of botox/wellness combo thing that requires little training. Cosmetic stuff is great -- cash business, no insurance hassles, little to no call. Be prepared for the derision/envy combo from your fellow physicians. Very few doctors of any type make "fuck you" money.

I do ER. It's a nice combo of good money and lifestyle (on average, some of the lowest hours per week full-time), but it is a pressure-cooker while you are there. If you can't deal with risk and make quick decisions, don't do it. You often don't get the whole answer in the ER, enough where the final diagnosis differs from your diagnosis up to 33% of the time. It is truly working without a net.


Tips:
#1: Go to your state school. Will save you $100k at a minimum. You can get into whatever residency you want from state school. Military help also cuts costs, and as a bonus, military doctors don't deal with nearly the same amount of bullshit regarding patient satisfaction, insurance, lawsuits and the like. They do get paid a bit less however.

#2: Memorization helps in the first two years tremendously and the second two somewhat, but the benchmarks start changing in the second two years and really change during residency. Of course, no one gives a shit about your residency scores/skills in anything. If your chosen specialty has an oral board exam you will definitely need other study skills than mass memorization. If you want to do primary care, remember this philosophy: "What do they call the person who graduates last in their class from medical school? Doctor."

#3: It's easier to be single, as the time demands are nuts. Female medical students and residents are somewhat lonely, too. Why? When they go to a bar and a guy asks them what they do, if they tell the truth, the guy leaves, generally out of intimidation. One female friend of mine regularly lies about what she does and if the guy gets annoying, she then tells the truth and he leaves.

#4: Whenever you get to med school, find some sort of activity with people outside of medicine. Living in the little med school cocoon is easy to do and will drive you nuts. This is especially important if you are away from friends and family at your school.

#5: If you've got alcohol or drug issues, solve them now, because med school will only make them worse. Highest rate of drug/alcohol abuse among the major professions.

Just curious..how long did it take for you to accomplish everything? Starting from the first year of college.

[ATC330i]

My brother's a physician specializing in infectious diseases (internal medicine). He seems to be rather bitter. He's 32 years old and is just now applying for jobs (after finishing his fellowship). He says his starting pay will be approx. 120-130k and he is nearly 200k in debt. He says that he regrets his decision and would do something else if given the opportunity again. He also claims that his fellow MDs feel the same way. I make more than he will and only have a bs, which I think bugs him a bit.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by wj4

Just curious..how long did it take for you to accomplish everything? Starting from the first year of college.

College - 4
Med school - 4
Residency - 4

so 12 years.