[RelaxIN2]

Just a little back history of why I'm asking this question. Last year I entered my car in one of the local Car Shows in my area. Its pretty competitive and there were a lot of different classifications of car's. Classes such as (Stock, Stock-Modified, Custom, etc..) I have a 2003 SVT "Terminator" Cobra with 700 RWHP that is Heavily Modified, however, the majority of the car looks and appears stock. See some of the pictures below.

Anyway, when I drove up to register the car for the show, I classified the car as Stock-Modified, as I always do. The lady told me that my car does not fall under the stock modified category and that its classified as a Muscle Car. I politely disagreed with her and pointed out that the majority of the car falls under the stock and/or modified category. She replied back to me that, regardless of the modifications, a "Mustang and/or Cobra" is considered a Muscle Car. Anyway, not to further hold up the line, I took the card and went on my way to meet up with my buddies. I parked the car and went back up to the judges stand and asked a judge to come and look at my car to see what classification I should be in. Short and long, I had the card reissued back to the Stock Modified class and I went on my way.

So after all of that got worked out, me and my buddies sat around talking about the incident and what classifies a Muscle Car. Well, needless to say, that topic of conversation lasted the ENTIRE car show and then some. We even asked some of the patrons on what there perspective is of a Muscle Car... and here is some of the input of what people replied.

• Generation of cars (1955 thru 1969)
• American Made - Stock/Factory Only
• Top 3 Manufacturers Chevy, Ford, Mopar in the early 60's
• Big Block
• HorsePower Output (400 HP or higher)

Its funny because, its an innocent question that you would think that most people would agree on, yet, there are so many differences of opinions when asked the question.

For the record, I DO NOT consider or classify my car a Muscle Car, regardless if its a Mustang, or Cobra or because I'm making 700 RWHP or higher. By my definition, I consider a Muscle Car to be American Made, with high HP's straight from the factory (not modified), within a specific generation. Car's such as the Camaro RS/SS, or Yenko Camaro or Nova. The Chevelle SS LS6, Olds 442, or Shelby Cobra, or the Dodge Super Bee or Roadrunner.

So, What is a Muscle Car mean to you...??

[Tommy-G]

I wonder if you know my buddy Marcus Dixon.

Anyway, to me your car is mid school muscle. I know thats not really a thing but I would say a Muscle Car classification is 80's or earlier.

BTW-gorgeous ride

[CTinline-six]

To me a muscle car isn't necessarily about the year. I think a modern day Challenger Hellcat or Mustang would be as much of a muscle car as something from the 1960's-1970's.

When I think of a muscle car:

-American made
-High HP V8
-RWD with wider rear tires
-Sporty look (usually a coupe)


Nice Mustang by the way, always loved that generation.

[ToddBlack88]

To me, a “muscle car” has always been the specific generation of high HP American made 2 door coupes. 65-70. Mustang, Camero, stingray corvettes, GTO, Chargers, etc. You know, the fast in a straight line era.

[ryan stewart]

Fast in a straight line using a big engine and done cheaply* with no real mods being done for track/handling/luxury/etc (at least nothing on scale with the power increases).

No other criteria beyond that. There are muscle coupes, sedans and there were some awesome wagons like the Tempest 326 up to the Dodge Magnum SRT. New, old, etc, doesnt matter.

*obviously cheap is contextual. A Hellcat widebody at $70k isnt cheap, but its still $40k cheaper than the M5, etc for a lot more juice.

[RelaxIN2]

Hey guys..!! Thanks for the compliments on the car and feedback. One thing that I forgot to mention originally is... I'm sure your AGE and when you grew up also plays a factor in your response as well. Yeah, I dont know why, I just dont consider cars beyond say 1971 to current day "true" muscle cars. I dont know why I think that, maybe because of the "smog" controls that started to be put in place and the advent of electronics and ECU's driving a new generation. Not the "true" engine type of cars...

So would you consider a 1956 Ford F-150 with a none factory 351 Windsor a muscle car/truck...? or would it have to be the factory engine..?

[RM7]

Car that goes fast in a straight line

[RelaxIN2]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Car that goes fast in a straight line

So you would consider an import a Muscle car...?

[VisualEcho]

I get my idea of a "Muscle Car" from an 80's book I read. It basically laid out the classic "intent" of each type of car, and loosely defined them from there.

- Muscle Car - coupe - 2 or 4 seats - RWD - automatic - focused on drag racing
- Sports Car - conv or targa - 2 seats - RWD - manual - focused on handling
- Grand Touring car - coupe, targa or conv - 2 or 4 seats - any drivetrain - automatic - focused on being a balance between a Muscle Car and a Sports Car

Of course, these cars pretty much don't exist anymore, all the lines are blurred, but I still use these definitions for the "intent" of each car.

And you would have to add Race Car, Super Car, Hyper Car (among others) to these.

The Mustang above would be a GT Car by my standards.

[Torgus]

Nice Stang. What size blower is that?

Do you have a dyno sheet showing 700whp? Just curious what it looks like.

That lady does not know what she is/was talking about. That is not a muscle car.

[TheWatchGuy]

Muscle Car to me is a High performance American car (GM, Ford, Dodge, etc) with a v8 regardless of year. Camaro, Vette, Trans Am, Charger, Challenger, Mustang, etc. Something like a newer mustang with the turbod 4cyl, despite being able to have v8 level performance, wouldnt qualify.

The car shows i regularly enter in with my anniversary edition 94 trans am usually have it broken into 2 categories. Classic and modern. Classic is the 50s, 60s and 70s, Modern is 80s+. As we get further into the 2020s, there will probably be either a shift in classic years, or another category added for the 80s-2000s.

HP requirement doesnt really matter cause a stock 69 camaro SS with the big block was only mid 300s hp. Putting a HP requirement eliminates a lot of the classic muscle cars unless theyve been modified.

[mikado463]

Considering I got my drivers license at the height of the 'muscle car era' (1969) I guess that qualifies me to comment. Most will consider the GTO to have started the classic muscle car era yet there was plenty of 'muscle' back in the fifties as well(FI Chevys and Chrysler hemis) As for the Mustang, it was first and foremost a 'Pony car' and it in fact started that designation, followed by Camaro, Firebird, Cuda, Challenger, Javlin. All participants in the grand era of Trans Am racing. Modern muscle cars are now the Big Shelby's, ZL1 Camaro, Demon Hellcats, etc.

When asking someone of my generation to define the muscle car the answer is...... mid-size 2 dr coupe, big engine, posi-traction. The era to me began in the the early 60's with the '409' Chevy 'bubble top' and ended with the '70 Chevelle SS, LS-6, M22, 4.11 posi. All the manufacturers had their mark during this time period

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

Muscle Car to me is a High performance American car (GM, Ford, Dodge, etc) with a v8 regardless of year. Camaro, Vette, Trans Am, Charger, Challenger, Mustang, etc. Something like a newer mustang with the turbod 4cyl, despite being able to have v8 level performance, wouldnt qualify.

The car shows i regularly enter in with my anniversary edition 94 trans am usually have it broken into 2 categories. Classic and modern. Classic is the 50s, 60s and 70s, Modern is 80s+. As we get further into the 2020s, there will probably be either a shift in classic years, or another category added for the 80s-2000s.

HP requirement doesnt really matter cause a stock 69 camaro SS with the big block was only mid 300s hp. Putting a HP requirement eliminates a lot of the classic muscle cars unless theyve been modified.

you don't know your Chevys !! for the bad ass Camaro of '69 would have been the mighty ZL1, a hell of a lot more than 300 hp !!

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by mikado463

you don't know your Chevys !! for the bad ass Camaro of '69 would have been the mighty ZL1, a hell of a lot more than 300 hp !!

the SS had the 6.5L though, not the ZL1. Sure you could get the 7.0 in some models, but looking online, only around 1k of them were made in 1969. (1k of the L72 and 69 of the ZL1)

Another example is the 69 mustang. the boss was only rated at 375 with the 7.0L

Thats why HP, especially a limit of 400hp isnt a great cutoff point. you essentially cut out a majority of 60s/70s muscle cars

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

the SS had the 6.5L though, not the ZL1. Sure you could get the 7.0 in some models, but looking online, only around 1k of them were made in 1969. (1k of the L72 and 69 of the ZL1)

Another example is the 69 mustang. the boss was only rated at 375 with the 7.0L

Thats why HP, especially a limit of 400hp isnt a great cutoff point. you essentially cut out a majority of 60s/70s muscle cars

I agree with the 'cut off' point but regardless High Compression ended in '70 and to my generation so did the golden era of muscle cars

[RelaxIN2]

Hey guys.. just to be clear, there's no right or wrong answer and frankly, its a matter of opinion. We can agree to disagree in many areas I'm sure... I'm sure curious to hear what it means to other people.

Mikado... you made a pretty good comment about the "Modern day Muscle Cars"... and I agree with, but what is that separation...? Year, HP, etc....?

Maybe another way to look at it would be to classify different "generations of Muscle Cars".. similar to the Baby Boomers, Generation X, Millennials, etc.. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying to classify Muscle Cars into those "years"... but maybe some type of classification..

The funny thing is... 10 years from now when electric cars evolve further... will there be an Electric Muscle Car....LOL.. There's a collectors item for you...

IMO - Imports, Front wheel drive and electric cars will never be considered a muscle car to me...

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by RelaxIN2

Mikado... you made a pretty good comment about the "Modern day Muscle Cars"... and I agree with, but what is that separation...? Year, HP, etc....?

simple, the separation is generation dependent on the individual giving their opinion. My uncle (91) and I have this discussion a lot and his era with his '57 Belair, 283, 2 four barrels was the golden era.

I will tell you this, he makes one very valid point that is tough to dispute......there was much more 'open road' back in his day !

Maybe another way to look at it would be to classify different "generations of Muscle Cars".. similar to the Baby Boomers, Generation X, Millennials, etc.. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying to classify Muscle Cars into those "years"... but maybe some type of classification..

you could but never will the mid seventies to mid eighties be considered 'muscle'. I'm talking factory stock of course. Also of note, as the big blocks disappeared in the mid -seventies Pontiac held onto somewhat respectable #'s with their 455SD longer than anyone else

IMO - Imports, Front wheel drive and electric cars will never be considered a muscle car to me...

agreed but then again, I'm old .....

[RM7]

Originally Posted by RelaxIN2

So you would consider an import a Muscle car...?

Yep. But must be really fast. No 5k awd clutch drops when rolling 0-60 is bad.

[6oclockshadow]

V8,
Made in USA,
Coupe
The OG muscle cars: Mustang, Camaro, Challenger

[rwheels]

Originally Posted by RelaxIN2

Hey guys.. just to be clear, there's no right or wrong answer and frankly, its a matter of opinion. We can agree to disagree in many areas I'm sure... I'm sure curious to hear what it means to other people.

Mikado... you made a pretty good comment about the "Modern day Muscle Cars"... and I agree with, but what is that separation...? Year, HP, etc....?

Maybe another way to look at it would be to classify different "generations of Muscle Cars".. similar to the Baby Boomers, Generation X, Millennials, etc.. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying to classify Muscle Cars into those "years"... but maybe some type of classification..

The funny thing is... 10 years from now when electric cars evolve further... will there be an Electric Muscle Car....LOL.. There's a collectors item for you...

IMO - Imports, Front wheel drive and electric cars will never be considered a muscle car to me...

Have you ever ridden in an electric car? They are no joke.

[4Hockey4]

American V-8 sedan/coupe.

I had a 01 GT Stang vert., slightly modded with straight pipes etc. Dad had 2 90's Cobras, he's 80 now, so has a newer 6cyl Mustang Vert...probably a good thing.

[The Wind Breezes]

Muscle car means that two useful parts of the anatomy, one low and one high, are stunted in the owner causing an infatuation with mediocre cars configured undesirably.