[Edward]

I keep coming to a major mental crossroad on a monthly basis where I feel like I should go get my MBA. Looking for some sound advice from those who have been here and beyond.

I have worked at a bulge bracket firm for my entire career starting after I graduated from university in 2005. I survived through massive firings and actually have a very good record against my peers at my company in the asset management division.

I currently do not have a CFA nor do I plan on going for it because portfolio management is not an area I want to go into ever. Especially with hedge funds having less reasons to exist these days in the form they have existed in. Fund companies are under intense scrutiny and will further see fees reduced.

Business school tends to be this "thing" that is deemed appropriate for advancement into C-level management, but that comes at the cost of job security. When the next recession comes, mgmt will be flattened yet again and you will be fighting for your right to exist as overhead and not a revenue source.
In my field, an MBA does not guarantee you a quantifiable bump in pay. It may not even be absolutely necessary to get to very high levels of management. What I'm trying to get at is that a cost benefit analysis is not easy to do. However, my firm will pay a portion of the cost, and my father said he'd pay the rest. I have no downside. By the way, I'm 27, if you couldn't approximate by my graduation year.

I keep getting these massive attacks of a sense of urgency and necessity for getting this MBA because something in my head keeps making me feel worthless for lack of a better word, if I let the opportunity slide by as I get older. I don't want to wake up at 40 and realize that this is my one and only regret.

Currently, the issue is that I have not yet gotten through much of my gmat study material so I have no live score to submit...which makes fall '11 applications for first rounds very difficult to shoot for.
There's always the issue with not getting into a good enough school for my liking.
I do not want to give up my income, so part time is the only real option unless I get into a very great full time program in which I'd have to leave my firm. I would leave at the expense of current income and throwing away a lot of deferred compensation that is tied to a bullsh*t vesting schedule.
Another negative is that the world ran back to school to hide from this economy. An MBA is becoming less of a distinction, but is it also becoming the expected norm?

The pros are that part time progs are easier to get into and I could continue to advance my career while going to school, but that would restrict me to the schools in the LA area unless I try to transfer to a different office and work there while going part time to a school in the east coast.
I am also unmarried and not committed to any woman in life and very much lead a bachelor lifestyle.

My dad is the head of a very large global conglomerate and would be very much expected to be the one who is behind me pushing me into continuing my education, however it is quite the opposite. He cares little for pedigree and respects actual work history and proven results/accomplishments. He thinks I should just keep kicking ass where I am instead of trying to jump ship. It's kind of annoying to me that he's not pressuring me into this.

What would you guys do in my position?

[Seminole]

Do you need it to advance to some level in your company you want to get to? One of the biggest mistakes you can make is getting a degree just for the heck of it. Now if you went and got your MBA it wouldn't really be a negative except for the time, money, and effort you have to put into it. Your dad is probably a pretty smart man judging from the position he holds, so I would give some weight to his opinion. I also think he is dead on. If your industry doesn't require MBA's then more weight will definitely be put on experience and results.

But if you do decide to go ahead and get one, have you considered online programs? I know that Florida State and University of Florida (pretty good business schools) both offer online MBA programs. That would let you stay in your current location and work at the same time.

[BTM]

Man I know exactly what you're talking about. I have been back and forth on this issue since graduating in December of last year. I've decided to pursue it and am hoping on getting started on GMATs hard next month, there are a few things to take care of first. What changed my mind was that my parents said they would cover it. I wanted to go, but didn't feel comfortable taking on that amount of debt for something, like you mention, to which the outcome is uncertain. But think of it this way - you are basically being offered a scholarship for your MBA, I don't know about you but I'm not one to leave free money on the table.

You have the work experience, so GMAT score is important as always but will be a lot less of a priority for you. Get a decent score, look into night or weekend programs, which even the top tier MBA programs offer (for example UChicago ranked #1 by the Economist, offers nights or weekends - can't complain with that). This way you will be able to keep your career while working towards your educational goals as well.

[nightkhan]

kind of in the same boat. trying to decide what the best option for me is (same grad year, same age, in securities instead of asset mgmt). i just took the gmat this past summer, helpful tip, use the manhattan review products, and i've decided to to primarily pursue part time/executive program since i don't want to give up a salary and work, and my managers all say that an mba isn't really necessary unless i want to get into c-level management. i'll be applying probably next fall, for fall 2010 entry.

[TMNT]

One thing I've noticed with most business related jobs posted it says, "bachelors required, MBA prefered."

The funny thing is that 80% of these jobs aren't really in the realm of what an MBA was orginiallysought for...we're talking regular sales, marketing, and management jobs asking for MBA's. It's actually quiet ridiculous, but alas...its reality.

A Bachelors isn't as cool as it once was...everyone wants you to have an MBA, whether your job really fits that requirement or not.

I have actually been looking at going back part time as well and my company just went from offering 100% paid tuition to 5k a year!

[BTM]

Originally Posted by TMNT

A Bachelors isn't as cool as it once was...everyone wants you to have an MBA, whether your job really fits that requirement or not.

From personal experience I can tell you this 100% true and I'm finding out the hard way. Combined with a down economy, those with a bachelor's seem to be qualified for 38-45k annual jobs. Notice I did not say careers. As long as you're not the one taking on the debt, I think advancing your education is a great idea right now - I was hesitant not wanting to go back to school right away, but even those of us who are working decent jobs are at best going to be treading water for a while (from a career standpoint) - why not poise ourself ideally for inevitable economic upturn?

[xtac]

The question you want to ask yourself is, what do you what type of position, career, or life do you want in the future, and what does that take.

[Nedim]

Im going for an MBA right now. One of the classes that I absolutely hate is Accounting 2. FUCK SCHOOL

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by Nedim

Im going for an MBA right now. One of the classes that I absolutely hate is Accounting 2. FUCK SCHOOL

What kind of stuff do they teach in that?

[dth656]

my .02, fwiw:

i did undergrad engineering (top-ranked school), and was working in a startup in a technical role, but decided that i wanted to career switch (into management consulting) given that, an MBA made sense for me at that time. would i do it again? i think so:

-access to an ivy-league alumni network (all of my jobs post b-school have been via alumni contacts or networking events--it can certainly help get your foot or resume in the door, then its up to you)
-soft skills- group work, and some of the softer classes actually helped me quite a bit, given that i already had a quant background. the coursework overall, however, is not very rigorous (some of my classmates had never even taken calculus before)
-access to on-campus recruiting
-two year vacation- compared to engineering undergrad, b-school was a joke.

in terms of directly using school material on the job, for me its been limited to very few things such as financial statement analysis and spreadsheet modelling...

[dth656]

just read the LA part---in so cal, your best best is probably Anderson at UCLA; if you are willing to relocate to norcal, you can try for Haas or Stanford GSB

[wuzupfoo]

Honestly its a question that only you can answer because of the specifics involved both for you personally and also professionally. I've contemplated it myself and I will probably end up going in a couple years after I stack a few more years of management experience cuz as your father has told you work experience trumps a piece of paper.

However and this is a big one, at least from my understanding and talking to other MBA grads, if you are thinking of switching careers it can be key, the exposure to different people in the MBA program can be vital in introducing you to a network of people that can help in switching careers. Of course it does apply to your current field but honestly speaking if you are climbing the ladder currently you're most likely gonna hurt your progress in the short run and you will inevitably meet colleagues in your current field at work.

This is the aspect Im most interested in. Ive been in risk management at a commodity trading firm and have gotten to middle management but this isnt what I really wanted to do, Ive always been more interested in investment banking or even asset management, the current people I meet are all energy specific so it doesnt help me in getting into that business.

The only way I see myself getting into that field is with an MBA and getting lucky meeting the right people.

Btw is your firm accepting resumes?? haha

You are in a special predicament because the cost issue is not a problem which is a pretty great situation to be in, but I dont think just because you can have it paid for that it should change the need to have one.

In the end you are still young, im 30 and im thinking of doing all of this in a couple years! theres no rush it will always be there and the work experience you stack up will be invaluable with or without an MBA.

[wj4]

I'm going to an MBA school in the spring. If for nothing, it will be for my own interest as I always have a huge interest in the business side of things. Funny being that my BS and MS are in the science field, haha.

[quiksi]

I am 26 and in my 2nd year of MBA school at UT Austin (McCombs) - I have a technical undergrad degree and work in IT, and I do feel like my MBA coursework has at least indirectly helped my work performance significantly.

My recommendation is that you attend an information session at a ranked school (I genuinely believe "brand" matters for MBA programs) and sit in on one or two classes to see if it's what you are interested in learning. It's certainly not a small financial or time investment.

[wuzupfoo]

Originally Posted by quiksi

My recommendation is that you attend an information session at a ranked school (I genuinely believe "brand" matters for MBA programs) and sit in on one or two classes to see if it's what you are interested in learning. It's certainly not a small financial or time investment.

Totally agree for the amount of cash you put out the brand is huge.. theres diminishing returns in going to a random school for a cookie cutter MBA.

[TMNT]

I agree...consistent top 25 program or bust. Not worth it otherwise to me.

[BTM]

Pickup the Economist's latest edition of "Which MBA?"

I did yesterday and it's very good. First one I've bought because it's $20 but definitely worth the coin for the articles. It's not gonna answer all your questions and may even provoke new ones, but it will get you thinking about the right types of decisions associated with whether or not an MBA is the right thing for you and if it is, what considerations to take when selecting programs to apply to.

Spoiler - University of Chicago Booth School of Business #1 worldwide

[Trijicon]

It will only help your career. I received mine and immediately brought me an additional 40K as I transitioned to a new job. My company sees an MBA equivalent to someone with 3 years experience (this carries over to their payroll bracket).

Also, with the amount of unemployed out there, the hiring pools have become A LOT more competitive. Tons of seasoned, experienced, and educated people out there looking for jobs.

An MBA will make you more competitive in any industry and/or market.

Do it!

[Edward]

Thanks for all the advice guys. It kind of reinforces the question marks in my head.

If I were staying in LA, I only want to go to Anderson @ UCLA or at the very least, Marshall USC. Otherwise I don't want to spend the money or time. I'd obviously try Stanford or Haas up north since I can easily work in our SF office while doing that for 2 yrs, but the issue there is that both those schools are intensely competitive. Still worth a shot since my work experience is very solid.

I just get a bit anxious thinking about the admittance process. My good friend just got into Chicago and another friend who's currently undergrad at Stanford just got accepted to HBS and she's only 21 with zero work experience except a rotational internship at Credit Suisse ibank. I know a dude in my firm who just got his ass fired and likely barred from the SEC for life and he got into Anderson with a 530 GMAT which is unspeakably awful. I just don't get how that whole thing works out so it makes it a bit weary to go through the process.

It is only my opinion, but I too think that name brand matters tremendously. I heard that people in Europe don't even know wtf USC is, while everyone knows what UCLA is. They're not that different to us here in terms of prestige (though UCLA is a bit higher). I don't want it for the paper, I want it for the alumni network and the quality of the peers who I will spend 2+ yrs with in classes. I obviously would like to be surrounded by unbelievably interesting and driven people who will lead business in the future.
I kind of see it the way I see law school. If you didn't go tier 1 or tier 2 at worst, what chance do you have in getting a very good job? people from Harvard are getting deferred til as far out as 2012 today. Retarded jobs market going on right now.

[xtac]

Skip the mba, take the money you would spend and do a startup.

Use your dads network, and make it work.

and get your mba from http://personalmba.com/

[dth656]

i wouldn't use those data points as representative examplees for the admissions process. unlike engineering or other grad schools, where GPA and GRE scores are primary factors, b-school admissions are more subjective. imho, they try and go for a diverse class, and so you'll see all kinds of anomalies (i.e. one girl in my class had a sub-600 GMAT, but came from the fashion industry--compared to the rest of 700+ indian ethnicity engineer types, it was still easier for her to get in because it was a very atypical background). that being said, you'll have smart people and morons at every school. a few months ago, i had to interview a girl from stanford gsb for a position on our team (corporate strategy)---she was abysmal.

also, if you want to work at goldman sachs or morgan stanley or mckinsey, then you better have a tier 1 school. if you are more open to post b-school options, then even a tier 3 school will provide you w/ almost the same education.

Originally Posted by Edward

Thanks for all the advice guys. It kind of reinforces the question marks in my head.

If I were staying in LA, I only want to go to Anderson @ UCLA or at the very least, Marshall USC. Otherwise I don't want to spend the money or time. I'd obviously try Stanford or Haas up north since I can easily work in our SF office while doing that for 2 yrs, but the issue there is that both those schools are intensely competitive. Still worth a shot since my work experience is very solid.

I just get a bit anxious thinking about the admittance process. My good friend just got into Chicago and another friend who's currently undergrad at Stanford just got accepted to HBS and she's only 21 with zero work experience except a rotational internship at Credit Suisse ibank. I know a dude in my firm who just got his ass fired and likely barred from the SEC for life and he got into Anderson with a 530 GMAT which is unspeakably awful. I just don't get how that whole thing works out so it makes it a bit weary to go through the process.

It is only my opinion, but I too think that name brand matters tremendously. I heard that people in Europe don't even know wtf USC is, while everyone knows what UCLA is. They're not that different to us here in terms of prestige (though UCLA is a bit higher). I don't want it for the paper, I want it for the alumni network and the quality of the peers who I will spend 2+ yrs with in classes. I obviously would like to be surrounded by unbelievably interesting and driven people who will lead business in the future.
I kind of see it the way I see law school. If you didn't go tier 1 or tier 2 at worst, what chance do you have in getting a very good job? people from Harvard are getting deferred til as far out as 2012 today. Retarded jobs market going on right now.

[Trijicon]

Originally Posted by dth656

also, if you want to work at goldman sachs or morgan stanley or mckinsey, then you better have a tier 1 school. if you are more open to post b-school options, then even a tier 3 school will provide you w/ almost the same education.

+100

This is true. It depends on what industry you want to end up in. Wall Street? then Tier 1 is the only option. But healthcare for example Tier 3 is more than enough.