[S6F]

of the M50 X3, either European or American? Always amazed to see so many folks ordering a completely new design, like the 550e or the X3, without ever reading a review or test driving the car. But that’s just me!

[avi66]

Originally Posted by S6F

of the M50 X3, either European or American? Always amazed to see so many folks ordering a completely new design, like the 550e or the X3, without ever reading a review or test driving the car. But that’s just me!

It appears many people are invested in buying a new BMW X3 that it wouldn’t really matter how bad it was.

Like you say, no objective test reviews, or even test drives of production cars. Ideally we need reviews from people that are not dependent on BMW, and can say what they really think without being taken off the BMW Xmas list.

[MidnightLight]

We'll undoubtedly see some YouTubers review the car in early October, when the G45 starts being available on dealer lots for test drives. I'm guessing the likes of Car & Driver, Edmunds, etc will put out their opinions in the weeks thereafter.

[myg45]

Originally Posted by avi66

It appears many people are invested in buying a new BMW X3 that it wouldn’t really matter how bad it was.

Like you say, no objective test reviews, or even test drives of production cars. Ideally we need reviews from people that are not dependent on BMW, and can say what they really think without being taken off the BMW Xmas list.

We should wait for Consumer Reports review.

[JoeyO]

That’s not a good sign that we haven’t seen any driving-reviews. Is that sort of like not seeing any film critic reviews before the release of a movie? Hollywood usually holds off on the bad reviews until the day of release. My guess is the new X3 will be hitting dealer lots very soon. Typically the press gets their hands on a driving model, well in advance of any dealer. Sometimes 4-6 months in advance. It’s just odd we haven’t seen any yet.

[mart1nco]

Actually there's already a few videos on YT of driving pre-production models available, with BMW engineers explaining changes to steering, suspension, chassis, emergency assistants, offroad capabilities etc. Not sure I can share the links here, but it looks promising based on what was said in those previews.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by mart1nco

Actually there's already a few videos on YT of driving pre-production models available, with BMW engineers explaining changes to steering, suspension, chassis, emergency assistants, offroad capabilities etc. Not sure I can share the links here, but it looks promising based on what was said in those previews.

I’ve seen those “by invitation” heavily controlled pre production drives with the camo still in place.

I’d prefer to see feedback on production cars from people who aren’t tied to BMW, or will lose future review privileges/income if they say anything but positive things. BMW uses these events to generate positive influences, Putin style.

There is too much conflict of interest to bite the hand that feeds

[avi66]

Originally Posted by myg45

We should wait for Consumer Reports review.

Once the car is in the wild I’m sure there will be no shortage of reviews from many sources.

I don’t know if it’s just me, but the G45 launch and initial press momentum seems very subdued compared to G01 as an example.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

That’s not a good sign that we haven’t seen any driving-reviews. Is that sort of like not seeing any film critic reviews before the release of a movie? Hollywood usually holds off on the bad reviews until the day of release. My guess is the new X3 will be hitting dealer lots very soon. Typically the press gets their hands on a driving model, well in advance of any dealer. Sometimes 4-6 months in advance. It’s just odd we haven’t seen any yet.

Unless an OEM wishes to have a pre-production/prototype driver for whatever their strategy may be, the press embargo date for reviews of production-level vehicles (again, pre-volume production, but supposedly representative) is usually intended to coordinate with showroom availability so as not to peak interest too early. The concept is, "read about it; go see and drive it". There is more perceived value (rightly or wrongly) in letting anticipation build than flooding the market with reviews only to have nothing to show at the dealership. Also, an honest but not-great review doesn't get invitations withdrawn for the future, but violating the embargo date will.

[JoeyO]

Drives “with BMW engineers.” Do you really think those are going to be unbiased and honest reviews?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Drives “with BMW engineers.” Do you really think those are going to be unbiased and honest reviews?

Absolutely.

It is important to understand the symbiotic relationship between the press and the OEMs. They each need each other and treat each other accordingly. I've hosted, presented, and attended these events for another OEM and had engineers drive with the media. The articles are written later after the drive and we always got the honesty that the writers pride themselves on. The writers prized their independence and can't be talked into anything by an engineer. Sitting around at a dinner event after a day's drive, we would discuss the pros and cons of a new vehicle and sometimes, those comments would result in product changes. Writers often see themselves as experts and take pride in sharing their highly analytical opinion and debate it among themselves or with those of us from the OEM. These events become a session of "car guys talking". If an OEM disinvited a journalist due to a less than glowing review, the rest of the press would be outraged to the detriment of the OEM. The OEM also doesn't want to lose the exposure of that particular publication. As long as the reviews were honest and sincere, my OEM employer accepted all the comments, positive and negative, and often already knew the negatives were based on credible points of view.

One last point. As long as writers are human, there will never be an unbiased review. Consciously or not, all people have filters and biases that affect perception. They can be honest about their opinions, but never unbiased.

[JoeyO]

I meant where 100% of the review is done by the BMW engineers. No outside press involvement.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

I meant where 100% of the review is done by the BMW engineers. No outside press involvement.

Those are promotional publicity pieces, not reviews. Reliable as any advertising.

[JoeyO]

Yea, sorry, was responding to Mart1nco’s post. I should have clarified.

[MagicJohnson]

Are the cars on lots yet? If not, when?

[puckhead85]

Originally Posted by MagicJohnson

Are the cars on lots yet? If not, when?

They are just starting production. My guess is within 3 weeks or so. Supposedly they can't sell them until October..but nothing official yet. A few Canadian dealers have gotten demos they show for a bit.

[hb]

Will drive the car next week. If you have specific questions about the X3 M50, you can always post here. Anything you want me to test, driving, design, tech, features, quality, space, etc..

[hb]

Originally Posted by avi66

I’ve seen those “by invitation” heavily controlled pre production drives with the camo still in place.

I’d prefer to see feedback on production cars from people who aren’t tied to BMW, or will lose future review privileges/income if they say anything but positive things. BMW uses these events to generate positive influences, Putin style.

There is too much conflict of interest to bite the hand that feeds

No one loses any privileges if you don't post just positive things. You can safely watch those pre-drive videos. They are not as controlled as you think. You're in the car driving and talking about it, no one will slap your hand if you say something negative.

Btw, BMW usess these events to lead the marketing for a new car, but that doesn't mean it changes how one reviews the car. It's exactly the same process as a normal test drive. The only different is that sometimes you need to drive inside a testing facility, like Miramas. Which is fine, they have great roads inside and a great track.

[hb]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Drives “with BMW engineers.” Do you really think those are going to be unbiased and honest reviews?

100%. You can say whatever you want in the car. I know my review of the hybrid wasn't really positive. I called the car a bit sluggish.

[hb]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Unless an OEM wishes to have a pre-production/prototype driver for whatever their strategy may be, the press embargo date for reviews of production-level vehicles (again, pre-volume production, but supposedly representative) is usually intended to coordinate with showroom availability so as not to peak interest too early. The concept is, "read about it; go see and drive it". There is more perceived value (rightly or wrongly) in letting anticipation build than flooding the market with reviews only to have nothing to show at the dealership. Also, an honest but not-great review doesn't get invitations withdrawn for the future, but violating the embargo date will.

You nailed it! Look at everyone who reviewed the XM and are still around.

Even violating the embargo date, by mistake, won't ban you. It happened to a lot of us. You apologize and you try to be more careful. Of course, I'm talking about BMW here, not sure how other OEMs do it

[hb]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Absolutely.

It is important to understand the symbiotic relationship between the press and the OEMs. They each need each other and treat each other accordingly. I've hosted, presented, and attended these events for another OEM and had engineers drive with the media. The articles are written later after the drive and we always got the honesty that the writers pride themselves on. The writers prized their independence and can't be talked into anything by an engineer. Sitting around at a dinner event after a day's drive, we would discuss the pros and cons of a new vehicle and sometimes, those comments would result in product changes. Writers often see themselves as experts and take pride in sharing their highly analytical opinion and debate it among themselves or with those of us from the OEM. These events become a session of "car guys talking". If an OEM disinvited a journalist due to a less than glowing review, the rest of the press would be outraged to the detriment of the OEM. The OEM also doesn't want to lose the exposure of that particular publication. As long as the reviews were honest and sincere, my OEM employer accepted all the comments, positive and negative, and often already knew the negatives were based on credible points of view.

One last point. As long as writers are human, there will never be an unbiased review. Consciously or not, all people have filters and biases that affect perception. They can be honest about their opinions, but never unbiased.

Nothing more to add. Well said.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by hb

Nothing more to add. Well said.

Thanks. I really enjoyed all the time spent presenting to and talking with automotive journalists, a very diverse group of sharp folks who were great conversationalists. This may age me, but my time with David E Davis, Jean Lindamood, Csaba Csere, etc. felt like a privilege. We also got to travel to great and luxurious locations as our PR department had a very extensive budget for our launches!