[nawky]

So i was doing some serious research on potential first cars i will be getting within the next week or 2.

I came here to get feedback on some of the cars im interested in because i lurked these forums a bit and the people seem to be genuine and not to biased

Of course there are some preferences and a budget. Unfort.. i can only spend like 4k

looking for something with

handling

ok power

ok to well mileage

Originally i was going to go with the a4 but my friend tells me there is this driving experience with the that cannot be imitated. if i go with the a4 or jetta i was considering and miss out on it id be pretty upset. ( i am in no rush to make a impulse purchase) I guess i will have to test drive the cars but id If anybody has a comments on these cars please post.

b5 a4

mk4 jetta

e36 3 series

[Year's_End]

If you're looking at german cars, don't go in expecting anything special in terms of a driving experience when your budget is limited to 4k. I would much rather put that towards a used Japanese performance model from Honda instead.

With that money, you're looking at a german car with around 200-250k miles, or a japanese car around 100-150k. I'd try to get something as close to 100k as possible.

[Year's_End]

I'd be looking for cars like this if I were you:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

If the japanese image puts you off, you should know that they're going to be way more reliable with the mileage range you're going to be searching in, plus they're fun, light, and have a massive aftermarket selection (with tasteful selections). I used to have a Civic, and while it obv wasn't anything like my E92, I loved it to death and had a shit ton of fun with it. I did stuff with that car that I'd never try with my 335i.

I'm just saying that you should check out things other than Audi, BMW, and VW.

[Year's_End]

I'mma keep posting up suggestions.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

[Year's_End]

http://www.insideline.com/acura/inte...than-5000.html

From Insideline's Josh Jacquot:
The 10 Best Used Cars for Less Than $5,000


"There are three things you need to know about this list. First, as soon as the unit cost of automotive fun starts to look too good to be true, it probably is. You're not going to get a $10,000 car for $5,000. Second, cars this capable of driving goodness with sub-$5,000 price tags have at least 100,000 miles — universally. Get over it. Finally, all of them — with careful shopping and plenty of patience — are still worth it.

We did most of our shopping using Auto Trader to gauge pricing and eBay Motors to collect actual transaction prices. Doing so illustrated the dramatic regional price differences. Roadsters like the Miata, for example, go for more in the Sun Belt in the summer than the Rust Belt in the winter. So expect these swings and take your time to find the right car. It's out there.

1994-2001 Acura Integra GS-R
Here's what's great about Acura's Integra GS-R: It's got an engine with a ripping 8,000-rpm redline and a transmission that keeps the engine in the meat of its big-cam-lobe power band when shifted at redline. Well, that, and it's one of the best-handling front-drivers ever made. It's also a practical hatchback with rear seats that will allow it to haul four people in a pinch.

Finding a stock GS-R in good shape is no easy task these days, as most have either been abused, neglected or received the full rice-rocket treatment complete with polished muffler and painted interior bits. Your best bet here is to find a seller who doesn't know the difference between GS-R and OCD.

If it were our money: GS-Rs remained relatively unchanged over their eight-year run in the U.S., so we'd buy the lowest-mileage, most stock car we could find. A little tuning will seriously awaken the GS-R's engine. We'd add Type R valvetrain components, a more efficient intake and exhaust header and have Hondata retune it all to work together.

Online sources: Acura Integra history, Honda-Tech (use Integra-specific forums), Club Integra

1985-'94 Chevrolet Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
If your version of automotive fun leans more toward burnouts and powerslides than country back roads, then GM's F-body twins might just be your best bet. You need not bother with anything but V8 power. Two options were available in the third-generation cars: a 5.0-liter or 5.7-liter V8. However, the larger and more powerful L98 5.7-liter TPI engine, which was available from 1987-2001, was only available with an automatic transmission.

Fourth-generation cars ('93 and newer) offer a far stiffer chassis and more powerful LT1 engine — this time with a six-speed manual transmission. Power rating for 1993 and '94 models was 275 horsepower and 325 pound-feet for both Camaro and Firebird — enough to make you forget about your bad taste with sheer pushrod joy. And you might want to avoid T-top cars and convertibles of any vintage. Rattle traps for sure.

There's no shortage of well-maintained third-generation cars available for far less than our price cap. Finding a fourth-generation is more difficult, but thanks to their abundance, success is just a matter of time (and taste). We found several on eBay that had closed in the last month.

If it were our money: In the Camaro/Firebird world, the LT1 is only one step away from nirvana (LS1) and that's exactly where our money would go: the lowest-mileage fourth-generation Camaro coupe we could find. And a new set of rear tires.

Online sources: Chevy Camaro history, Third Gen, LS1/LT1 Forums

1984-'96 Chevrolet Corvette
The C4 Vette, which doesn't age as well as many cars on this list, is here because it's an impressive value at this price. You get an independent suspension with lightweight aluminum bits, huge wheels and tires, real brakes and, if you buy the right year, at least 245 hp.

Finding a C4 Corvette that merits parting ways with $5 grand is going to require patience. Most are junk and all require prudent shopping and a willingness to do some wrenching. One completed C4 eBay listing said the subject of the auction was "rougher than three nights in a South Georgia jail." It sold for $3,150, but it had 123,000 miles on the clock and its interior probably smelled like the men's room in a South Georgia jail. We found running examples for as little as $2,500. And there were plenty that sold for far less than our price cap.

Vetteheads will tell you that the convertible reappeared in 1987, but smart Vetteheads will tell you to avoid them like moldy milk. Structural rigidity is so bad, the doors open on the larger bumps. No joke.

If it were our money: Forget about any car before 1989. That's when the ZF six-speed manual transmission was introduced. Before that, the manual transmission option was a four-speed with electronic overdrive. And it sucked, so don't bother. The L98 made 245 hp beginning in 1988 — the same year the Vette got massive 275/40ZR17 rubber.

Online sources: Chevy Corvette history, Corvette Forum

1986-2004 Ford Mustang
Let's not forget the Ford Mustang — the car to buy if you prefer a V8 rumble to drown out the rattles from your cheap ride's aging interior. We're starting with the 1986 model year because that's the first year the 5.0-liter V8 was fuel-injected (third-generation Mustangs began production in 1979). The next major generational change didn't happen until 1994 and ended in 2004, but you'll find few cars newer than the 2000 model year for less than $5 grand.

Virtually any online classified source will yield an abundance of Mustang-powered rubber-smoking, mullet-flapping good times. And it can all be yours for less than $5 large.

Four body styles were available with the V8: hardtop, T-top (up to 1993 only) and convertible. There was even an unloved but cool notchback made famous by the California Highway Patrol and sold to the public throughout the '80s and early '90s. It died with the Fox body after 1993.

If it were our money: The clean lines of the 1987-'93 LX — mercifully free of the GT's side skirts, spoiler and general tackiness — are still easy on the eyes today. The LX came with the same 5.0-liter, 225-hp engine found in the GT. These cars could run high 13-second quarter-mile times in their day, which was quick enough to take anything but a Buick Grand National. We'll take ours with a five-speed: no T-tops, no ragtops.

Online sources: Ford Mustang history, Ford Mustang Forums, Mustang Heaven, Mustang Works

1997-2001 Honda Prelude
Obscure, unpopular, underrated and overpriced. That's how the automotive press viewed Honda's last Prelude. But it's the underrated part that earns the Prelude a spot on this list. You'll find few reviews of this car that criticized its dynamics. In its final generation, the Prelude utilized a 2.2-liter four-cylinder (H22) making either 195 hp (1997-'98) or 200 hp (1999-2001). A five-speed manual transmission was standard and a four-speed auto was optional.

Most Honda Preludes have fallen victim to the same group of miscreants who are attracted to the Integra. Sorting through the masses (and there are plenty on Auto Trader) will take some time and probably some travel. You might have to blow the budget by a few hundred bucks to get the right car.

If it were our money: The right car, in this case, is the SH trim level, which utilized Honda's magical Active Torque Transfer System (ATTS) to bias drive torque to the outside wheel in a turn. It's the best limited-slip differential of the day. SH Preludes are mixed in at random with base models in the classifieds so some owners might not know what they have. Be sure you drive the car hard around a corner — you'll know if ATTS is present and functional immediately. Oh, and of course ours would have three pedals.

Online sources: Honda Prelude history, Honda-Tech (use Prelude-specific forums), Prelude Online

1990-'98 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T/GSX and Eagle Talon TSi/TSi AWD
Bring on the boost. The Diamond Star Motors twins — Mitsubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon — came with turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-4 engines and optional all-wheel drive wrapped in a striking two-door hatchback body. Two generations of these cars were produced over a nine-year run. First-generation cars were rated at 195 hp while second-generation models made 210 hp.

Our search produced several well-maintained second-generation cars with fewer than 100,000 miles inside the price cap. A few were convertibles, which suck. Tops are expensive to replace and chassis stiffness is lost. First-gen cars are abundant and cheap, while Talons are even cheaper, just because fewer people know what the hell an Eagle is.

If it were our money: Most enthusiasts prefer the 1G cars for their lighter weight and bigger stock turbo, which could easily make more power than the T25 on 2G cars. However, with nice 1G DSMs becoming increasingly scarce, a well-maintained 2G (which has the desirable double-wishbone front suspension) might be a smart choice. We'd buy an AWD model with a five-speed and the optional rear limited-slip differential.

Online sources: Mitsubishi Eclipse history, DSM Forums, Club DSM, Road Race Engineering

1990-2000 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Mazda's Miata is the best-handling, most communicative and most engaging car on this list. It's also the slowest. But if a Camaro makes the list for its engine, then the Miata should for its chassis. Still in production as the third-generation MX-5 Miata (although the Miata model name went away briefly when the third-generation model was introduced), this little roadster proves that the right sports car formula has real staying power.

First-generation (1990-'97) cars are readily available for well under $5 grand, while only the first two years of the second generation make the price cut, and cheap high-mileage second-gen cars are out there. Either way, the closer you get to the price cap, the less likely you'll be to wind up with a car that needs a new top, which can cost $800.

If it were our money: The more powerful (140-hp) second-gen Miatas are better overall cars, but we still want the purity of a 1.8-liter first-gen with a five-speed and Torsen limited-slip differential. Avoid the automatic tranny at all costs — it's the only way to steal the soul of a Miata.

Online sources: Mazda Miata history, MX-5 Miata Net

1989-'98 Nissan 240SX
Nissan's 240SX is a great chassis in search of a real engine. Here's what you get: Light weight, rear-drive, sophisticated rear suspension, great steering and a low cost of entry — a car modeled on the Porsche 944, in fact. Unfortunately, Nissan wimped out and offered the 240 with only a slightly improved version of the 2.4-liter inline-4 from its trucks.

But these 240s are the drifter's car of choice, so many cars have undergone a swap to the more powerful and easily modified 2.0-liter SR20DET turbo engine that was fitted to the car in the Japanese market.

Two generations of the 240SX, S13 and S14 in Nissan-speak, spanned a nine-year sales run in the U.S. Later versions (1995-'98) make slightly more power and offer only a coupe body, while first-gen cars were available as a coupe, a hatch and a convertible.

If it were our money: A properly swapped SR20 car will be hard to come by on this budget, so we'd buy the nicest stock-engine five-speed car we could afford and save our bucks for doing the swap right.

Online sources: 240SX Org, S-Chassis, Jim Wolf Technology

1998-2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
There are lots of reasons to buy a Subaru 2.5 RS, but ours is simple: It's the only car on this list that makes us want to drive on anything but a perfectly smooth road. And it's the only one that's any good at it.

The RS only made 165 hp, but that's plenty in the gravel or snow. Based on the simple and nearly indestructible GC Impreza platform, the 2.5 RS's appeal was largely a result of its simplicity. Struts front and rear make suspension upgrades to the exceptionally stiff chassis quick and easy. The first two model years were coupe only, but a sedan became available in 2000.

We found high-mileage (150,000-plus) 2.5 RS models starting at around $4,500 on Auto Trader. We'd probably spend a bit more to get fewer miles. Thanks to its relative anonymity and desirability in snowy climates, finding an unmolested 2.5 RS will be easier than many other cars on this list.

If it were our money: Our 2.5 RS would be a 2000 model for two reasons. That's the first year of the sedan, which increases practicality without a significant decrease in performance. Plus, beginning in 1999, all RSs got the SOHC engine, which is smoother and makes a bit more torque.

Online sources: RS25, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club

1991-'95 Toyota MR2
With the advantages of relatively low weight, excellent weight distribution, a low polar moment of inertia and ample power (from turbo models), the second-generation Toyota MR2 deserves its spot on this list. Base models used a Camry engine, which means they accelerate like, well, a Camry.

Realistically, the only turbo model that fits our budget is a beat '91 with T-tops, which you probably won't want. Fact is, these cars have appreciated in value lately, with the turbo models leading the way. But look earnestly and you'll find a decent base car with high mileage. The upside to having Camry power, of course, is Camry durability and reliability — the powertrain is solid well past 100,000 miles.

Ninety percent of these things were equipped with T-tops so they'll be hard to avoid, but finding a fixed-roof car is still more desirable. Chassis rigidity is better, and replacing missing panels is expensive.

If it were our money: A high-mileage base car with service records is probably worth more than $5 grand, but we found an undeniably appealing base car fitted with a 3.0-liter V6 from the Lexus ES 300. Go ahead, tell us that doesn't sound like fun."

[nawky]

hm thanks for the replies. but what i came up with are cars with like 90k-170k for 4k. Im slightly considering a 4 door integra gsr.

[Artmasterx]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

1998-2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
There are lots of reasons to buy a Subaru 2.5 RS, but ours is simple: It's the only car on this list that makes us want to drive on anything but a perfectly smooth road. And it's the only one that's any good at it.

The RS only made 165 hp, but that's plenty in the gravel or snow. Based on the simple and nearly indestructible GC Impreza platform, the 2.5 RS's appeal was largely a result of its simplicity. Struts front and rear make suspension upgrades to the exceptionally stiff chassis quick and easy. The first two model years were coupe only, but a sedan became available in 2000.

We found high-mileage (150,000-plus) 2.5 RS models starting at around $4,500 on Auto Trader. We'd probably spend a bit more to get fewer miles. Thanks to its relative anonymity and desirability in snowy climates, finding an unmolested 2.5 RS will be easier than many other cars on this list.

If it were our money: Our 2.5 RS would be a 2000 model for two reasons. That's the first year of the sedan, which increases practicality without a significant decrease in performance. Plus, beginning in 1999, all RSs got the SOHC engine, which is smoother and makes a bit more torque.

Online sources: RS25, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club

This one.

[JoosyJoos]

E30 325i? Oodles of fun and not enough power to really get you in trouble... Insurance is pretty cheap too.

[ianbiz]

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

E30 325i? Oodles of fun and not enough power to really get you in trouble... Insurance is pretty cheap too.

And you can fix everything with either a hammer or a screw driver.

Everyone guy should have a E30 for a first car.

[JoosyJoos]

Originally Posted by ianbiz

And you can fix everything with either a hammer or a screw driver.

Everyone guy should have a E30 for a first car.

Don't forget duct tape--- always clutch.

If you're looking for reliability it may not be the best choice admittedly but if you want to learn about cars they are easy to work on and parts are cheap.

[nawky]

Im considering all types of cars... If insurance is easy then possibly even an 01 stang gt.

But im really curious about that "connected feeling" people talk about when they drive .


Of course my preference is the an e46 but im not sure my budget can find one in good condition and 5 spd. The only reason the a4 is in the equation is because it comes with the stock turbo. I know some many people with 1.8ts i just like the modability and the uniqueness of the engine(i.e the sound it makes when its working hard).

But anyway i want to know everybodies opinions on e30 vs e36/e46

Has anybody driven the 98-01 audi a4?

[Year's_End]

You're probably gonna be making plenty use of those tools in the first few months of ownership if you decide to get an e30.

[ragingclue]

Integra

[Artmasterx]

Originally Posted by nawky

Im considering all types of cars... If insurance is easy then possibly even an 01 stang gt.

But im really curious about that "connected feeling" people talk about when they drive .


Of course my preference is the an e46 but im not sure my budget can find one in good condition and 5 spd. The only reason the a4 is in the equation is because it comes with the stock turbo. I know some many people with 1.8ts i just like the modability and the uniqueness of the engine(i.e the sound it makes when its working hard).

But anyway i want to know everybodies opinions on e30 vs e36/e46

Has anybody driven the 98-01 audi a4?

I will get practical here for you...

If you only have $4k to spend on a car you really need to think about how much you can afford to spend on maintenance. If you buy an older German car, you should probably plan to spend at least $500 per year on maintenance, it may not be that much, but then again it may be more. If you can do heavy maintenance yourself, it would be cheaper.

You will not get a e46 for $4k, and if you do it will probably be a money pit because something is wrong (or has high enough mileage that something will soon). You will also be more likely to run into electrical/computer issues with later models that are much more difficult to fix yourself, and thus can be very costly. Maybe you will get lucky though...

If you want a reliable car with a greater chance of having cheaper maintenance, then you should be really looking into the older cars that have very good high-mileage maintenance records (honda, toyota, subaru, maybe ford, maybe hyundai).

With regards to the B5 A4, my brother had the 3.2 quattro and really liked it, but did have to spend a decent amount of money on maintenance. I think the Audi's of that era were possibly more prone to failure than current models. Also, you may think the stock turbo is a good thing, but in a high-mileage car with unknown history, it is essentially a time bomb. If it hasn't been taken care of well, then the turbo may go... if you lucky it may only cost $500-1000, and if it takes the engine with it you basically have lost the car.

Unless you want headaches, find a model with good high-mileage reliability history, with a NA engine, and one where someone can show you a lot of maintenance history. That will give you best chance of enjoying your purchase.

When you can afford a $10k car and potential repairs bills of $1000, then get something German or that you will enjoy more.

Decide what's a true priority for you and then don't let others on hear sway you away from what's important. The majority of people on here are not as cost-constrained as you appear, thus some of the opinions are a bit biases toward more costly options than you may want (either outright or in maintenance).

Hope this helps.

[mtla4]

Cheap japanese car Mazda Protege, Sentra etc. Don't bother spending much on a car that will give you problems. Drive something cheap until you can afford bother. Easier said then done but been there done that I've learned my lesson.

[TK-421]

E30

[ianbiz]

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

Don't forget duct tape--- always clutch.

If you're looking for reliability it may not be the best choice admittedly but if you want to learn about cars they are easy to work on and parts are cheap.

Agreed. parts are cheap, and fellow owners are always wanting to help others. Plus there is a TON of info online.

[nawky]

thanks for the replies,


Im def considering the e30 ive found 2 in a good enough condition. Rather have the alil more comfy /luxury but if the e30 seems completely livable than im gona opt for it if the handling is more crisp than the e36... Still considering the integra/jetta last choice will be an a4 or gti i can get for cheap.

[ki__]

1985-'94 Chevrolet Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
If your version of automotive fun leans more toward burnouts and powerslides than country back roads, then GM's F-body twins might just be your best bet. You need not bother with anything but V8 power. Two options were available in the third-generation cars: a 5.0-liter or 5.7-liter V8. However, the larger and more powerful L98 5.7-liter TPI engine, which was available from 1987-2001, was only available with an automatic transmission.

Fourth-generation cars ('93 and newer) offer a far stiffer chassis and more powerful LT1 engine — this time with a six-speed manual transmission. Power rating for 1993 and '94 models was 275 horsepower and 325 pound-feet for both Camaro and Firebird — enough to make you forget about your bad taste with sheer pushrod joy. And you might want to avoid T-top cars and convertibles of any vintage. Rattle traps for sure.

There's no shortage of well-maintained third-generation cars available for far less than our price cap. Finding a fourth-generation is more difficult, but thanks to their abundance, success is just a matter of time (and taste). We found several on eBay that had closed in the last month.

If it were our money: In the Camaro/Firebird world, the LT1 is only one step away from nirvana (LS1) and that's exactly where our money would go: the lowest-mileage fourth-generation Camaro coupe we could find. And a new set of rear tires.

Online sources: Chevy Camaro history, Third Gen, LS1/LT1 Forums

1989-'98 Nissan 240SX
Nissan's 240SX is a great chassis in search of a real engine. Here's what you get: Light weight, rear-drive, sophisticated rear suspension, great steering and a low cost of entry — a car modeled on the Porsche 944, in fact. Unfortunately, Nissan wimped out and offered the 240 with only a slightly improved version of the 2.4-liter inline-4 from its trucks.

But these 240s are the drifter's car of choice, so many cars have undergone a swap to the more powerful and easily modified 2.0-liter SR20DET turbo engine that was fitted to the car in the Japanese market.

Two generations of the 240SX, S13 and S14 in Nissan-speak, spanned a nine-year sales run in the U.S. Later versions (1995-'98) make slightly more power and offer only a coupe body, while first-gen cars were available as a coupe, a hatch and a convertible.

If it were our money: A properly swapped SR20 car will be hard to come by on this budget, so we'd buy the nicest stock-engine five-speed car we could afford and save our bucks for doing the swap right.

Online sources: 240SX Org, S-Chassis, Jim Wolf Technology


These two would be good. just my 2 cents

[Augenbrauezug]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

You're probably gonna be making plenty use of those tools in the first few months of ownership if you decide to get an e30.

QFT!!!!!

Nik has spewed knowledge all over this thread.

I'd recommend following the advice and getting a Honda/Acura, and save up until you can get the BMW, or whatever that you want. A friend of mine had a similar budget, I tried to tell him to get a Japanese car but he was dead set on getting a BMW. He has a 325e, and it's an awesome car, except that he has to check his fluids constantly before going out, he's got to be considerate of where he parks to avoids leaking oil in peoples driveway who might not like it, and he's always wondering when the thing is going to crap out on him. He wishes now that hed' just gone ahead with something more reliable now.

^^ Awesome examples above, Nissan and classic American are great too. I had a 1995 Sentra, sure it wasn't any fun, didn't look cool, but it never gave me a problem and got good gas mileage.

[Augenbrauezug]

Originally Posted by nawky

thanks for the replies,


Im def considering the e30 ive found 2 in a good enough condition. Rather have the alil more comfy /luxury but if the e30 seems completely livable than im gona opt for it if the handling is more crisp than the e36... Still considering the integra/jetta last choice will be an a4 or gti i can get for cheap.

I'd STRONGLY suggest reconsidering.

"Good enough" condition seems fishy to me. I'm not calling you fishy, just think about what your saying for a second. Seems to me your more trying to justify what you want. I'd opt for something that was in reliable condition!

[Augenbrauezug]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

http://www.insideline.com/acura/inte...than-5000.html

From Insideline's Josh Jacquot:
The 10 Best Used Cars for Less Than $5,000


"There are three things you need to know about this list. First, as soon as the unit cost of automotive fun starts to look too good to be true, it probably is. You're not going to get a $10,000 car for $5,000. Second, cars this capable of driving goodness with sub-$5,000 price tags have at least 100,000 miles — universally. Get over it. Finally, all of them — with careful shopping and plenty of patience — are still worth it.

We did most of our shopping using Auto Trader to gauge pricing and eBay Motors to collect actual transaction prices. Doing so illustrated the dramatic regional price differences. Roadsters like the Miata, for example, go for more in the Sun Belt in the summer than the Rust Belt in the winter. So expect these swings and take your time to find the right car. It's out there.

1994-2001 Acura Integra GS-R
Here's what's great about Acura's Integra GS-R: It's got an engine with a ripping 8,000-rpm redline and a transmission that keeps the engine in the meat of its big-cam-lobe power band when shifted at redline. Well, that, and it's one of the best-handling front-drivers ever made. It's also a practical hatchback with rear seats that will allow it to haul four people in a pinch.

Finding a stock GS-R in good shape is no easy task these days, as most have either been abused, neglected or received the full rice-rocket treatment complete with polished muffler and painted interior bits. Your best bet here is to find a seller who doesn't know the difference between GS-R and OCD.

If it were our money: GS-Rs remained relatively unchanged over their eight-year run in the U.S., so we'd buy the lowest-mileage, most stock car we could find. A little tuning will seriously awaken the GS-R's engine. We'd add Type R valvetrain components, a more efficient intake and exhaust header and have Hondata retune it all to work together.

Online sources: Acura Integra history, Honda-Tech (use Integra-specific forums), Club Integra

1985-'94 Chevrolet Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
If your version of automotive fun leans more toward burnouts and powerslides than country back roads, then GM's F-body twins might just be your best bet. You need not bother with anything but V8 power. Two options were available in the third-generation cars: a 5.0-liter or 5.7-liter V8. However, the larger and more powerful L98 5.7-liter TPI engine, which was available from 1987-2001, was only available with an automatic transmission.

Fourth-generation cars ('93 and newer) offer a far stiffer chassis and more powerful LT1 engine — this time with a six-speed manual transmission. Power rating for 1993 and '94 models was 275 horsepower and 325 pound-feet for both Camaro and Firebird — enough to make you forget about your bad taste with sheer pushrod joy. And you might want to avoid T-top cars and convertibles of any vintage. Rattle traps for sure.

There's no shortage of well-maintained third-generation cars available for far less than our price cap. Finding a fourth-generation is more difficult, but thanks to their abundance, success is just a matter of time (and taste). We found several on eBay that had closed in the last month.

If it were our money: In the Camaro/Firebird world, the LT1 is only one step away from nirvana (LS1) and that's exactly where our money would go: the lowest-mileage fourth-generation Camaro coupe we could find. And a new set of rear tires.

Online sources: Chevy Camaro history, Third Gen, LS1/LT1 Forums

1984-'96 Chevrolet Corvette
The C4 Vette, which doesn't age as well as many cars on this list, is here because it's an impressive value at this price. You get an independent suspension with lightweight aluminum bits, huge wheels and tires, real brakes and, if you buy the right year, at least 245 hp.

Finding a C4 Corvette that merits parting ways with $5 grand is going to require patience. Most are junk and all require prudent shopping and a willingness to do some wrenching. One completed C4 eBay listing said the subject of the auction was "rougher than three nights in a South Georgia jail." It sold for $3,150, but it had 123,000 miles on the clock and its interior probably smelled like the men's room in a South Georgia jail. We found running examples for as little as $2,500. And there were plenty that sold for far less than our price cap.

Vetteheads will tell you that the convertible reappeared in 1987, but smart Vetteheads will tell you to avoid them like moldy milk. Structural rigidity is so bad, the doors open on the larger bumps. No joke.

If it were our money: Forget about any car before 1989. That's when the ZF six-speed manual transmission was introduced. Before that, the manual transmission option was a four-speed with electronic overdrive. And it sucked, so don't bother. The L98 made 245 hp beginning in 1988 — the same year the Vette got massive 275/40ZR17 rubber.

Online sources: Chevy Corvette history, Corvette Forum

1986-2004 Ford Mustang
Let's not forget the Ford Mustang — the car to buy if you prefer a V8 rumble to drown out the rattles from your cheap ride's aging interior. We're starting with the 1986 model year because that's the first year the 5.0-liter V8 was fuel-injected (third-generation Mustangs began production in 1979). The next major generational change didn't happen until 1994 and ended in 2004, but you'll find few cars newer than the 2000 model year for less than $5 grand.

Virtually any online classified source will yield an abundance of Mustang-powered rubber-smoking, mullet-flapping good times. And it can all be yours for less than $5 large.

Four body styles were available with the V8: hardtop, T-top (up to 1993 only) and convertible. There was even an unloved but cool notchback made famous by the California Highway Patrol and sold to the public throughout the '80s and early '90s. It died with the Fox body after 1993.

If it were our money: The clean lines of the 1987-'93 LX — mercifully free of the GT's side skirts, spoiler and general tackiness — are still easy on the eyes today. The LX came with the same 5.0-liter, 225-hp engine found in the GT. These cars could run high 13-second quarter-mile times in their day, which was quick enough to take anything but a Buick Grand National. We'll take ours with a five-speed: no T-tops, no ragtops.

Online sources: Ford Mustang history, Ford Mustang Forums, Mustang Heaven, Mustang Works

1997-2001 Honda Prelude
Obscure, unpopular, underrated and overpriced. That's how the automotive press viewed Honda's last Prelude. But it's the underrated part that earns the Prelude a spot on this list. You'll find few reviews of this car that criticized its dynamics. In its final generation, the Prelude utilized a 2.2-liter four-cylinder (H22) making either 195 hp (1997-'98) or 200 hp (1999-2001). A five-speed manual transmission was standard and a four-speed auto was optional.

Most Honda Preludes have fallen victim to the same group of miscreants who are attracted to the Integra. Sorting through the masses (and there are plenty on Auto Trader) will take some time and probably some travel. You might have to blow the budget by a few hundred bucks to get the right car.

If it were our money: The right car, in this case, is the SH trim level, which utilized Honda's magical Active Torque Transfer System (ATTS) to bias drive torque to the outside wheel in a turn. It's the best limited-slip differential of the day. SH Preludes are mixed in at random with base models in the classifieds so some owners might not know what they have. Be sure you drive the car hard around a corner — you'll know if ATTS is present and functional immediately. Oh, and of course ours would have three pedals.

Online sources: Honda Prelude history, Honda-Tech (use Prelude-specific forums), Prelude Online

1990-'98 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T/GSX and Eagle Talon TSi/TSi AWD
Bring on the boost. The Diamond Star Motors twins — Mitsubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon — came with turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-4 engines and optional all-wheel drive wrapped in a striking two-door hatchback body. Two generations of these cars were produced over a nine-year run. First-generation cars were rated at 195 hp while second-generation models made 210 hp.

Our search produced several well-maintained second-generation cars with fewer than 100,000 miles inside the price cap. A few were convertibles, which suck. Tops are expensive to replace and chassis stiffness is lost. First-gen cars are abundant and cheap, while Talons are even cheaper, just because fewer people know what the hell an Eagle is.

If it were our money: Most enthusiasts prefer the 1G cars for their lighter weight and bigger stock turbo, which could easily make more power than the T25 on 2G cars. However, with nice 1G DSMs becoming increasingly scarce, a well-maintained 2G (which has the desirable double-wishbone front suspension) might be a smart choice. We'd buy an AWD model with a five-speed and the optional rear limited-slip differential.

Online sources: Mitsubishi Eclipse history, DSM Forums, Club DSM, Road Race Engineering

1990-2000 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Mazda's Miata is the best-handling, most communicative and most engaging car on this list. It's also the slowest. But if a Camaro makes the list for its engine, then the Miata should for its chassis. Still in production as the third-generation MX-5 Miata (although the Miata model name went away briefly when the third-generation model was introduced), this little roadster proves that the right sports car formula has real staying power.

First-generation (1990-'97) cars are readily available for well under $5 grand, while only the first two years of the second generation make the price cut, and cheap high-mileage second-gen cars are out there. Either way, the closer you get to the price cap, the less likely you'll be to wind up with a car that needs a new top, which can cost $800.

If it were our money: The more powerful (140-hp) second-gen Miatas are better overall cars, but we still want the purity of a 1.8-liter first-gen with a five-speed and Torsen limited-slip differential. Avoid the automatic tranny at all costs — it's the only way to steal the soul of a Miata.

Online sources: Mazda Miata history, MX-5 Miata Net

1989-'98 Nissan 240SX
Nissan's 240SX is a great chassis in search of a real engine. Here's what you get: Light weight, rear-drive, sophisticated rear suspension, great steering and a low cost of entry — a car modeled on the Porsche 944, in fact. Unfortunately, Nissan wimped out and offered the 240 with only a slightly improved version of the 2.4-liter inline-4 from its trucks.

But these 240s are the drifter's car of choice, so many cars have undergone a swap to the more powerful and easily modified 2.0-liter SR20DET turbo engine that was fitted to the car in the Japanese market.

Two generations of the 240SX, S13 and S14 in Nissan-speak, spanned a nine-year sales run in the U.S. Later versions (1995-'98) make slightly more power and offer only a coupe body, while first-gen cars were available as a coupe, a hatch and a convertible.

If it were our money: A properly swapped SR20 car will be hard to come by on this budget, so we'd buy the nicest stock-engine five-speed car we could afford and save our bucks for doing the swap right.

Online sources: 240SX Org, S-Chassis, Jim Wolf Technology

1998-2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
There are lots of reasons to buy a Subaru 2.5 RS, but ours is simple: It's the only car on this list that makes us want to drive on anything but a perfectly smooth road. And it's the only one that's any good at it.

The RS only made 165 hp, but that's plenty in the gravel or snow. Based on the simple and nearly indestructible GC Impreza platform, the 2.5 RS's appeal was largely a result of its simplicity. Struts front and rear make suspension upgrades to the exceptionally stiff chassis quick and easy. The first two model years were coupe only, but a sedan became available in 2000.

We found high-mileage (150,000-plus) 2.5 RS models starting at around $4,500 on Auto Trader. We'd probably spend a bit more to get fewer miles. Thanks to its relative anonymity and desirability in snowy climates, finding an unmolested 2.5 RS will be easier than many other cars on this list.

If it were our money: Our 2.5 RS would be a 2000 model for two reasons. That's the first year of the sedan, which increases practicality without a significant decrease in performance. Plus, beginning in 1999, all RSs got the SOHC engine, which is smoother and makes a bit more torque.

Online sources: RS25, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club

1991-'95 Toyota MR2
With the advantages of relatively low weight, excellent weight distribution, a low polar moment of inertia and ample power (from turbo models), the second-generation Toyota MR2 deserves its spot on this list. Base models used a Camry engine, which means they accelerate like, well, a Camry.

Realistically, the only turbo model that fits our budget is a beat '91 with T-tops, which you probably won't want. Fact is, these cars have appreciated in value lately, with the turbo models leading the way. But look earnestly and you'll find a decent base car with high mileage. The upside to having Camry power, of course, is Camry durability and reliability — the powertrain is solid well past 100,000 miles.

Ninety percent of these things were equipped with T-tops so they'll be hard to avoid, but finding a fixed-roof car is still more desirable. Chassis rigidity is better, and replacing missing panels is expensive.

If it were our money: A high-mileage base car with service records is probably worth more than $5 grand, but we found an undeniably appealing base car fitted with a 3.0-liter V6 from the Lexus ES 300. Go ahead, tell us that doesn't sound like fun."

Skimmed this the first time, then skimmed it again.

I'd suggest against the Vette, Mustang, and Eclipse, only because I know close friends or relatives with these cars who regreted buying them, or regret owning them now.

The rest of those suggestions are great! I'd look into the mr2 if I were you, my buddy had a yellow mister2 and it was one BADASS car. Everyone was jealous of his car, granted they were more than $4000 then, it's still a badass car. They are light, tunable, and I never recall him having any problems.

I'll say it once last time, before I post more than 3 times in a row in your thread, I'd STRONGLY suggest reconsidering the e30. They are awesome cars, but doesn't seem right for what you came here asking for.