[CirrusSR22]

Good read

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...?fullsite=true

Video:

[jlspeed29]

god I love this series of videos

[F32]

Originally Posted by jlspeed29

god I love this series of videos

Agreed.

Great vid! Thanks, OP.

[Brad335d]

Excellent video.

I have to agree the Porsche would be my pick as well.

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Brad335d

Excellent video.

I have to agree the Porsche would be my pick as well.

If money were not a factor in the decision, I'd take the F car. The sound is of that car gives me the goosebumps. If I had 100k to spend on a car, the Porsche would be in my garage. Of course, if I "only" had 65k to spend, I'd get the Z51. Catch a pattern?

I like the idea of the 911. But I haven't driven any of the cars, so who knows. It is appealing that he says the 911 is the safer option. I'm a pretty good driver, but probably not as good as I think when behind the wheel of a fast and light RWD sports car.

[P1]

I don't even need to watch the video to know I would like the Porsche!

[F1Venom]

F12 no question. Why is it even being compared against a Corvette and 911? Lol

[buildbright]

Having this past weekend drove both the 911 C4S and 911 C2S, I wonder why they picked the C4S? To me the C2S is a better car handling wise, and acceleration. Not to mention all three would have RWD to me a better comparo. Wait I know why because they recycle cars for tests.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

F12 no question. Why is it even being compared against a Corvette and 911? Lol

They're not. It's a continuation of their best driver's car segment from a few months ago. You can read their criteria for inclusion here. http://m.motortrend.com/features/per...t_drivers_car/

[F32]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

F12 no question. Why is it even being compared against a Corvette and 911? Lol

Totally. Anyone who buys a 911 or Corvette instead of an F12 is an idiot. It's a no-brainer.

[F32]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Having this past weekend drove both the 911 C4S and 911 C2S, I wonder why they picked the C4S? To me the C2S is a better car handling wise, and acceleration. Not to mention all three would have RWD to me a better comparo. Wait I know why because they recycle cars for tests.

Recycling of test cars, and for the fact that there are a LOT of people who have been brainwashed into thinking AWD > RWD.

There is not a single example where the AWD version of a RWD car, both otherwise equivalent, performs better in any metric.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Having this past weekend drove both the 911 C4S and 911 C2S, I wonder why they picked the C4S? To me the C2S is a better car handling wise, and acceleration. Not to mention all three would have RWD to me a better comparo. Wait I know why because they recycle cars for tests.

They picked the C4S because it won this years BEST DRIVER'S CAR comparo.

Ferrari didnt supply a car for that and neither did Chevy, so basically MT said, heres the winner vs the F12 and Vette, lets see what would have happened has Ferrari and Chevy sent cars. And to no surprise they still both lost. The 991 C2S also would have won since it is a little bit sharper than a C4S but either way Porsche is the winner.

Originally Posted by F32

Totally. Anyone who buys a 911 or Corvette instead of an F12 is an idiot. It's a no-brainer.

I do think in this case, money is a determining factor. But the fact that an AWD non GT 911 is a better driving car than a 500K Ferrari says a lot about the 991 platform.

Originally Posted by F32

Recycling of test cars, and for the fact that there are a LOT of people who have been brainwashed into thinking AWD > RWD.

There is not a single example where the AWD version of a RWD car, both otherwise equivalent, performs better in any metric.

Again, the C4S won best drivers car so they wanted to see how the F12 and Vette would have faired if they were available at the time.

And yes, RWD is always going to be more rewarding than AWD, except in this case AWD was better than the RWD cars it faced in best drivers car and this comparo.

[Bingobimmer]

Thanks for the video! I absolutely love how the f12 looks it is a work of art. No surprise the 911 won though. The vette is great for the money, but theres no way anyone could say no to a f12 over these 2 cars.

[Draman]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

They picked the C4S because it won this years BEST DRIVER'S CAR comparo.

Ferrari didnt supply a car for that and neither did Chevy, so basically MT said, heres the winner vs the F12 and Vette, lets see what would have happened has Ferrari and Chevy sent cars. And to no surprise they still both lost. The 991 C2S also would have won since it is a little bit sharper than a C4S but either way Porsche is the winner.



I do think in this case, money is a determining factor. But the fact that an AWD non GT 911 is a better driving car than a 500K Ferrari says a lot about the 991 platform.



Again, the C4S won best drivers car so they wanted to see how the F12 and Vette would have faired if they were available at the time.

And yes, RWD is always going to be more rewarding than AWD, except in this case AWD was better than the RWD cars it faced in best drivers car and this comparo.

Personally I don't think the C7 and C4S should be competing against the F12 and it has nothing to do with price. The F12 is a GT car, certain compromises in handling and such have been made in the pursuit of creating a more comfortable cruising type vehicle. This is even stated during the test itself. The 458 is a more direct competitor to either of these cars.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Draman

Personally I don't think the C7 and C4S should be competing against the F12 and it has nothing to do with price. The F12 is a GT car, certain compromises in handling and such have been made in the pursuit of creating a more comfortable cruising type vehicle. This is even stated during the test itself. The 458 is a more direct competitor to either of these cars.

Many would argue the 911 models, short of a GT2/3 are GT cars as well. Same for the 458 short of the Speciale.

[m3evobr]

I have to say that I was really looking forward for the Vette. Never liked the rear end, since day one, but was really happy about the specs, and Chevy position about track use and track reliability. Exactly what we need to compete with Porsche, which is the only track ready car from factory Today.
Had the chance to see it at the dealer on Friday, and less than impressed with the paint, looks, the rear is so bad that compromise the entire car.
Carbon fiber roof looked like it was made by Ray Charles, completely bumpy with several 'dings' Car also sits about 4'' from the ground, I even asked the sales man if car was on transport blocks and answer was no.
To finish the icing in the cake came the staff/ salesman attitude and treatment.
Just plain shocking. I would never spend a dime on a service/dealer like that. Plain nasty and rude.
They can keep that to the fat old farts... end of the day you get what you pay for.
Disappointing to say the least.

It's nice because a lot of Porsche guys looking forward to it are now looking into M3/4 as an alternative.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Having this past weekend drove both the 911 C4S and 911 C2S, I wonder why they picked the C4S? To me the C2S is a better car handling wise, and acceleration. Not to mention all three would have RWD to me a better comparo. Wait I know why because they recycle cars for tests.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

They picked the C4S because it won this years BEST DRIVER'S CAR comparo.

Ferrari didnt supply a car for that and neither did Chevy, so basically MT said, heres the winner vs the F12 and Vette, lets see what would have happened has Ferrari and Chevy sent cars. And to no surprise they still both lost. The 991 C2S also would have won since it is a little bit sharper than a C4S but either way Porsche is the winner.

To add to that, the 991 C2S won last years Best Driver's Car comparo.

So 991 has back to back wins against some worthy competitors.

I feel a three peat happening next year. They will most likely have the new 991 GT3.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Draman

Personally I don't think the C7 and C4S should be competing against the F12 and it has nothing to do with price. The F12 is a GT car, certain compromises in handling and such have been made in the pursuit of creating a more comfortable cruising type vehicle. This is even stated during the test itself. The 458 is a more direct competitor to either of these cars.

This was an extension of the 2013 Best Driver's Car competition. Which includes only cars that were new for that year.

458 won Best Driver's Car in 2011.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by m3evobr

I have to say that I was really looking forward for the Vette. Never liked the rear end, since day one, but was really happy about the specs, and Chevy position about track use and track reliability. Exactly what we need to compete with Porsche, which is the only track ready car from factory Today.
Had the chance to see it at the dealer on Friday, and less than impressed with the paint, looks, the rear is so bad that compromise the entire car.
Carbon fiber roof looked like it was made by Ray Charles, completely bumpy with several 'dings' Car also sits about 4'' from the ground, I even asked the sales man if car was on transport blocks and answer was no.
To finish the icing in the cake came the staff/ salesman attitude and treatment.
Just plain shocking. I would never spend a dime on a service/dealer like that. Plain nasty and rude.
They can keep that to the fat old farts... end of the day you get what you pay for.
Disappointing to say the least.

It's nice because a lot of Porsche guys looking forward to it are now looking into M3/4 as an alternative.

Stick to your porscha.

[Zeiss]

I'll take the F12 over that beetle with running shoes

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by m3evobr

I have to say that I was really looking forward for the Vette. Never liked the rear end, since day one, but was really happy about the specs, and Chevy position about track use and track reliability. Exactly what we need to compete with Porsche, which is the only track ready car from factory Today.
Had the chance to see it at the dealer on Friday, and less than impressed with the paint, looks, the rear is so bad that compromise the entire car.
Carbon fiber roof looked like it was made by Ray Charles, completely bumpy with several 'dings' Car also sits about 4'' from the ground, I even asked the sales man if car was on transport blocks and answer was no.
To finish the icing in the cake came the staff/ salesman attitude and treatment.
Just plain shocking. I would never spend a dime on a service/dealer like that. Plain nasty and rude.
They can keep that to the fat old farts... end of the day you get what you pay for.
Disappointing to say the least.

It's nice because a lot of Porsche guys looking forward to it are now looking into M3/4 as an alternative.

Domestic dealers can be the worst. The only time I was ever denied a test drive was for a Corvette.

[m3evobr]

right after I sold my RS I drove to this same dealership as they had a 60th anniversary white Z06 with all the right options, car had 800 miles.
Wanted to drive it ... DENIED.
2 days later I bought the GT2. The old fart that 'helped' me kept on calling, and I told him if he was a little bit more helpful or not so nasty to deal with I would've probably bought the car, but at that point I had the GT2 in my garage, all in all I thanked him for not letting me drive the car.