[theslik1]

Looks very promising, and makes a hard decision even harder for those on the fence between 135i/EVO/STi. Apparently the new motor responds extremely well to a simple tune (no turbo, intake, or exhaust hardware mods).

"Simply put, the X has proven to be more tune-friendly than even the IX. While it makes a bit less power in stock configurations, it ends up making quite a bit more power when tuned both cars are tuned. All tuning was done with a modified version of our BMW PROcede v2 engine control computer that was re-coded to accept the new Mitsu-specific 36-3 trigger wheel and misc sensors."

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=322616

Of course, there's also some Shiv bashing but the info bodes well for the general EVO X tuning market.

[imported_MPower]

I would be concerned, of course, with driveability. A lot of these aftermarket ECU tunes are getting nice peak numbers but exponentially increase the lag.

[Evolved]

Originally Posted by MPower

I would be concerned, of course, with driveability. A lot of these aftermarket ECU tunes are getting nice peak numbers but exponentially increase the lag.

What?

[larryn]

A lot of single turbo tunes add excessive turbo-lag feeling, because the boost comes on harder, and at a higher RPM than the stock mapping (usually).

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Evolved

What?

Is this a new concept or something? Most of the time when these ECU tunes come out, they do a really good job of producing high peak outputs but increase the amount of turbo lag in low rpms.

[Evolved]

Originally Posted by MPower

Is this a new concept or something? Most of the time when these ECU tunes come out, they do a really good job of producing high peak outputs but increase the amount of turbo lag in low rpms.

And how is that possible?

I think you are confusing turbo lag with something else.

[theslik1]

I think what is being called "lag" in this case is the feel of the power delivery. The small turbo used in the EVO shouldn't be laggy at low rpms, but the power comes on so much stronger up top due to the tune that it could be perceived that way. Of course, the ECU is controlling the wastegate so it is completely possible to delay turbo spool-up down low (example: launch control). That would be artificially-induced lag.

What I know traditionally as lag has more to do with the turbo's physical spool-up characteristics based on size, vane design, etc as boost is demanded.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by MPower

I would be concerned, of course, with driveability. A lot of these aftermarket ECU tunes are getting nice peak numbers but exponentially increase the lag.

Name one?

I think you are referring to instances where a larger turbo has been added.

I would love to see you find one aftermarket EM system where lag and/or midrange power has not been increased on the stock turbo. I think you are confused.

[Drawarms]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Name one?

I think you are referring to instances where a larger turbo has been added.

I would love to see you find one aftermarket EM system where lag and/or midrange power has not been increased on the stock turbo. I think you are confused.

Amen. Thats gonna happen to a crappy stock turbo.

[theslik1]

Back on topic with more dyno goodness...on crappy 91 octane again.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=323641

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

I think you are confused.

So do I...

Let me rearrange my original argument. In my own experiences, most modifications of these sorts achieve peak numbers while sacrificing driveability (forget lag, I don't know what I was trying to say there...). What I mean by driveability is mainly smoothness and consistent, linear power delivery. I think that is why many in the MINI world were happy to pay the 6,000 or so dollars for the JCW kit when they could have achieved similar or better results in the aftermarket. While those aftermarket products would get you the power, they did not deliver their power not nearly as smoothly as the JCW kit.

Now, each car is different, but my fear with aftermarket modifications is having to sacrifice the typical OEM "polished" power delivery.

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by MPower

Now, each car is different, but my fear with aftermarket modifications is having to sacrifice the typical OEM "polished" power delivery.

Good morning to all!

That seems to be less of an issue with modern ECU hacks. Most of the reviews I've seen for N54 applications (Procede, TT, AA Xede, etc) indicate that typical "puttering around" driving isn't adversely affected at all. They also indicate that, along with better mid-range and top-end power, mpg is improved in normal driving.

Shiv states that the EVO X is tuned ridiculously rich from the factory, which is no surprise for Mitsu veterans. We should expect to see N54 type results from good tunes i.e. higher power throughout the range and as-good or better part-throttle drivability/improved mpg.

[Dave]

nice dynos... i wonder how much more cams and tbe will yield?

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by theslik1

Good morning to all!

That seems to be less of an issue with modern ECU hacks. Most of the reviews I've seen for N54 applications (Procede, TT, AA Xede, etc) indicate that typical "puttering around" driving isn't adversely affected at all. They also indicate that, along with better mid-range and top-end power, mpg is improved in normal driving.

Shiv states that the EVO X is tuned ridiculously rich from the factory, which is no surprise for Mitsu veterans. We should expect to see N54 type results from good tunes i.e. higher power throughout the range and as-good or better part-throttle drivability/improved mpg.

Well, like I said, it depends upon the car and the tune. There is no question that Vishnu does a great job with their ECU tunes. Even then, most of the time, any slightly unsmooth power delivery that is present in the OEM-state of tune is most likely going to be amplified with the ECU tune.

BTW, I am the only one that thinks that the dyno they posted actually isnt that impressive at all? Considering they replaced cats and exhaust as well as modify the ECU, I would expect more than a ~20 horsepower and ~25 lb.ft. of torque improvement. Perhaps I am reading that dyno wrong...

[grant]

Originally Posted by MPower

BTW, I am the only one that thinks that the dyno they posted actually isnt that impressive at all? Considering they replaced cats and exhaust as well as modify the ECU, I would expect more than a ~20 horsepower and ~25 lb.ft. of torque improvement. Perhaps I am reading that dyno wrong...

Yes, you are reading the dyno wrong. Those numbers are at the wheels (about 80% of power made at the flywheel). Subject line said 90 awhp added from stock (or about 112hp added at flywheel over stock).

[chemhalo]

What really needs to be determined is if the Lancer Ralliart can make the exact same evo numbers with tune. It will be one hell of deal if it can. And im sure stock evo x owners will be if a tuned ralliart blows them away.

[grant]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

What really needs to be determined is if the Lancer Ralliart can make the exact same evo numbers with tune. It will be one hell of deal if it can. And im sure stock evo x owners will be if a tuned ralliart blows them away.

That only matters if you want to go straight. The EVO X's best feature (and only reason to buy a X instead of a IX) is the Torque Vectoring AWD with Active Yaw Control which prevents any understeer (very difficult to achieve with AWD) and is not available on the Ralliart.

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

What really needs to be determined is if the Lancer Ralliart can make the exact same evo numbers with tune. It will be one hell of deal if it can. And im sure stock evo x owners will be if a tuned ralliart blows them away.

That is exactly what I was thinking! I could care less about all the rest of the differences between the Ralliart and the Evo, as long as the engine could be tuned!

I could care less about the computer nannies trying to take over control to reduce understeer. That's what suspension mods, "The Flick", and a heavy gas pedal is for. Forget the computer nanny, control it yourself.

[grant]

Originally Posted by Nixon

That is exactly what I was thinking! I could care less about all the rest of the differences between the Ralliart and the Evo, as long as the engine could be tuned!

So you're only looking for a drag racer? There are better and cheaper ways to go fast in a straight line, imho...

[chemhalo]

Originally Posted by grant

So you're only looking for a drag racer? There are better and cheaper ways to go fast in a straight line, imho...

Name one new car with AWD, over 300hp (assuming tuned), looks good (rules out the WRX in my opinion :smile, has 4 doors, can be driven every day, and for the price of the Ralliart.

[grant]

Originally Posted by Nixon

I could care less about the computer nannies trying to take over control to reduce understeer. That's what suspension mods, "The Flick", and a heavy gas pedal is for. Forget the computer nanny, control it yourself.

A local (for you and me) professional racer, Paul Gerard seems to take a different position. I've driven with him on the track and he knows his sh!t:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=324421

Besides, if $30k is the target, you're only $3k away with the EVO X and that's before the inevitable rebates/discounts, once the newness wears off...

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by grant

Yes, you are reading the dyno wrong. Those numbers are at the wheels (about 80% of power made at the flywheel). Subject line said 90 awhp added from stock (or about 112hp added at flywheel over stock).

Ahh... I see. The dyno graph shows the differences between "tuned Stock" (I just saw stock and ran with it) and the tuned plus cat and exhaust.