[Templar]

This might be a post for the politics section, but it could cover laws, and a few other things, so I'll just leave it here.

I've seen a lot of these on YouTube. It seems some of the guys in vids I have seen are just trying to be assholes on purpose, but some are different... Honestly, some of the comments in all the videos are the best. Videos are long, but you can skip through to the second one to see what really goes down.

Part two, they stop messing around:

[Rotorocious]

Seen these similar videos for DUI checkpoints too.
I'm all for it. Gov can back the hell off.

/tinfoil hat

[carve]

Cliffs notes for those that don't have a half hour to spare?

[grimlock]

Cringe..
He's a photojournalist or something, trying to prove that some checkpoints are illegal or whatever
Only do this if you're white and chubby and couldn't hurt a fly

[Templar]

Agree that the only people pulling this stuff off are white folks. If you're of any other race, I would advise against trying this. You should be able to if you're a legal US citizen, however it could go wrong if you get a trigger happy border patrol agent with an agenda.

Cliff notes: Guy shows up at a border patrol checkpoint, agent motions to him to roll his window down, guy just stares at the agent. Guy starts taking pictures of all the agents around his car, they direct him to the secondary lane and he complies (for some reason he does this, I've seen others where they refuse to move). He continues to take pictures and mess around with stuff in his car while they all figure out what to do. They finally decide their best option is to break the driver side window and get him out of the vehicle. They frisk him, cuff him, then conduct a search of his vehicle.

[Nate4641]

Fuck this guy and everyone like him. The look on his face when they break his window is priceless lol.

You drive up, roll window down, flash ID and go on your way. Is it really THAT freakin hard? Is YOUR time so important that these people have to deal with your attitude? They're not strip searching you, they're not destroying any of your property, they're doing their jobs. It pisses me off when this foil hat wearing assholes demonize everyone in a law enforcement uniform and just make a simple situation into an ordeal.

This guy clearly set out and made it his mission to "prove a point" or whatever on this day. I highly doubt he bought all those GoPros for anything else. Someone should have throat punched him. Upon looking at his youtube channel, yes all this guy does is set out to harass border patrol, he's an asshole.

[MidwestGolfBum]

This guy is now probably going to try to sue for something he did on a "harassment" charge. They will look at the videos that he put online, tell him he's a moron, and move on with life. This guy just proved that he is an idiot more than anything else.

As Nate said, this dude (and many others like him) are just out to harass law enforcement of some kind. They think by filming it all that they are somehow going to prove something, while all they really prove is that they are assholes.

[carve]

Originally Posted by Nate4641

Fuck this guy and everyone like him. The look on his face when they break his window is priceless lol.

You drive up, roll window down, flash ID and go on your way. Is it really THAT freakin hard? Is YOUR time so important that these people have to deal with your attitude? They're not strip searching you, they're not destroying any of your property, they're doing their jobs. It pisses me off when this foil hat wearing assholes demonize everyone in a law enforcement uniform and just make a simple situation into an ordeal.

This guy clearly set out and made it his mission to "prove a point" or whatever on this day. I highly doubt he bought all those GoPros for anything else. Someone should have throat punched him. Upon looking at his youtube channel, yes all this guy does is set out to harass border patrol, he's an asshole.

Good for him for proving a point. This is a clear 4th amendment violation, but I'm sure the court found some way to rationalize it somewhere. How does border patrol have this jurisdiction when they're not crossing the border? How is driving down the road sufficient reason to make someone a suspect in a crime? These officers are violating their oath of office, and it's one more step towards a police state.

Something similar happened to me once about 50 miles north of the border on a road that doesn't even intersect the border. The agent just stared into space with a blank face without motioning for me to stop as I rolled through at 2 mph, and absolutely flipped his shit when I didn't stop. Asked to search my car, I asked for probable cause, he said it's because I didn't stop (why should I when I'm not asked to? It could've been random stops)

[Mr Tonka]

I don't get it, what border was this? Was he leaving the country? Coming into the country? Trying to escape California?

[Nate4641]

Originally Posted by carve

Good for him for proving a point. It's ridiculous that this doesn't violate the 4th amendment. How does border patrol have this jurisdiction when they're not crossing the border? How is driving down the road sufficient reason to make someone a suspect in a crime? These officers are violating their oath of office, and it's one more step towards a police state.

Something similar happened to me once about 50 miles north of the border. The agent just stared at my car with a blank face without motioning for me to stop as I rolled through at 2 mph, and absolutely flipped his shit when I didn't. Asked to search my car, I asked for probable cause, he said it's because I didn't stop (why should I when I'm not asked to? It could've been random stops)

They have the jurisdiction because the government says they do. Just because the name is Border Patrol does not mean that they are restricted to being AT the border. It does not violate the 4th amendment because as long as you do what the other thousands of people do going through the checkpoints they aren't searching you. They also only search you when you give them probable cause such as acting out of the ordinary. Things like acting like a iltempered 5 year old and refusing to simply flash your ID, acting extremely nervous, or smelling like a brewery is out of the ordinary. Them stoping you to make sure you're not an illegal immigrant or driving under the influence is not an unreasonable search.

And yes, if you're hispanic there is a good chance they'll stop you to which people always flip about and pull the racism card. Guess what, if you're walking around as a white guy, or hispanic, or black in countries where those races aren't the norm you're going to get stopped and they'll ask to see your passport. It's happened to me in several countries on multiple continents. American's just think that if anything slows them down in their daily happenings they have the right to act like children in a toy store who aren't getting toys.

[carve]

Stopping you for no reason to check you out IS a search. They're temporarily detaining you for no reason. The 4th amendment stops at the border- not before.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I don't get it, what border was this? Was he leaving the country? Coming into the country? Trying to escape California?

It's a state border checkpoint.

Correct me if I am wrong Californians, but I believe your state has a lot of internal (greater than 50 miles away from Mexico or state borders, not sure which) "border" checkpoints for agricultural issues (in order to prevent pests being brought in and destroying the agriculture).

In some vids I have seen some are there for immigration issues as well. It's not very clear which one this is in this video because the guy never rolls his window down or says a word. Other videos I have seen the person driving explains what it is before they arrive at the checkpoint, or they actually roll the window down and say, "Sorry I'm not answering your questions, I'd like to be on my way." Then the agent tells them the purpose of the checkpoint.

In the majority of the videos I have seen, if you respectfully refuse to answer their questions or give in to their "orders," they (after ~15 minutes of wasted time) let you go on your way. Why is that? Because from state to state, they cannot stop you and detain you even if you refuse to answer the question.

I can see both sides of the story. While I certainly agree that we as citizens are under no real obligation to comply with them and their "checkpoint," if I were in that position I would simply answer the question only to save myself the time. I don't have time to deal with them and sit there for 15+ minutes twiddling my thumbs to "make a point." Or wind up dealing with someone busting in my window and detaining me for hours...

As for the "probable cause" argument, how is that determined? Usually, when you approach these stops, they ask you if you're a citizen. You do not have to answer that. What gave them the probable cause to ask a personal question? They will almost invariably say "you not answering my questions is suspicious." Me not answering is exercising my rights, the agent asking me is wrong. What was the probable cause they had to ask me such a question? I'd understand if I had a truck full of oranges or something, but driving a personal vehicle that can easily be seen in to shows no probable cause IMO.

[Mr Tonka]

While i agree with the ease of flashing an ID and going on your way. I somewhat view this as a slippery slope.

I get that the intention of violating a constitutional right was initially good and still might be at this time. But by doing this, the masses get accustomed to being checked, detained, herded if you will. Again, i understand the pressure to make things "safe" for the people, but at what expense will this "safety" come?

I don't mean to sound like i'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but this type of thing has happened before and many people were dead set against it, but the majority were complacent. Next thing they knew, the undesirables were being turned into slave labor or exterminated should they protest. And i'm not just talking about the time during WWII. Germany had slave labor camps long before the war started. Anyone deemed undesirable for any reason what so ever, were rounded up and made into slave labor.

I don't necessarily think slave labor would happen in the states, but government initiated paper checkpoints were the beginning of that movement.

On the other hand, if the US keeps circling the drain, it's not far fetched to see states pull out of the union there by creating real and valid border checkpoints and or closed off states. But that's another wonderfully fun thread in and of itself.

[Templar]

I think with this, like anything else is life, there is a right way to go about making your point and a wrong way.

Here is a different one with a different outcome (and it could have been much, much worse):

EDIT: I am all for carrying concealed, however I know in my state I must notify an officer that stops me (for any reason) that I am a permit holder and am carrying at the time of the stop. Not sure if it's the same in his state. This guy is lucky.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Templar

I think with this, like anything else is life, there is a right way to go about making your point and a wrong way.

Oh yeah, i meant to add that. The guy in the video is a jack ass and deserved what he got. Totally not the way to do it.

[edirtaynine]

Originally Posted by Templar

I think with this, like anything else is life, there is a right way to go about making your point and a wrong way.

Here is a different one with a different outcome (and it could have been much, much worse):

EDIT: I am all for carrying concealed, however I know in my state I must notify an officer that stops me (for any reason) that I am a permit holder and am carrying at the time of the stop. Not sure if it's the same in his state. This guy is lucky.

yeap. and yeap.

[Mr Tonka]

You're not required to disclose that information to any officer in FL. In fact, the instructor in the required course discouraged that kind of disclosure.

However, if they ask you during a traffic stop or something, it's wise to let them know.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

You're not required to disclose that information to any officer in FL. In fact, the instructor in the required course discouraged that kind of disclosure.

However, if they ask you during a traffic stop or something, it's wise to let them know.

I meant during a stop, when approached by an officer, it's required in my state. If you see an officer while walking and you're carrying or if you're next to one driving with the windows down, you're under no obligation to disclose it at all. Only when you are approached by an officer.

IMO, under normal circumstances I would say it is probably going to be OK if you didn't disclose it (like if you ran a stop sign and got pulled over).

In a situation like his though, where you're already acting a fool and tension is already high (to some extent), it was a bad move. Not to mention, this guy was obviously looking for trouble (as evidenced by all of his other videos on the same thing).

[Colt]

Originally Posted by carve

Cliffs notes for those that don't have a half hour to spare?

Cliff Notes:

Guy doesn't talk the whole time, acts as if hes deaf or half-retarded, maybe both. Doesn't cooperate. Takes random pictures. 2nd video comes, halfway through cops break window tell him to get out of the car. Gets handcuffed. Cops search car. Video over.

[M_Six]

Wifey and I were coming back from Canada a few years ago and went through the border checkpoint by Port Huron, MI. Going to Canada was fine and coming back through the Canadian side was fine, but when the border guy in the booth on the American side scanned my passport, an alarm went off. He immediately got on the horn and started telling them I "wasn't the guy." My name and DOB also happened to be owned by some thug in California. Not too unusual considering my family name is the second most common in the US and in the year I was born my first name was the most commonly given boys name in the US. (My parents lacked imagination.)

In any case, I obviously did not fit the description of the wanted guy. But the agents inside said something like "We gotta do this anyway." So the agent in the booth told me to stay calm and do what they tell me to do and it'll be fine. I'm like, ok. Do I need to go talk to someone? He didn't get a chance to answer before my car was surrounded by agents with guns yelling at me to put my keys on the roof and keep my hands in sight. They made me get out of the car, raise my hands above my head, and walk backwards until I was well behind my car. Then I had to cross my hands behind my back and bend over. Then an agent came over and cuffed me and led me off to a cell. They did likewise with my wife.

Once inside the cell, they left me alone, still cuffed. After a few minutes a couple of them came in and asked for my SSN and if I'd ever lived in California. I told them my SSN and said no, I'd never lived there. That's when they uncuffed me and told me I could leave. By the time I got out to the front desk Wifey was already there. They explained only that my name and DOB was the same as some wanted thug. They wouldn't tell me anything about the other guy. They did add an electronic flag to my passport records so I wouldn't get stopped again for this. And they explained, without an apology, that their procedural rules required them to act as they did whenever two or more items about a person matched someone who was wanted.

When we finally got to go we went out to the car and found they had left it unattended and unlocked, windows still down. I guess it was close enough to the building where no one felt like it was vulnerable.

I understand the whole explanation they gave, but two items bugged me about it. One, I *clearly* did not match the description of the thug, but some stupid rule made them do what they did. Anytime you take away the ability of the guy on the ground to make a decision based on the facts in front of him, you get stupidity like this. And two, I was never read my rights. I realize that you don't get your rights read if they don't intend to arrest you, but if they didn't intend to arrest me, why the cuffs and guns and drama in the first place?

I've always wondered if someone in line behind us shot a cell phone video of me getting hauled off. I'm sure it made for interesting conversation for those witnessing it.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Templar

I meant during a stop, when approached by an officer, it's required in my state. If you see an officer while walking and you're carrying or if you're next to one driving with the windows down, you're under no obligation to disclose it at all. Only when you are approached by an officer.

IMO, under normal circumstances I would say it is probably going to be OK if you didn't disclose it (like if you ran a stop sign and got pulled over).

In a situation like his though, where you're already acting a fool and tension is already high (to some extent), it was a bad move. Not to mention, this guy was obviously looking for trouble (as evidenced by all of his other videos on the same thing).

I didn't watch the video as i'm trying to get some work done between posts.

But yeah, that's what i meant. In FL, if you're pulled over you're not required to disclose unless asked if you have any weapons in the vehicle. If they don't ask, you don't have to tell.

Once they ask, it's your choice, but disclosure is the smart move.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Wifey and I were coming back from Canada a few years ago and went through the border checkpoint by Port Huron, MI. Going to Canada was fine and coming back through the Canadian side was fine, but when the border guy in the booth on the American side scanned my passport, an alarm went off. He immediately got on the horn and started telling them I "wasn't the guy." My name and DOB also happened to be owned by some thug in California. Not too unusual considering my family name is the second most common in the US and in the year I was born my first name was the most commonly given boys name in the US. (My parents lacked imagination.)

In any case, I obviously did not fit the description of the wanted guy. But the agents inside said something like "We gotta do this anyway." So the agent in the booth told me to stay calm and do what they tell me to do and it'll be fine. I'm like, ok. Do I need to go talk to someone? He didn't get a chance to answer before my car was surrounded by agents with guns yelling at me to put my keys on the roof and keep my hands in sight. They made me get out of the car, raise my hands above my head, and walk backwards until I was well behind my car. Then I had to cross my hands behind my back and bend over. Then an agent came over and cuffed me and led me off to a cell. They did likewise with my wife.

Once inside the cell, they left me alone, still cuffed. After a few minutes a couple of them came in and asked for my SSN and if I'd ever lived in California. I told them my SSN and said no, I'd never lived there. That's when they uncuffed me and told me I could leave. By the time I got out to the front desk Wifey was already there. They explained only that my name and DOB was the same as some wanted thug. They wouldn't tell me anything about the other guy. They did add an electronic flag to my passport records so I wouldn't get stopped again for this. And they explained, without an apology, that their procedural rules required them to act as they did whenever two or more items about a person matched someone who was wanted.

When we finally got to go we went out to the car and found they had left it unattended and unlocked, windows still down. I guess it was close enough to the building where no one felt like it was vulnerable.

I understand the whole explanation they gave, but two items bugged me about it. One, I *clearly* did not match the description of the thug, but some stupid rule made them do what they did. Anytime you take away the ability of the guy on the ground to make a decision based on the facts in front of him, you get stupidity like this. And two, I was never read my rights. I realize that you don't get your rights read if they don't intend to arrest you, but if they didn't intend to arrest me, why the cuffs and guns and drama in the first place?

I've always wondered if someone in line behind us shot a cell phone video of me getting hauled off. I'm sure it made for interesting conversation for those witnessing it.

So, went to Canada for some surgical procedures did ya?