[mikeokimster]

Been a long time lurker here with a multitude of Bmws:

08 6mt 328i coupe - sold
10 dct m3 supercharged - sold
17 dct m3 zcp - pending sale
16 dsg golf R JB1 - wife's car

Retiring the 17 m3 as we need more utility with growing our family in the near term plus 1 large dog and 1 medium dog. The golf is here to stay as it has great balance of performance all weather grip and basic utility for either the dogs or baby, but can't fit all 3 at once.

Which leads me to a debacle of finding the right suv. The suv type I have in mind is one that is semi sporty but comfortable while not being too mundane having coming from 2 higher power performance applications.

I have done some extensive testing but to be honest that has really led to more confusion than productivity with there being so much completion. Here is my breakdown of pros and cons of each candidate.

Where I need some help is anyone who has had extensive ownership of any of the cars and/or has followed a similar progression of cars.

Basic specs needed:
Timeline < 3 months
0-60 < 6sec
Skid pad > .85g
Semi sporty exhaust note
Non 4 cyl
No diesels
European only, no Mercedes Benz
Msrp 80k or less

1. 2018 Stevio q4 - out
Pros: raw performance, raw exhaust note, very engaging to drive, felt quicker than f80 zcp
Cons: questionable reliability, resale, rear cargo is small, lacking full leather appointments

2. 2017 lenvate S
Pros: good sounding exhaust note, good power delivery, leather interior is good
Cons: mmi appearance, limited seat support and bolstering, rear end appreance, questionable resale and reliability

3. 2016 macan s - out
Pros: good driving and handling while nimble
Cons: very small compromised rear seats and cargo room

4. 2016 cayenne gts
Pros: good nimble low speed turn in, air ride comfort, seat bolstering captain of the group,
Cons: exhaust was way too quiet, mid and too range speed can be increased, alacantara steering wheel was pitted and smothered to death

5. 2016 cayenne s ehybrid - pending drive
6. 2016 cayenne s - pending drive
7. 2015 cayenne turbo -pending drive
8. 2016 x5 - pending drive
9. 2018 x3 m40i
Pros: new and fresh design, snappy quick mmi, responsive and very sporty drive, good exhaust note, solid incentives
Cons: cabin just looks a bit cheap from more of a 40-50k can than a 65k car. Road noise, sacrificed comfort, x3m in horizon, lack of merino option, resale

10. 2018 sq5 sport pkg
Pros: air suspension with active rear diff is something else, good growl from speakers/engine, good cabin noise isolation, 3D BO sound system is one of the best for mid tier systems, interior feels semi luxurious matching price point.
Cons: could potentially feel bland after honeymoon stage, 2019 will come with black optics pkg and potentially massaging seats, limited incentives. Fake tips and the flat area behind where the taillights reside on when the tailgate goes up is such an eye sore

11. 2015 RR sport v8 supercharged -pending drive
12. 2018 RR velar p380 hse - pending drive

Soon to be released (opinions/prejudgment)
1. 2019 x4 m40i - more sporty than x3 m40, merino leather as optional, build spec 70k , concerns for resale

2. 2019 x5 m40i - interior is just eye pleasing and a new evolutionary step, base price is about the same as a x4 m40i wtf?, lots of std options, key question is if the driving dynamics is really back to the roots bmw.

3. 2019 sq5 sport with black optics - black optics and massaging seats? Hopefully?

4. 2019 cayenne base solid looking panamera interior. Price point of a low optioned base balloons quickly.

5. 2019 fpace svr
Pros: engine sound, performance
Cons: reliability, compromised rear cargo space, questionable reliability

[Darth One]

I think the word you mean to use is "debate", not "debacle". But I enjoyed it because this segment is such a debacle anyway.

The best vehicles to fit your basic specs are the Macan and the Stelvio. Yet you've already crossed them out. Why is that?

And that skid pad > .85 is an odd requirement and sounds totally irrelevant for your intended usage. If you are trying to say that you want a good handling suv, a raw skid pad number isn't going to be the definitive determinant of that

[CT335xi]

Get a x5 50i , sporty ,comfortable, nice exhaust tone, and most importantly it’s pretty fast for a heavy suv. GL with what ever you decide to get.

[The Wind Breezes]

The macan wins hands down, but any suv you can buy today will do .85G stock with the right tires.

[Vanmarsenille]

Why no Mercedes Benz? I recently switched from a 2013 M3 to a 2018 Mercedes Benz GLS550; ok, it's over your budget, but it's a beast. 454bhp 4.7 bi-turbo V8. Yes, it's no sports car, but it's very fast and has acres of space.

[2000cs]

My wife just went from a 2016 X3 3.0i to a 2018 Volvo XC60. Considered and rejected the X3 M40i. I think partly because she wanted something different and her choice (not mine). But she really likes the Volvo and I doubt if she would go back. She has used it on long drives and around town.

[PLF69]

I find X5 with the V8TT should pretty close to what your looking for..

[arkie6]

Have you considered the Jaguar F-Pace? I have a friend at work with the 3.0 supercharged V6 model and he loves it.

[dgoldenz]

2011-2014 Cayenne Turbo. 2013-2014 cayenne GTS. Those are your winners. 13-14 GTS is N/A engine, 2016 version is 6cyl turbo. All Turbo models have full leather interior too. KNOW YOUR OPTIONS. You want PDCC/PTV. Those are included in the sport package on the turbo, very hard to find on GTS.

A high optioned turbo will have MSRP $130-160k. A high optioned GTS will have MSRP $110-125k. Both have about the same resale/used value. I had a 2012 turbo with $156k MSRP crazy optioned out, I loved that thing until some idiot decided to turn left in front of me last week without looking.

[mikeokimster]

Originally Posted by Darth One

I think the word you mean to use is "debate", not "debacle". But I enjoyed it because this segment is such a debacle anyway.

The best vehicles to fit your basic specs are the Macan and the Stelvio. Yet you've already crossed them out. Why is that?

And that skid pad > .85 is an odd requirement and sounds totally irrelevant for your intended usage. If you are trying to say that you want a good handling suv, a raw skid pad number isn't going to be the definitive determinant of that

Hahahah so true! Macan and stevio do handle the best and feel most connected. The issue I had with those two were more with the limited secondary seating(esp macan) and rear cargo room do to the aggressively sloped rear hatches.

The skid pad number was more or less arbitrarily added more to limit suvs prone to heavier amounts of body roll aka rx350 style turning dynamics.

Originally Posted by CT335xi

Get a x5 50i , sporty ,comfortable, nice exhaust tone, and most importantly it's pretty fast for a heavy suv. GL with what ever you decide to get.

X5 50i was a candidate early on until I have heard that those are also prone to rod bearing failures and lack the mechanical robustness of the n55 counterpart.

The biggest gripes I have with the x5 is that without Napa or merino options the interior grade feels like a previous gen x3. Bmw did such a great job with the evolution of the g series x5 that I know for sure that I will be in a mental struggle to want to upgrade quickly.

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

The macan wins hands down, but any suv you can buy today will do .85G stock with the right tires.

Very true!

Originally Posted by Vanmarsenille

Why no Mercedes Benz? I recently switched from a 2013 M3 to a 2018 Mercedes Benz GLS550; ok, it's over your budget, but it's a beast. 454bhp 4.7 bi-turbo V8. Yes, it's no sports car, but it's very fast and has acres of space.

Good point! The reason for omitting MB is the interiors. The glc would be closest based on wanting something closer to a compact/midsize but the command mmi system is so convoluted (drank too much bmw coolaid :/).

The gls550 sounds like a total beast! Good to see there is hope after the e9x m3

Originally Posted by 2000cs

My wife just went from a 2016 X3 3.0i to a 2018 Volvo XC60. Considered and rejected the X3 M40i. I think partly because she wanted something different and her choice (not mine). But she really likes the Volvo and I doubt if she would go back. She has used it on long drives and around town.

The new Volvo design language is spot on. The lighting designs and the cabin interiors are very nice places to be in. I could see why the x3 was rejected. I too felt that the new x3 had that typical bmw esq interior. Driver focused simplified interior at the compromise of something more unique and elegant.

I just wish they had some v6t offerings :/

Originally Posted by PLF69

I find X5 with the V8TT should pretty close to what your looking for..

X5 v8tt would have been perfect had it been more of robust mechanical operation like a the x35. I would be 80% set on the 2019 x5 had the g series started a year ago. Allocations and deals are most likely little to none with the evolutionary change and the back to the roots methodology luring in customers.

Originally Posted by arkie6

Have you considered the Jaguar F-Pace? I have a friend at work with the 3.0 supercharged V6 model and he loves it.

When I went to land rover they happened to have a fpace a few cars down from the velar. I think it was my mistake to so in the velar first and the dual screen interface was quite impressive.

Once moving over to the fpace I was supposed at how much plastic was used in the cabin and the leather material a step back reminding me of the previous gen x3. I unfortunately didn't get to a pint where I felt like this could warrant a test drive due to my perceived interior shortcomings.

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

2011-2014 Cayenne Turbo. 2013-2014 cayenne GTS. Those are your winners. 13-14 GTS is N/A engine, 2016 version is 6cyl turbo. All Turbo models have full leather interior too. KNOW YOUR OPTIONS. You want PDCC/PTV. Those are included in the sport package on the turbo, very hard to find on GTS.

A high optioned turbo will have MSRP $130-160k. A high optioned GTS will have MSRP $110-125k. Both have about the same resale/used value. I had a 2012 turbo with $156k MSRP crazy optioned out, I loved that thing until some idiot decided to turn left in front of me last week without looking.

I think this is the golden beans of delight. After the long debate of cars. My wife and I decided to look at the cayenne interiors again. We both agree a 15/16 cpo would be great which reminded me of the gts test drive.

The 16 gts I drove didn't have pdcc nor ptv but the low speed turnin was quite impressive for the heft of the car. The car was shockingly too quiet and what was strange was the lack of tip end. Could potentially see an issue here with ease of highway passing that I have grown so used to.

Which brings me to the discovery of a cpo 15 turbo. I have yet to drive one but from the power perspective this may fill the void.

I really like the design language of the 958.2 with the semi modern tech it has(granted bmw with the latest idrive has eclipsed them for now).

Pdcc and ptv are so rare indeed. My search nationwide has resulted in no ctt and cgts with those features at the price point and cpo status I am looking for but I think that is fine based on how the gts cornered and turned in without those options assuming the turbo drives similarly in those conditions.

Sorry to hear about your cayenne turbo . I would be livid! What is next?

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by arkie6

Have you considered the Jaguar F-Pace? I have a friend at work with the 3.0 supercharged V6 model and he loves it.

It's too bad the interior is a Fisher Price special. Absolute deal killer if you ask me.

[Alfisti]

Sensible decision here is the Audi, honestly the idea of uber expensive hot rod SUV is a bit silly, they all drive like shite.

[Never_Enough]

Trackhawk.

[jlstyle]

Originally Posted by mikeokimster

Been a long time lurker here with a multitude of Bmws:

08 6mt 328i coupe - sold
10 dct m3 supercharged - sold
17 dct m3 zcp - pending sale
16 dsg golf R JB1 - wife's car

Retiring the 17 m3 as we need more utility with growing our family in the near term plus 1 large dog and 1 medium dog. The golf is here to stay as it has great balance of performance all weather grip and basic utility for either the dogs or baby, but can't fit all 3 at once.

Which leads me to a debacle of finding the right suv. The suv type I have in mind is one that is semi sporty but comfortable while not being too mundane having coming from 2 higher power performance applications.

I have done some extensive testing but to be honest that has really led to more confusion than productivity with there being so much completion. Here is my breakdown of pros and cons of each candidate.

Where I need some help is anyone who has had extensive ownership of any of the cars and/or has followed a similar progression of cars.

Basic specs needed:
Timeline < 3 months
0-60 < 6sec
Skid pad > .85g
Semi sporty exhaust note
Non 4 cyl
No diesels
European only, no Mercedes Benz
Msrp 80k or less

1. 2018 Stevio q4 - out
Pros: raw performance, raw exhaust note, very engaging to drive, felt quicker than f80 zcp
Cons: questionable reliability, resale, rear cargo is small, lacking full leather appointments

2. 2017 lenvate S
Pros: good sounding exhaust note, good power delivery, leather interior is good
Cons: mmi appearance, limited seat support and bolstering, rear end appreance, questionable resale and reliability

Pretty stupid car if you ask me. Worst badge whore for my experience.

3. 2016 macan s - out
Pros: good driving and handling while nimble
Cons: very small compromised rear seats and cargo room

4. 2016 cayenne gts
Pros: good nimble low speed turn in, air ride comfort, seat bolstering captain of the group,
Cons: exhaust was way too quiet, mid and too range speed can be increased, alacantara steering wheel was pitted and smothered to death

I personally love this car but isn't the price the problem? Also dumb infotainment was a slight bummer.

5. 2016 cayenne s ehybrid - pending drive
This was a pretty fast car for me but seeing tach needle going to 0 at cruising was hard to swallow. Also lack of start sound was a turn off.
6. 2016 cayenne s - pending drive
Overall good but price isn't handsome.
7. 2015 cayenne turbo -pending drive
2015 cayenne is too ugly in rear.
8. 2016 x5 - pending drive
Overall the best bang for the buck. You can get it for 70% pricetag of your cayenne choices.
9. 2018 x3 m40i
Pros: new and fresh design, snappy quick mmi, responsive and very sporty drive, good exhaust note, solid incentives
Cons: cabin just looks a bit cheap from more of a 40-50k can than a 65k car. Road noise, sacrificed comfort, x3m in horizon, lack of merino option, resale
Like the look and all but not sure if I would pay that much money for it. Would rather spend more and step up.

10. 2018 sq5 sport pkg
Pros: air suspension with active rear diff is something else, good growl from speakers/engine, good cabin noise isolation, 3D BO sound system is one of the best for mid tier systems, interior feels semi luxurious matching price point.
Cons: could potentially feel bland after honeymoon stage, 2019 will come with black optics pkg and potentially massaging seats, limited incentives. Fake tips and the flat area behind where the taillights reside on when the tailgate goes up is such an eye sore

At this point, your selection is all over the place.

11. 2015 RR sport v8 supercharged -pending drive
Nice car but redesigned model is substantially more sexy looking
12. 2018 RR velar p380 hse - pending drive
Look that lasts only few months. Crampy interior, lack of driving dynamic.

Soon to be released (opinions/prejudgment)
1. 2019 x4 m40i - more sporty than x3 m40, merino leather as optional, build spec 70k , concerns for resale
Nasty shit.
2. 2019 x5 m40i - interior is just eye pleasing and a new evolutionary step, base price is about the same as a x4 m40i wtf?, lots of std options, key question is if the driving dynamics is really back to the roots bmw.
Should be an awesome car.
3. 2019 sq5 sport with black optics - black optics and massaging seats? Hopefully?
Not sure why you are cross shoppping Q5, Cayenne, X5 and RR.

4. 2019 cayenne base solid looking panamera interior. Price point of a low optioned base balloons quickly.

WOuld love to have this car. Happy they now offer HUD as well.

5. 2019 fpace svr
Pros: engine sound, performance
Cons: reliability, compromised rear cargo space, questionable reliability

Can't get over the fact this is built on sedan platform with huge internal hollow framing.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by mikeokimster

I think this is the golden beans of delight. After the long debate of cars. My wife and I decided to look at the cayenne interiors again. We both agree a 15/16 cpo would be great which reminded me of the gts test drive.

The 16 gts I drove didn't have pdcc nor ptv but the low speed turnin was quite impressive for the heft of the car. The car was shockingly too quiet and what was strange was the lack of tip end. Could potentially see an issue here with ease of highway passing that I have grown so used to.

Which brings me to the discovery of a cpo 15 turbo. I have yet to drive one but from the power perspective this may fill the void.

I really like the design language of the 958.2 with the semi modern tech it has(granted bmw with the latest idrive has eclipsed them for now).

Pdcc and ptv are so rare indeed. My search nationwide has resulted in no ctt and cgts with those features at the price point and cpo status I am looking for but I think that is fine based on how the gts cornered and turned in without those options assuming the turbo drives similarly in those conditions.

Sorry to hear about your cayenne turbo . I would be livid! What is next?

Turbos are a lot easier to find with PDCC than GTS, specifically the 11-14 models that had Sport package available (better steering wheel with the sport package too). The option code for sport package is PU5. I'm not that familiar with the 958.2 differences since I didn't see the value in paying so much more for a .2 than just buying a .1. Think it has apple car play, but I believe that can also be retrofitted in the 958.1 with some work.

The 958.1 CTT is incredibly comfortable (probably the most comfortable car I've ever driven) with the 18-way seats, full leather interior is standard, and if you know how to look up build sheets, you can find the more loaded ones and they are usually priced the same or close to the "stripper" ones. If you don't buy CPO, throw a tune on it and you have 580HP/600TQ, mine was pretty damn fast for a 5000 pound SUV.

You can get a CPO for models going back up to 8 years. I was looking at this one as a replacement for my wrecked CTT, great build and CPO with 49k miles, the dealer sent me the service work done to CPO and it's about $7k worth of work (new brakes, new rear tires, the expensive 40k service done, etc) - https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...lCode1=CAYENNE

If you want more noise, a 2013-2014 GTS with cat bypass will do it. I had an Akrapovic full exhaust on my CTT and it sounded great, but I know the CTT with standard exhaust is pretty quiet.

[mikeokimster]

Appreciate all the honest feedback.

Current interest have shifted somewhat:

2016 958.2 cayenne gts ~ 67k
2015 958.2 cayenne turbo ~ 65k
2015 x5 50i msport ~ 40k

Didn't realize how good of a value proposition the x5 50i msports are being as much as 25k less plus having cpo warranty

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by mikeokimster

Appreciate all the honest feedback.

Current interest have shifted somewhat:

2016 958.2 cayenne gts ~ 67k
2015 958.2 cayenne turbo ~ 65k
2015 x5 50i msport ~ 40k

Didn't realize how good of a value proposition the x5 50i msports are being as much as 25k less plus having cpo warranty

Well the X5 is probably an $80k car versus the GTS at $110-120k and the turbo at $125-150k depending on options. I'd take that 2012 CPO CTT that I posted above over that X5 without hesitation. In my experience with BMW, the X3 and X5 have ridiculously bad reliability and there is always something breaking that costs $1k+ to fix. I have owned two 911's and a CTT and have never had a single expensive repair, they are extremely well made. Is the only reason you are looking at .2 over .1 because of the warranty, or is there something else drawing you to the newer cars? My 2012 CTT felt like a brand new car even with 60k miles on it.

[mikeokimster]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Well the X5 is probably an $80k car versus the GTS at $110-120k and the turbo at $125-150k depending on options. I'd take that 2012 CPO CTT that I posted above over that X5 without hesitation. In my experience with BMW, the X3 and X5 have ridiculously bad reliability and there is always something breaking that costs $1k+ to fix. I have owned two 911's and a CTT and have never had a single expensive repair, they are extremely well made. Is the only reason you are looking at .2 over .1 because of the warranty, or is there something else drawing you to the newer cars? My 2012 CTT felt like a brand new car even with 60k miles on it.

The new body style is the main appealing point with the 958.2.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by mikeokimster

The new body style is the main appealing point with the 958.2.

Fair enough, the back end looks sweet with the exhaust built into the bumper. Not worth $15-20k to me personally but I don’t blame you. If going 958.1 the SportDesign body kit is a must. Standard on GTS but rare option on CTT since it costs $5600

[jlstyle]

Originally Posted by mikeokimster

Appreciate all the honest feedback.

Current interest have shifted somewhat:

2016 958.2 cayenne gts ~ 67k
2015 958.2 cayenne turbo ~ 65k
2015 x5 50i msport ~ 40k

Didn't realize how good of a value proposition the x5 50i msports are being as much as 25k less plus having cpo warranty

I love Cayennes, but can hardly justify their CPO prices. Driving dynamics were superb to X5 but tech was way too old school. No HUD, hideous navigation system, and other small stuff you get with cheaper BMWs. In the end, price didn't justify the benefit of driving dynamics considering it was a family SUV.
But with the new model, I'm totally willing to shell out extra $$$ for luxury, performance and the badge.

[Slugsy01]

My 2014 X5 has been superb, excellent HUD, top class navigation, great 360 camera and the bells and whistles apart from Apple CarPlay. I highly recommend it, been one of the best vehicles we have ever had.

We are keeping it as second, family car and I’m getting a family (ahem) M5 saloon.

[mikeokimster]

I definitely agree to all the comments. Thanks so much on the valued feedback.

I just saw the pricing guide for the g05 x5 m40i if the confusion isn't any worse... pricing won't be too far off the cpo cayenne gts/turbo depending on incentives and negotiations.