[JoeyO]

..and explain why they feel it necessary to hold their children's education hostage and use it for their own personal gain?

[passing]

i dont think you will find any chicago teachers on this forum.

[48Laws]

They'll make the lost days up at the end of the year once the strike exceeds a set number of days. Stop being so dramatic. lol

[ragingclue]

You have kids in CPS or something?

Do you have a beef with any of the specific demands they're making?

[bga23]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

You have kids in CPS or something?

I'm sorry if you do.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by bga23

I'm sorry if you do.

+65,000

I wouldn't put my kids through that system.

[smyles]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

+65,000

I wouldn't put my kids through that system.

Is it THAT bad? Just curious.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by smyles

Is it THAT bad? Just curious.

I guess it depends, but the system is broke as fuck. Also the kids are broke as fuck because the parents overtly don't give a shit. They have a high attrition rate (near half) and something like <10% will have a bachelor's by 25 and <40% of those who attend college after graduation will earn their degree within six years even though the national average is like 60-70%.

So yeah even if they give in to the teachers' demands, the riff raff contingent in the system is really freaking high. We can give the teachers everything they ask for, but until the urban subculture around here starts convincing parents to be parents, the system won't be fixed. And good luck ever getting that to happen.

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

but until the urban subculture around here starts convincing parents to be parents, the system won't be fixed. And good luck ever getting that to happen.

+65,001

[Maestro]

I will state that Teach are worth what they get paid and many are not getting paid enough to deal with all the crap that goes on in schools these day.

However, unions have no value in the educational system, Teacher are all highly educated and went to a four plus years of school like most everyone today and do not need someone negotiating on their behalf. The good teacher get less than they deserve so the lesser teacher can keep their jobs. If I was a good teacher I would demand not to be in the union and negotiate my own Pay and such so I can get more for doing a better job. But teacher are required to join the union they have no choose so they all get the lowest common benefit.

At one time Teacher got way less than most people and now they have better benefit than most everyone else. This is where the issue lies, we all see them getting great benefits, our taxes going up and our kid get less of an education because the majority of the bad ones are being protected by a union contract. In the end the kids are not getting the best since we protect the worse educators.

If the student in the US out performed the rest of the world and we all were making lots of money because of it, no one would be complaining about giving the better teacher more money.

As person who grew in a Union Family I will tell you the people who run the union only care about pay increase for everyone since their salary is paid by union dues which is usually a % of your pay. So a pay cut to the teachers is a pay cut to the union leaders. I never understood why my parents paid % of their income to people who could careless about them personally.

[TeRRoRiFiC35]

These teacher's main concern was the way tenure was going to be enacted.... Like most states, Illinois wants to do away with the current tenure system that allows BAD teachers to keep their jobs. They of course don't want this just like the teacher's union in NJ didn't with their spending of millions of dollars toward billboards and commercials fighting it.

If you are a teacher and want to make money, guess what, you chose the wrong profession. Want more money? Get a job at a private school.

[smyles]

Aren't teachers in private schools paid less, in general?

[bimmerfrk]

Originally Posted by Maestro

I will state that Teach are worth what they get paid and many are not getting paid enough to deal with all the crap that goes on in schools these day.

However, unions have no value in the educational system, Teacher are all highly educated and went to a four plus years of school like most everyone today and do not need someone negotiating on their behalf. The good teacher get less than they deserve so the lesser teacher can keep their jobs. If I was a good teacher I would demand not to be in the union and negotiate my own Pay and such so I can get more for doing a better job. But teacher are required to join the union they have no choose so they all get the lowest common benefit.

At one time Teacher got way less than most people and now they have better benefit than most everyone else. This is where the issue lies, we all see them getting great benefits, our taxes going up and our kid get less of an education because the majority of the bad ones are being protected by a union contract. In the end the kids are not getting the best since we protect the worse educators.

If the student in the US out performed the rest of the world and we all were making lots of money because of it, no one would be complaining about giving the better teacher more money.

As person who grew in a Union Family I will tell you the people who run the union only care about pay increase for everyone since their salary is paid by union dues which is usually a % of your pay. So a pay cut to the teachers is a pay cut to the union leaders. I never understood why my parents paid % of their income to people who could careless about them personally.

I thin that im willing to say that if the teachers take the same standardized test the kids are taking, we will not see much of a performance difference between the two groups. I guess what im saying is that teachers are dumb as shit and dont know the principals they teach. I bet if we tested them over half the teaching populace would fail or come close to it.

You cant teach kids if you don't know what your teaching.

That's my theory on why this country has a poop educational system.

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

<40% will ever get a bachelor's even though the national average is like 60-70%.

Wat! It's a lot less than that.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

Wat! It's a lot less than that.

Left out caveats that totally change what I was trying to say. Sorry about that. Will edit. That's what I get for trying to work while enjoying the Internet.

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by TeRRoRiFiC35

Want more money? Get a job at a private school.

Originally Posted by smyles

Aren't teachers in private schools paid less, in general?

Private school teachers are generally paid less, but they have a lot better environment. Fewer kids. Better resources (e.g., they don't have to pay for their own supplies). Often, less BS from the school administration. So, they might end up with more actual take home pay (and lower therapist bills).

[JoeyO]

Yea, gotta love unions. Imagine if all doctors in a hospital one day walked out the door and said they're not working this week?

Plus, the whole poor teacher thing is a thing of the past. I heard the average Chicago teacher earns $76k per year. Average per capita in Illinois and the nation is mid-40k's. That doesn't include the fact that many teachers continue to receive a decent pension paycheck and other perks when they quit working. Maybe I'm too practical, but the whole idea of paying somebody for zero amount of work in return is a concept I have a hard time grasping. Just ask GM where the practice has gotten them.

[txz4]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Yea, gotta love unions. Imagine if all doctors in a hospital one day walked out the door and said they're not working this week?

Plus, the whole poor teacher thing is a thing of the past. I heard the average Chicago teacher earns $76k per year. Average per capita in Illinois and the nation is mid-40k's. That doesn't include the fact that many teachers continue to receive a decent pension paycheck and other perks when they quit working. Maybe I'm too practical, but the whole idea of paying somebody for zero amount of work in return is a concept I have a hard time grasping. Just ask GM where the practice has gotten them.

It got GM a bailout.

Maybe 76k as in benefits and salary factored in, i had heard higher when you account for both.

I hate to say it, but generally the teaching majors i meet are morons. I know several people who couldn't pass the teaching certification tests, best part is that i have a friend working on becoming a doctor take the certification test for fun and passed easily.

Fact is, talent goes where the money goes. If their was more money, these morons would be out of a job anyhow as more qualified people take over.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by txz4

Fact is, talent goes where the money goes. If their was more money, these morons would be out of a job anyhow as more qualified people take over.

I agree, but you couldn't pay me enough to be a CPS teacher. The environment itself sucks, even if the pay is good. I wouldn't mind them getting more $ or better benefits, but the system itself needs fixing too. You can't catch flies with vinegar, and CPS is that rancid puddle of vinegar in the corner of that house in Detroit which was abandoned decades ago, which no squatters even bother to inhabit because of how nasty it is....

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by txz4

It got GM a bailout.

Maybe 76k as in benefits and salary factored in, i had heard higher when you account for both.

I hate to say it, but generally the teaching majors i meet are morons. I know several people who couldn't pass the teaching certification tests, best part is that i have a friend working on becoming a doctor take the certification test for fun and passed easily.

Fact is, talent goes where the money goes. If their was more money, these morons would be out of a job anyhow as more qualified people take over.

Generally I'd agree with the bolded part, but I actually think teachers (and generally government workers) might be an exception. They're unionized, so are not easily removed once inside. So you could have outside talent looking to get in, but you need to get the deadwood out...how do you do that when they are so well protected?

Regards,

[txz4]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Generally I'd agree with the bolded part, but I actually think teachers (and generally government workers) might be an exception. They're unionized, so are not easily removed once inside. So you could have outside talent looking to get in, but you need to get the deadwood out...how do you do that when they are so well protected?

Regards,

True, the invisible hand is all too invisible once unions are involved. As said a few posts up, the parents are really the problem here, i just don't see the system improving. Perhaps a GOOD teacher can make an impression, but at this point i feel like the area might just be too far gone.