[vladinecko]

i tried to go through all the ticket related threads but couldn't find answers to my questions so hopefully someone will enlighten me.

i went through red light as it changed from amber (i believe i already crossed the white line when it changed to red) at 11pm in a very empty area of where i live. as it happened, a cop was sitting right on the corner of that street and immediately gave me a ticket for $106.50.

my question, worst-case scenario, if i plead not guilty, the cop does show up and i loose and will be found guilty, will i have to pay anything above $106.50, the value of the ticket? in the same case, will it negatively affect anything else, like my driving record, insurance premium, some kind of unofficial "cop black list" or anything at all?

thanks in advance!

[gos]

Originally Posted by vladinecko

i tried to go through all the ticket related threads but couldn't find answers to my questions so hopefully someone will enlighten me.

i went through red light as it changed from amber (i believe i already crossed the white line when it changed to red) at 11pm in a very empty area of where i live. as it happened, a cop was sitting right on the corner of that street and immediately gave me a ticket for $106.50.

my question, worst-case scenario, if i plead not guilty, the cop does show up and i loose and will be found guilty, will i have to pay anything above $106.50, the value of the ticket? in the same case, will it negatively affect anything else, like my driving record, insurance premium, some kind of unofficial "cop black list" or anything at all?

thanks in advance!

Laws on this vary by state, you should look it up or speak to a lawyer.

Typically, however, pleading not guilty and being found guilty anyway means that you get exactly what's on the ticket. In some cases, pleading guilty (by mailing in your payment, for example) allows you to automatically get fewer points on your license. My 4-pt speeding ticket in Colorado last winter was automatically reduced to 2 because I "pled guilty" by mailing in my $70 payment within 3 weeks of the incident. My other choice was to go to court and fight it, or go to court and plead guilty/no-contest, which would have resulted in the same $70 fine but the full 4-point penalty.

I was obviously guilty, obviously speeding, and obviously stupid, so fighting it didn't make sense.

--gos

PS: Even if you entered while the light was amber, that may still be against the law if you made no attempt to stop and had plenty of time to do so. Also, he-said/she-said against a police officer rarely goes against the officer without some other form of proof. You yourself say you "believe" you were in before it went red, while the cop will say he's sure it was red before you entered.

PPS: the ticket usually has triplicate on the back detailing all of your options, you should read this.

[MoreCowbell]

Originally Posted by gos

Laws on this vary by state, you should look it up or speak to a lawyer.

Typically, however, pleading not guilty and being found guilty anyway means that you get exactly what's on the ticket. .

Exactly!!!

Sorry you got the ticket Vlad. That sucks.

[Matte90]

Wow... your tickets are freakin cheap. Running a red light in california would cost at least double that amount, if not more...

I think if you fight a ticket and lose, you just get a point on your record without an option to go to traffic school. 1 point on your driving record does not raise your insurance premium. (unless you have prior offenses and have multiple points already) I say fight it, but it's your word against the cop's and usually cops are always "right". You better wish he/she doesn't show up. Good Luck.

[ex-poster]

Originally Posted by vladinecko

in the same case, will it negatively affect anything else, like my driving record, insurance premium, some kind of unofficial "cop black list" or anything at all?

As previously mentioned, check your state. This is highly variable across states.

I'm not sure about the insurance. There was a time a while ago when you would get a questionaire from the insurance company asking you if you had any moving violations but I haven't seen anything like that in years. Dunno how the insurance company might find out.

As far as an any "cop black list" goes, well, just be aware that any and all stops of your vehicle are logged, as well as the final dispositions of those stops, whether it be an oral warning, written warning, ticket and if a ticket, how that worked out. These records could be on the state, county or even local level.

Let's say you're a really smooth talker and you're able to talk your way of of a ticket or two or maybe even three. The next cop to stop you will know as he runs your information that you've been pulled over quite a bit (and why) and can use that information to decide if you get a real ticket or another warning.

[txusa03]

I pay my tickets because it is just a hassle to go to court and wait in line. Better luck next time and good luck with the ticket.

[vladinecko]

thanks for all the replies. i would talk to a lawyer but they would probably charge me more for 10 minutes of talking to them than the value of the whole ticket. i'll need to figure something out.

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by txusa03

I pay my tickets because it is just a hassle to go to court and wait in line. Better luck next time and good luck with the ticket.

i understand what you're saying about just paying it off and going through no hassle, but i don't want this to show up on my record in points. so the fine would be ok with me as long as i knew for sure that was going to be it.

[E90Av8r]

I recently fought, and won a red light ticket. The officer did not show up so that definatley helped my case, however I was prepared before I went into court. First of all, if you show the judge that you tried to build a case and you have some decent reasons why you feel you were unjustly ticketed you most likely will not incurr any additional fines. I probaly spent way to much time on this, but I felt like it was worth it. The first thing I did was to obtain a recent copy of my driving record. The judge has this and it will affect the decision. Luckly mine was decent with 4 tickets in 13 years. Next look up the statute in your state and make sure that you are in the right before proceeding, otherwise you may want to plead no contest at this point. In FL it states that the vehicle must be beyond the crosswalk before turing red, nothing is stated about intent, however I'm sure an officer can argue that. I also obtained a copy of the in-car camera from the officers car. I was a big waste of time because it only shows from the time he began pursuit and it looks just like a really boring episode of Cops. The best evidence that I obtained other than the "I didn't do it" was actually from the county engineer. I called their office and inquired about the certification of the traffic control device in question. I remembered that they had been blown down with a recent hurricane and the engineer had told me that they had not been re-certified since. He faxed me over a written statement with that information and his signature. Take lots of photos of the light and his location in relation to your car, it may have been difficult to see both at the exact same time. Finally I had a list of questions for the officer to try and make my case, where was your car located in relation, training, traffic, etc. Good luck

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by E90Av8r

look up the statute in your state and make sure that you are in the right before proceeding, otherwise you may want to plead no contest at this point.

I also obtained a copy of the in-car camera from the officers car.
Finally I had a list of questions for the officer to try and make my case, where was your car located in relation, training, traffic, etc.

thanks a lot for your response. what do you mean by looking up statute in my state? do you know where i can find that information?

also, where and how can you obtain copies of those other documents?

so, if you lost, would you have to pay additional fees and penalties?

[vladinecko]

ok, i found the document on our DOT's website. here is what it says about signal indicators, what do you think?

(2) Steady yellow indication.--
(i) Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned
that the related green indication is being terminated or that a red indication will be
exhibited immediately thereafter.
(ii) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal as
provided in section 3113, pedestrians facing a steady yellow signal are thereby advised
that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown and no
pedestrian shall then start to cross the roadway.
(3) Steady red indication.--
(i) Vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop at a
clearly marked stop line, or if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the
intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing
until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in subparagraph (ii).

[E90Av8r]

Originally Posted by vladinecko

thanks a lot for your response. what do you mean by looking up statute in my state? do you know where i can find that information?

also, where and how can you obtain copies of those other documents?

so, if you lost, would you have to pay additional fees and penalties?

I obtained my driving record from my local county courthouse (same place you pay the ticket), the in-car camera came from my local police department and the traffic signal certification came from the Volusia county DOT. Your statute looks about the same as in FL. As for the additional fees, I think that if you have no case or anything prepared for a defense they can add additional court costs, but I think its more of a scare tactic to get you to plead no contest.
Hope that helps!

[e90rocks]

Originally Posted by vladinecko

thanks a lot for your response. what do you mean by looking up statute in my state? do you know where i can find that information?

also, where and how can you obtain copies of those other documents?

so, if you lost, would you have to pay additional fees and penalties?

OK, so from a fellow Pittsburgher:
You can get your ticket record online from the DOT website. It will cost about $12 or so. The main thing is not the fine, but the points and the report to insurance. I got ticketed on the Turnpike, and basically I showed up (at the advice of the cop, BTW) at the magistrate's office as scheduled, having plead innocent. I then told the judge that I was speeding and that I was just worried about points and insurance. He gave me minimum fine and I got no points. I think if I were you, because crossing under the light is a judgement issue, I would plead innocent, show up to the magistrate's office, and explain that while you understand the safety issue involved, are willing to pay the fine, you are concerned about points and your insurance premium.

As far as points go, running a red light is a moving violation, so it should get you 3 points. You probably know that in PA you automatically erase 2 points a year. I forget how many...maybe 7 points...put you in "safe driving" school. Anyway, the real deal is that you don't want your insurance costs to go up, and whether it does or not depends upon the company (you could ask them a hypothetical question, I suppose), and how this all goes down.

[vladinecko]

damn, 3 points!?!? now i'm definitely pleading not guilty. that's ridiculous considering the circumstances!

thanks for the info!

[geeslice]

I know in the state of virginia if you pleasd not guilty and show up in court and you are still found guilty (which will happen assuming your cop shows up) they say you "can" be held responsbile for court costs.

They try to discourage people from fighting it out here...

[BMW F22]

I would plead not guilty and set up a court date. Then just call in a few days before and tell them that you cant make it that day. JUst reschedule it 2 or 3 times just to drag it out as long as possible. By then, the officer'd probably have forgotten about the ticket and not show up.

[e90rocks]

No problem, Vlad. BTW, the officer did show up, but I got the ticket reduced just the same. I think here in Western PA, everybody gets something, to some extent. While I lose some time in traffic court (it was fast, tho), and the fine, I get no points, no insurance prob therefore, and minimized fine. I was not docked extra for court costs (they make ya pay part of the fine $62.50 or something) up front by mail if you plead innocent. The cop still gets to have his quota filled, and the judge gets to look like a nice guy for reducing a "sentence"...and I start using cruise control to counteract my lead foot. In their eyes, everybody wins. I didn't bother with a lawyer.

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

I would plead not guilty and set up a court date. Then just call in a few days before and tell them that you cant make it that day. JUst reschedule it 2 or 3 times just to drag it out as long as possible. By then, the officer'd probably have forgotten about the ticket and not show up.

i was thinking about it as someone else suggested this strategy in previous threads. don't you think this would piss them off though? i would be afraid that once i would get there (after 2-3 cancellations) they would have no mercy on me (if the cop still shows up).

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by e90rocks

No problem, Vlad. BTW, the officer did show up, but I got the ticket reduced just the same. I think here in Western PA, everybody gets something, to some extent. While I lose some time in traffic court (it was fast, tho), and the fine, I get no points, no insurance prob therefore, and minimized fine. I was not docked extra for court costs (they make ya pay part of the fine $62.50 or something) up front by mail if you plead innocent. The cop still gets to have his quota filled, and the judge gets to look like a nice guy for reducing a "sentence"...and I start using cruise control to counteract my lead foot. In their eyes, everybody wins. I didn't bother with a lawyer.

well, i just sent in the slip with my name signed under NOT GUILTY line. i would pay the ticket and just forget it but i definitely don't want any points on my record. my insurance company (GEICO) would crucify me with increases and additional fees. i got insured with them because they were the cheapest at the time but in matter of only 6 months (next billing cycle) they raised the premium by over $200 and gave no reason for it. so i assume they just got me as a new customer with a low price initially predicting i would stay with them after which they would get all their money back by increasing the premium every 6 months. f**k 'em!

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by vladinecko

i was thinking about it as someone else suggested this strategy in previous threads. don't you think this would piss them off though? i would be afraid that once i would get there (after 2-3 cancellations) they would have no mercy on me (if the cop still shows up).

I dont think they will get pissed off at you. Just tell them that you have a family emergency or that you have some important stuff at work to take care of. I bet a lot of people do this and the court does understand that people are busy working. Even if they do get mad, what can they do?? I've never heard anyone getting fined even more when they go to court. They either get off or get the fines reduced. What do you have to lose?? G'luck

[E90Av8r]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

I would plead not guilty and set up a court date. Then just call in a few days before and tell them that you cant make it that day. JUst reschedule it 2 or 3 times just to drag it out as long as possible. By then, the officer'd probably have forgotten about the ticket and not show up.

I have also used this trick and it works quite well. After the second time they usually won't let you do it, but its worth a try. In my town the officers are paid the lowest of the surrounding areas, so there is a high turnover rate.