[malcesine]

BMW 520i G30 owner from central Scotland.
8k annually mainly on A class roads and rarely absolutely HAVE to drive if weather extremely bad.

2x Winters RFT tyres on my winter 17" alloys need replacing, but thinking about a change.
Reading more on cross climate tyres, it seems they might actually be more suitable 95% of time in my location due to rising average temps, 5-10 days or less of serious snow etc
Plan is still to to change wheels every winter to square 17's and so get maximum benefit from standard 18" summers etc.

Additionally, Winter runflats for my 225/55/17 seem harder to find, are uber expensive and given I'll need to replace other 2 next year, is now right time to change approach?
UK market seems totally dominated by cross climates.

Interested to hear particularly from bimmers who have had similar dilemma and made a change.

[tturedraider]

In my opinion if you are going to go to the effort of changing wheels each season you might as well use actual winter tires. But, I live in an area where we get multiple days in a row throughout the winter of new snow on the ground.

[BeEmVe]

If you get all-weather tires I would run them year round. For about the first 60% of their thread life they will be fine in snow. The next 20% they will be okay. After that run them through the summer and replace them before winter.

We have two sets of shoes for our buggy. 4x summer, 4x winter. All go flat, all the same size. When traveling we just toss one of the tires in the back with tool kit. If one goes, we have a real spare. Had to utilize that once when the tire was not repairable.

Why go that route? In short, anymore getting a replacement tire, run flat or go flat can be a PITA. Often taking a day or more to get it from the regional warehouse. With a RFT you may get back to a town but are really not going to go far. At least with a go flat and all the same size you can get home on the spare (think being in London on a weekend, trashing a tire on a Saturday, and the local shops saying they can have a replacement on Tuesday, but you need to be to work on Monday).

[alex2364]

Depends if you HAVE to drive with moderate/heavy snow on the roads. All season is fine as long as it’s light snow.

[malcesine]

Thanks for replies.
More convinced than ever all season way to go in UK having done more research, especially the Michelin Cross climate2.
If I didn't have staggered summer wheels, I might have gone all in now on 1 set (larger 275 rear cross climate/run flats are off the chart expensive / hard to find.
Not only that my summers have a lot of life left - another 3 years hopefully.

Going to get rid of the nearly done winters for the Michelin CC2 then do wholesale change to square 18's when my summers are nearly done.

[o_g]

I have CrossClimate2's on a Merc E300 back in Toronto. It's an excellent year round tire. Very decent in the dry, wet and snow. Almost as good as a snow tire. They have excellent reviews as well.

[pbonsalb]

I ran Michelin PS AS4 all seasons last winter on my F90 M5 and drove in snow no problem but that car is AWD. A lot of RWD cars are marginal in snow with all seasons — for my RWD cars I buy snows. A family member gave me a Nissan Altima 15-20 years ago and it was OK with all seasons in snow. I have seen other FWD cars that are not good in snow with all seasons.

I actually have snows on wheels for the M5 as well as the all seasons and summers on wheels. But had no need to use the snows.

[cooolone2]

No such thing as a Jack of all Trades in tires! You get what you expect when you select the tire! Summer tires aren't good for winter, all seasons are ok for all seasons but not the best! Winter tires and the compound used gives superior grip and performance in those temps and surfaces. Same goes for summer tires... Temp and surface expectations! You get the tire for what you want... You want the best grip and predictability in winter or summer, you get those tires! You want just ok in most situations, then go for all season. But please, don't confuse summer or winter tires with all seasons, no matter what someone wants to sell you!

Good Luck

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

I would just get winter tires, don't see the point of all season if you will be swapping wheels honestly.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I ran Michelin PS AS4 all seasons last year on my F90 M5 and drove in snow no problem but that car is AWD. A lot of RWD cars are marginal in snow with all seasons — for my RWD cars I buy snows. A family member gave me a Nissan Altima 15-20 years ago and it was OK with all seasons in snow. I have seen other FWD cars that are not good in snow with all seasons.

I actually have snows on wheels for the M5 as well as the all seasons and summers on wheels. But had no need to use the snows.

Got to remember though safety driving is not just about being able to move, it's also about stopping and not sliding for meters and meters when you have to brake quickly.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Got to remember though safety driving is not just about being able to move, it's also about stopping and not sliding for meters and meters when you have to brake quickly.

Yes, snows have shorter stopping distances in snow than all seasons. I know the difference, having run snows one winter and all seasons the next, and that for the M5 I have 3 sets of wheels to swap among, as I find the need. Snows are a compromise also — soft, jiggly, poor handling, less stable at high speed, and that is for performance snows. Much of the time, however, I find that compromise is not needed because there is not much snow on the road. Maybe I don’t live in as harsh a climate as you — I am in NH.

[zx10guy]

I have Cross Climate 2s on my Toyota C-HR. Was planning on getting a set of winter tires mounted on steel wheels from Tire Rack. After going through a winter storm with the Cross Climate 2s, I have changed my mind on getting winter tires. Cross Climate 2s are rated for winter tire use. They are decent in the dry and with snow/ice. However, they leave a lot to be desired for wet performance. When the tires are new, they're ok. But as the mileage stacks on the tires, the wet performance drops off.

The gripe about wet performance is echoed by the Youtuber Tyre Reviews. He's even said that he hopes Michelin on the next iteration of the Cross Climates take away some of the winter weather performance to boost the wet/rain performance.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

I just realised the Cross Climate tires are all weather rather than all seasons (they have the snowflake icon). This changes my first post, I'd say they are a good option for sure but at that point, that's like a tire to have on your car all year round to avoid swapping wheels IMO. Like my friend has some all weather on his pickup. Maybe sport winter tires would be actually useful here (I ranted on the topic in other posts).

[tranquility]

I'm going the other way because I had a thread talking about my disdain for RFTs and wish to go to reg tires. Anyway, we have to have winter tires by law here so no idea about A/Ss or other similar types. If you're planning on changing tires anyway to match the season, you ought to get dedicated tires.

[pbonsalb]

Some all seasons have the snow tire rating and are legal as snows and some do not. The PS AS4 that I have do not have the snow tire rating. But they are pretty good in the snow on my AWD M5. For my RWD cars, I have only used snows.

There is another video like this but I can’t find it easily.

[No one]

Originally Posted by malcesine

Reading more on cross climate tyres, it seems they might actually be more suitable 95% of time in my location due to rising average temps, 5-10 days or less of serious snow etc
Plan is still to to change wheels every winter to square 17's and so get maximum benefit from standard 18" summers etc.

As it has been said already, the very/only purpose of all season tyres is to never change them. And they are all season compromise! What you need from your description are mild/"European" winter tyres, not "Nordic" ones (winter tyres fall into two categories: for mild winter and for severe/"Nordic" winter, the latter can be studded or not). Here's a video on winter tyres from another thread around: https://f20.1addicts.com/forums/show...9#post30641029.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'm going the other way because I had a thread talking about my disdain for RFTs and wish to go to reg tires. Anyway, we have to have winter tires by law here so no idea about A/Ss or other similar types. If you're planning on changing tires anyway to match the season, you ought to get dedicated tires.

The all weather tires fall under our law, they have the winter tire logo on them. They are better than all seasons (or should I say 3 season lol). But yeah I agree if you want to swap wheels, might as well get more dedicated.

[Murf the Surf]

You mentioned not much snow in the OP, but the other thing to consider is cold. At 7C all season and summer tires start to harden up and give less stopping distance on dry roads. Winter or Snow tires remain softer and give much better braking on cold road surfaces. Like many have said, if you're changing your tires anyway get winter tires.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

The all weather tires fall under our law, they have the winter tire logo on them. They are better than all seasons (or should I say 3 season lol). But yeah I agree if you want to swap wheels, might as well get more dedicated.

Tx for the knowledge. So, what's the difference between A/Ss and A/Ws in a nutshell? Are A/Ss better than A/Ws in certain aspects?

I assume for winter it's winter tires>>A/W>>A/S?

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

You mentioned not much snow in the OP, but the other thing to consider is cold. At 7C all season and summer tires start to harden up and give less stopping distance on dry roads. Winter or Snow tires remain softer and give much better braking on cold road surfaces. Like many have said, if you're changing your tires anyway get winter tires.

Exactly, ppl get hung up on the physical weather conditions but that 7C threshold is key, e.g. it could be clear roads but if it's -11C, having summers may get one into trouble.

[pbonsalb]

A week ago I was driving my AWD M5 with summer tires, accelerated hard off the line and around a corner and the rear tires spun and slid a few feet before traction control took over. Temp was in the 30s F. I changed to all seasons and they are fine under the same conditions. The temp range for the summers is definitely different from the temp range for the all seasons. I don’t notice much difference between the snows and all seasons.

[Sushimaster]

Snow is not a problem. Temps and ice is the problem. Please dont be stupid, use winter tire.

[celsdogg]

just a heads up, there is a newer ice certification on real winter and snow tires since manufacturers started putting the the 3 mountain snow flake on some 3 season tires (i.e., all-seasons).

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...certification/