[baege]

Given the direction newer cars are going, turbos, fewer manuals, heavier and bigger, I find myself considering older cars to feed my automotive ADD.

The r8 v10 gen 1 gated is a car I've been intrigued by for a while.
I've also always had a thing for e86s, my 2007 SI being the car I've owned the longest of any car.

So in the last couple years or so I've test driven a three R8 v10 gated coupes, and 2 e86 m's and one SI.

What I've noticed is that all they all felt a little "old" when I got back into my newish car (a 2020 BMW M2 comp). the R8's were 2 2012's one with 44000 km, one with 30000 km, and a 2014 with 30000 km. The e86's were all 2007's all with between 40000 and 60000 km. They all felt older in that the interiors showed wear and they all felt a little "loose" in terms of the way they drove. Some of them had particular issues (the 2014 R8 sounded kind of off, didn't have the epic throttle response that v10 normally has, the 2007 Si had strange throttle response and rode rough). But overall that they just all felt "old".

Growing up I always had older cars (anywhere from 5 to 10 years old), until my early 30's when I bought my first new car a 2003 350Z. Since that 350Z, all my cars have alll been brand new or at most 2 years old. I am starting to think I've become accustomed to the tightness and "newness" of newer cars and won't be happy with anything older.

This is starting to make me think I should just focus on newer cars, 3 years old at most, and give up on the search for an older car.

Curious if others have come to a similar realization.

[Alfisti]

THere are 2 angles here. One is as you say, size, weight and especially turbo charging is sucking the life out of newer cars. Interiors are definitely aging fast over the past 10 to 15 years because there has been a real focus there from manufacturers, even entry level ones. In saying that, I think a lot of modern interiors are going to age HORRIBLY because the screens are not integrated properly, one day they will figure this out and the awkward screen placement today will look shite. Everyone bags the alfa dash as looking old school, to me, properly optioned with leather, it looks fantastic as the screen is fully integrated.

Now to my 2nd point. Everytime I get in a new car it drives me fucking crazy. Beep, ring, WARNING, fucking beep, beep, WARNING ..... FUCK OFF> Just let me drive ffs. The car is SO intrusive, i loathe all these so called safety devices, other than reverse cameras they are all just absolute bollocks and add nothing but stress to me.

I also despise the throttle lag programmed into the transmissions, just awful.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Now to my 2nd point. Everytime I get in a new car it drives me fucking crazy. Beep, ring, WARNING, fucking beep, beep, WARNING ..... FUCK OFF> Just let me drive ffs. The car is SO intrusive, i loathe all these so called safety devices, other than reverse cameras they are all just absolute bollocks and add nothing but stress to me.

Another point, modern cars is increasing feel more and more isolated, I feel so far from the actual act of driving these days in even so called 'sports cars'. Everything feels artifical, a laptime done by a modern car today, I'd question whether it is the car doing it or myself.

Going back to your point, it feels like there's so few cars today that will let me have some fun without the electronic nanny telling you you cannot have fun. Is there even a 'common' (not specialist brands like Lotus) new car sold today that can defeat the traction control completely?

[..Rush..]

The Dealership loaned me a brand new BMW 2 Grand Coupe while I had my car serviced.
My car did feel old, but that was because it did not have the latest technology. I will give that to new cars. However, my old car did feel more in touch with the ground, and more in touch with the actual task of driving.

[heavyD^2]

For me it's tough as I really like new tech. I can appreciate an older interior that was well laid out and fully functional but it's hard to escape that you will be spending all your driving time in a dated environment that's missing features we have become accustomed to. I also feel older cars don't handle nearly as well as we remember and vehicles in the day we thought were fast are pretty slow by today's standards. Also unlike a lot of people here it seems I'm not a very nostalgic person and believe that newer is usually better in most cases. As a weekend car I think I could live with a truly special old car but not as a daily driver.

[martin mustang]

I opted to go for 640 grand coupe 6 series 2016, we recently upgrade our family car to the new X5 45e, nice interior but find the digital display dials and all the options in the i-drive a distraction from driving the straight 6 petrol engine backed up with the electric motor, hence when changing my F10 instead of going for the current 5 (driving 5 series since the e39) I decided to go for 640 F13 instead. so with you on this one modern cars simply to digital, disconnected from the engine and the mechanics feel!

[N8N]

I've always liked older cars. Only reason I bought an E92 was because I couldn't get financing on an E46 or E36 and prices were still high enough that I couldn't buy outright. That perspective has only grown, I STILL want an E46 more than any newer car even though it's now 10 years later. This is true not only for BMW but pretty much everyone else. Cars have become overly complex to the detriment of the driving experience, and you can't even get a manual transmission at all on most vehicles.

[tdott]

No sorry, new cars don't really do it for me. Plus I can think of better things to do with 80-100k+ these days.

Nothing else interest me....

[chassis]

@baege daily driver or garage queen?

For a DD I like the latest model, preferable a year after a minor facelift (not a new platform). It’s generally the most reliable model for that particular vehicle.

Direct injection, turbos, automatic transmission are what they are. For a DD there is nothing wrong with theses things, even for self-acclaimed enthusiasts. To wit: Cayenne Turbo, GLE63s, etc etc

My preference is for performance and comfort in the same package. Tech is what it is. At a given price point there isn’t much difference in tech.

[SoftShoe]

Love the power, efficiency, safety and comfort of new cars.

Hate the throttle lag and nannies nannies and more nannies, and the failure of the turn-off-nannies button to do that.

…What is the point of having a manual when the car rev matches for you and is slower and less efficient?

With electric we’ll get precision power and torque delivered individually to each wheel based on millions of factors per millisecond … and no shifting.

It’s possible that I’ll be buying my next daily based on how well it plans my route and makes a cup of coffee. And my next weekend car may be from the early 2000s.

[TheWatchGuy]

for a daily driver, newer car hands down. the amount of driving i do, and the amount of amenities now coming on newer cars makes the driving so much better.

For a fun weekend car, it depends. If I'm going to go balls out modifying it, slightly older cars (5-10 years) are better just cause there is so much aftermarket support and you still get some of the luxuries.

But if im not modifying it, its hard to pass up the performance of the newer cars. Its crazy to go back and look at some of the performance cars from the 90s and 2000s and compare their specs to new cars. Almost all the cars i wanted as a highschooler would need some work to get me to enjoy them.
for instance, a 94 supra turbo was a 320hp car with a 5+ 0-60 and mid 13s 1/4. My wifes new g70 sport is a 365hp car with a sub 5 0-60 and can crack into the 12s stock. I have a 94 25th anniversary trans am i never drive because of it. Low miles, worth significantly more than i paid, so i dont want to do any modifications, but at 275hp, my truck is faster and my wifes car is way more fun to drive

[baege]

Originally Posted by chassis

@baege daily driver or garage queen?

For a DD I like the latest model, preferable a year after a minor facelift (not a new platform). It’s generally the most reliable model for that particular vehicle.

Direct injection, turbos, automatic transmission are what they are. For a DD there is nothing wrong with theses things, even for self-acclaimed enthusiasts. To wit: Cayenne Turbo, GLE63s, etc etc

My preference is for performance and comfort in the same package. Tech is what it is. At a given price point there isn’t much difference in tech.

not really a daily driver as I don't commute but it's my only car so I use it for whatever. But even for a garage queen I tend to like the feel of a newer car, it seems the newness makes it more enjoyable for me.

I guess for me it's not about the tech it's about the crispness, tightness and how everything works proper in a new car.

if i could get a brand new e86 with that n52 in manual, I would take that over my M2 comp any day.

[Alfisti]

What tech are guys in so desperate need of? You've got maps on your phone, what in god's green earth could you otherwise need?

[Vivek.]

My 2013 e92 feels just as tight and new as anything I've driven/been in made after 2020. The average F30 or G20 has way more interior rattles. I found my boss's M2C to be nicer in some ways but the interior overall feels cheaper, styling is not as timeless and IMO won't age as well.

I feel the same way about the E38, 20 years later a clean 2001 740i/il/750il won't look out of place in any situation.

Also I mention this every time I can but my e34 535i in today's dollars stickers for 25% more than a 2021 540i; probably a combination of manufacturing efficiency and inferior materials

[Germanauto]

I feel like the late 00s were the sweet spot for auto enthusiasts. Cars were relatively driver-oriented and engaging to drive (e.g. hydraulic steering and straight 6 engines were the norm) while still having basic features like bluetooth audio and backup cameras. Cars were a lot more affordable too. Boxster/911, BMW M cars etc were more reasonably priced. Salaries in a lot of professions have not kept up with the pace of the price increases in these cars.

However it's not all doom and gloom. There are still some really great driver's cars being made today. Cars that are still relatively light, have amazing transmissions, objectively better handling than anything in past, etc. Cars that come to mind: BMW M2, G80 M3/4, G20, Alfa Romeos, everything from Porsche, Merc AMGs, etc.

What does sadden me is this massive push for electrification. I am fine with it for the majority of cars, but I fear ICE will be legislated out of existence even fore enthusiast-oriented cars. I think the demand for EVs will naturally grow over time, but I also think a lot of fellow Americans enjoy their ICE cars and demand will remain for a while. EVs will be faster and not have any lag that I'll give it to them, but some of us are willing to trade that 1-2 seconds of acceleration for all the wonderful attributes of ICE. I just wish we consumers could have choice instead of being forced to adopt a technology we don't want for our enthusiast cars.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

What tech are guys in so desperate need of? You've got maps on your phone, what in god's green earth could you otherwise need?

Ok, not to freak anyone out, but road maps used to be PRINTED on PAPER and they didn't TALK to you.

Lol.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

What tech are guys in so desperate need of? You've got maps on your phone, what in god's green earth could you otherwise need?

"You mean there was a time when cars didn't drive themselves??? But how would I be able to scroll pointlessly down facebook or the gram or watch some social media personality make some new dance moves that i am somehow suppose to like?"
"You mean there was a time when the car will not tell me I am on the white lines?"
"You mean there was a time when cars can't park themselves?? How would I be able to park..."
"You mean there was a time when cars won't stop if it sees cars ahead have stopped? what if I crash because I was staring at my phone"

Yep.. modern cars now just create a population that cannot drive, and automation means no one needs to learn how to drive anymore.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

What tech are guys in so desperate need of? You've got maps on your phone, what in god's green earth could you otherwise need?

If you have a passenger, using maps on your phone is fine but if you are by yourself kind of useless unless you are one of those drivers that's part of the problem on today's roads because you think you can still drive safely and use your phone at the same time.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by kyriian

Yep.. modern cars now just create a population that cannot drive, and automation means no one needs to learn how to drive anymore.

This post got me thinking of how silly we are for not seeing all this coming. With the advent of the iPhone and social media platforms back in the late 00s the writing was on the wall: the entire world, cars included, are going to be digital/software-driven. Batteries for phones are other gadgets have come down in price, society is dependent on software more than ever, and automation/outsourcing is more prevalent than ever before.

It was only a matter of time before cars would turn into smartphones with four wheels. This is [unfortunately] the natural evolution of technology.

The next big thing after electrification is gonna be AI. There's already a push for self-driving of course, but we will see AI for cabin functions and communication with other cars as well. Some cars like the upcoming Merc EQS are already headed in this direction.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

If you have a passenger, using maps on your phone is fine but if you are by yourself kind of useless unless you are one of those drivers that's part of the problem on today's roads because you think you can still drive safely and use your phone at the same time.

Nope. I use a phone holder, it cost $19 and works perfectly. So it's effectively just a screen. Point being, most newer cars have had a screen with maps for eons, what else do you need?

[NickyC]

Got rid of my G82 and got back into another F8x.

So at least for me no, even though the F8x could still be seen as a "newer" car relativity speaking.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Got rid of my G82 and got back into another F8x.

So at least for me no, even though the F8x could still be seen as a "newer" car relativity speaking.

Holy cow, already?!?!?!