[mrfochon]

A slow conversion to electric. Chances are BMW will miss the market.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by mrfochon

A slow conversion to electric. Chances are BMW will miss the market.

BMW will be super late and will pay a very high price accordingly.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by eDrive

BMW will be super late and will pay a very high price accordingly.

Public charging infrastructure is super late to market so BMW isn't risking much. Most everyone residing in an apartment/condo, and/or using on-street parking can't realistically buy an EV. That may not seem like a big deal to someone in Utah or New Mexico, but I just described literally millions of car owners in the NY-Metro area alone.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Public charging infrastructure is super late to market so BMW isn't risking much. Most everyone residing in an apartment/condo, and/or using on-street parking can't realistically buy an EV. That may not seem like a big deal to someone in Utah or New Mexico, but I just described literally millions of car owners in the NY-Metro area alone.

I know people who charge in public and live in apartments that have no chargers.

While I commend them I personally wouldn't want to be subject to that kind of limitation.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by eDrive

I know people who charge in public and live in apartments that have no chargers.

While I commend them I personally wouldn't want to be subject to that kind of limitation.

That's essentially the problem with any other type of energy required to power our vehicles (aka, anything that's not gas/diesel). Think about how long it has taken for us to establish the network of locations to fill up all the way to shipping the fuel to places that need it.

It has taken decades to get there...any other approach (if ICE is legislated out of existence) would be much more palatable if we can somehow use some or most of that existing infrastructure. I would have figured the hydrogen or natural gas approaches would have been targeted for that exact reason. I just can't see the electric approach making much of a dent because of the limitations.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

That's essentially the problem with any other type of energy required to power our vehicles (aka, anything that's not gas/diesel). Think about how long it has taken for us to establish the network of locations to fill up all the way to shipping the fuel to places that need it.

It has taken decades to get there...any other approach (if ICE is legislated out of existence) would be much more palatable if we can somehow use some or most of that existing infrastructure. I would have figured the hydrogen or natural gas approaches would have been targeted for that exact reason. I just can't see the electric approach making much of a dent because of the limitations.

In Europe they're taking about installing a charger plug on every light post.

I think that's the easy solution.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by eDrive

In Europe they're taking about installing a charger plug on every light post.

I think that's the easy solution.

Ahhhhh gotcha - I didn't know that was even an option or possible, sounds like a good idea.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Ahhhhh gotcha - I didn't know that was even an option or possible, sounds like a good idea.

It's a uber great idea.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by eDrive

It's a uber great idea.

I am guessing there would have to be modification to the light poles, at least potentially - just in terms of having enough "juice" to charge a car.

Maybe they can figure out a way to add the electric charging into the parking meters. unless they plan to entice folks to make the switch by letting the power flow for free...

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I am guessing there would have to be modification to the light poles, at least potentially - just in terms of having enough "juice" to charge a car.

Maybe they can figure out a way to add the electric charging into the parking meters. unless they plan to entice folks to make the switch by letting the power flow for free...

It's might be only enough power for level 1 (220) charging.

In Canada they have power available in front of parking spots to plug the engine block in during winter.

A great idea for charging a car since the electric car doesn't need to be plug-in for any reason other than for charging.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Part of the answer is to modify building codes to require new construction projects include charging stations. This isn't a free solution as it raises the cost of projects but it is an option. The other challenge is the aesthetics of putting a charging station at every parking spot. Sounds really unattractive.

Still doesn't solve the on-street parking challenge either.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

That's essentially the problem with any other type of energy required to power our vehicles (aka, anything that's not gas/diesel). Think about how long it has taken for us to establish the network of locations to fill up all the way to shipping the fuel to places that need it.

It has taken decades to get there...any other approach (if ICE is legislated out of existence) would be much more palatable if we can somehow use some or most of that existing infrastructure. I would have figured the hydrogen or natural gas approaches would have been targeted for that exact reason. I just can't see the electric approach making much of a dent because of the limitations.

It didn't take decades to create the gasoline station/distribution infrastructure. In the US, crude oil basically was welled out of the middle of the country. In 1938 my mother as a young girl traveled across the US with her parents and two brothers in a 1932 Chevrolet from Washington DC to San Francisco. In 1952, my parents drove from DC to Miami on their honeymoon. All before the national interstate system was built and even barely thought of.
Of the great family stories they both told, gasoline availability was never brought up as an issue. The only time gasoline has been difficult to buy in the US was during the 1973 and 1978 oil embargos.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Part of the answer is to modify building codes to require new construction projects include charging stations. This isn't a free solution as it raises the cost of projects but it is an option. The other challenge is the aesthetics of putting a charging station at every parking spot. Sounds really unattractive.

Still doesn't solve the on-street parking challenge either.

I'd say they are already on the codes when LEED accreditation is sought after.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'd say they are already on the codes when LEED accreditation is sought after.

I'm envisioning an even more widespread requirement.

[Red Bread]

I've looked around, I don't appear to have a gas pump in my garage.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by eDrive

It's might be only enough power for level 1 (220) charging.

In Canada they have power available in front of parking spots to plug the engine block in during winter.

A great idea for charging a car since the electric car doesn't need to be plug-in for any reason other than for charging.

the block heater charging at parking spots isn't wide spread at all. Limited to a very few very cold locals.....Winnipeg comes to mind.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

the block heater charging at parking spots isn't wide spread at all. Limited to a very few very cold locals.....Winnipeg comes to mind.

That's is exactly where I was thinking about.

Still a great start without any effort.

[Grumpy Old Man]

A few years ago, when the Provincial government in Ontario started the push to EV's and began offering huge rebates, Toronto Hydro expressed concern saying that if 10% of the cars in Toronto were EV's it would cause brown outs and power interruption. Another challenge in Toronto and I expect many other older cities is lack of parking, so folks park on the street, often quite a distance from their home, blocks. Toronto also has this stupid by-law in residential neighbourhoods where the parking switches from one side of the street to the other every month.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It didn't take decades to create the gasoline station/distribution infrastructure. In the US, crude oil basically was welled out of the middle of the country. In 1938 my mother as a young girl traveled across the US with her parents and two brothers in a 1932 Chevrolet from Washington DC to San Francisco. In 1952, my parents drove from DC to Miami on their honeymoon. All before the national interstate system was built and even barely thought of.
Of the great family stories they both told, gasoline availability was never brought up as an issue. The only time gasoline has been difficult to buy in the US was during the 1973 and 1978 oil embargos.

Sure, there were options to get across the country - but those options weren't nearly as accessible as stations are now. The population is also many times larger...so taking us with this many people to the 1932 type of reality with another fuel source would be quite challenging...

My point is that if the replacement fuel for vehicles going forward isn't liquid based, which could theoretically take advantage of the current infrastructure in a meaningful way, I would expect a lot of growing pains so to speak.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Sure, there were options to get across the country - but those options weren't nearly as accessible as stations are now. The population is also many times larger...so taking us with this many people to the 1932 type of reality with another fuel source would be quite challenging...

My point is that if the replacement fuel for vehicles going forward isn't liquid based, which could theoretically take advantage of the current infrastructure in a meaningful way, I would expect a lot of growing pains so to speak.

Electricity is virtually everywhere in the US. Any household is essentially an EV filling station. I really don't understand what you are getting at. I think it is the replenishment speed of the technology is the issue, not the infrastructure part. Electricity as a transportable fuel has very low energy density as compared to gasoline and diesel. It is more efficient for sure in conversion to kenitic power, which is its advantage, but only in limited circumstances.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

Toronto also has this stupid by-law in residential neighbourhoods where the parking switches from one side of the street to the other every month.

This made me laugh because NYC's "alternate side of the street parking" laws switches the legal side of the street once or twice a week (depending on neighborhood)! I guess this shows how much more street cleaning is required in NYC as compared to Toronto.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

This made me laugh because NYC's "alternate side of the street parking" laws switches the legal side of the street once or twice a week (depending on neighborhood)! I guess this shows how much more street cleaning is required in NYC as compared to Toronto.

It's got nothing to do with street cleaning in Toronto, I think it's because the NIMBY's bitch about cars being parked in front of their houses all the time, so everybody gets a ribbon now.