I am glad that I bought my 2025 BMW X4M Competition without knowing it was the last production year of the ICE model. Jump on the last wagon so to speak.

Start building charging statiions or have NACS or CCS and NACS combo on the vehicle's driver's side, and you will likely sell more cars.

Accident wrote

BMW EVs have been profitable for a while.

https://insideevs.com/news/713353/bmw-profit-neue-klasse-x/
"Its current lineup of EVs, like the BMW i5, i4 and iX, are profitable, a company spokesperson told InsideEVs."

https://nytimes.com/2024/03/09/business/bmw-electric-vehicles.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
"What is even more surprising is that BMW, unlike General Motors or Ford Motor, made a profit on the electric vehicles it sold."

BMW Sees Top-End EVs Driving Profit Even as Demand Cools - Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-21/bmw-sees-premium-evs-driving-growth-even-as-demand-cools

https://www.dw.com/en/bmw-says-electric-cars-as-profitable-as-petrol-diesel-cars/a-66703975#:~:text=The%20German%20automaker%20is%20betting,will%20be%20available%20from%202025.&text=German%20car%20manufacturer%20BMW%20makes,It%20will%20be%20very%20profitable.%22
"We make money with every electric car today, and that will be even more the case with the Neue Klasse," Zipse said. "It will be very profitable."

How do they actually account for profitability on EV side? Does it include some credit schemes, etc? Like Tesla, which has carbon credit sales boost bottom line a lot? AFAIK they flopped on Northvolt, they benefit though from platform sharing I assume as only few platforms (IX mainly) is EV only...

This is strange, because IX is similar to Q8 Etron, similar to the mix of Macan EV/Taycan and all of those cars are loss making. Audi is shutting down Q8 Etron (arguably, crappy range so terrible EV) and Porsche spends like 130k on each EV to build one, so without options those cars dont make any money, Taycan likely to be axed and Macan SUV EV is a sales flop. And yet, here is BMW making money on all EVs. Very interesting!

Tallest wrote

How do they actually account for profitability on EV side? Does it include some credit schemes, etc? Like Tesla, which has carbon credit sales boost bottom line a lot? AFAIK they flopped on Northvolt, they benefit though from platform sharing I assume as only few platforms (IX mainly) is EV only...

This is strange, because IX is similar to Q8 Etron, similar to the mix of Macan EV/Taycan and all of those cars are loss making. Audi is shutting down Q8 Etron (arguably, crappy range so terrible EV) and Porsche spends like 130k on each EV to build one, so without options those cars dont make any money, Taycan likely to be axed and Macan SUV EV is a sales flop. And yet, here is BMW making money on all EVs. Very interesting!

In their earnings release, BMW combines EV and ICE revenue and profits, so it's difficult to separate the figures. Keep in mind that BMW sold 426K BEVs last year compared to Audi’s 164K. BMW also keeps its production lines busy. The i4 is built in Munich on the same production line as the ICE G26 and G20. It's very rare for the Munich plant to experience unplanned idling. In contrast, the Q8 e-tron is produced in a dedicated factory that Audi plans to close this year due to low demand.

If this were to come with an S58 I would be harassing the local dealer to get an order in. Not going with the EV, we already have an IX which the wife loves.

Per the images, I think this is one of the best looking models BMW has come out with in years (I know that’s not saying much).

Mercedes reporting..
Mercedes Slides On Profit Plunge, Weak Car Guidance

Sales of Mercedes's electric vehicles in 2024 plunged 23 percent, underlining the slowdown in the shift to EVs that is weighing heavily on carmakers across Europe.

sahajesh wrote

Any idea if this will have air suspension? If not, I’m not interested.

I think that’s unlikely given that the ix3 aligns with the x3 which does not have air suspension. The X5 you could so likely to be available on the ix5. Believe it’s an option on the Ix though.

JMD wrote

LOL! Where is the data regarding the following:

Battery Size
Charge Rate
Hp
Torque
Single Motor? Dual Motors? (..I'd say it's a given the M60 version would have Dual Motors,...So, I suspect it'll have similar power as the i5 M60.

I’m interested in this info too. OP when do you think this information will be available?

I suspect the HP would be similar to the current EV offerings I.e the i5 which has 40 at around 340hp, there’s an i7 with the 50 at 455hp and the 60 in Ix is 544hp and i5 is 600hp.

Dual motor would be denoted by xdrive.

Mogwai888 wrote

I think that’s unlikely given that the ix3 aligns with the x3 which does not have air suspension. The X5 you could so likely to be available on the ix5. Believe it’s an option on the Ix though.

Not necessarily, as it’s NK so a completely new architecture, style etc.

Now is the time for BMW to add features to their new range of cars.

Nevertheless if it doesn’t have air, I’ll either go for the iX or if it looks like worth waiting for, the iX5.

Looking forward to reviewing this thread in 5 years to see how the predictions here shake out. My take is that hybrid and ICE will continue to do well and full EVs will struggle and result in billions of dollars in losses to manufacturers. (China excluded)

Toyoda was correct, investing in hybrid is more aligned to our current realities and actually results in less overall CO2 emission than full BEV. (CO2 emission reduction is supposed to be the entire point of this exercise)

Modular hybrid manufacturing with transmission based hybrid motors with moderate sized batteries will be the future until better tech arrives. (Alt fuels, hydrogen, solid state batteries etc.)

Unless Trump goes completely off the rails the Republicans will be in power for the next 8 years. Vance will take over leadership from Trump…the Democrats are going to be in the wilderness for almost a decade at least.

This will have a significant impact on EV policy and plans by OEMs.

We live in interesting times.

sahajesh wrote

Not necessarily, as it’s NK so a completely new architecture, style etc.

Now is the time for BMW to add features to their new range of cars.

Nevertheless if it doesn’t have air, I’ll either go for the iX or if it looks like worth waiting for, the iX5.

I also want it to have air suspension. It would be stupid if the Audi Q6, Porsche Macan and the future Volvo EX60 had one, but the IX3 didn't. After all, they are in the same class. I was impressed by the picture I attached. For me, the type of suspension is air, if this animation is to be believed.

Add another 10,000 dollars just because of Trump tarriffs in usa. He loves to screw us.

Moving ahead to our next pure EV…

6SPDG82 wrote

Looking forward to reviewing this thread in 5 years to see how the predictions here shake out. My take is that hybrid and ICE will continue to do well and full EVs will struggle and result in billions of dollars in losses to manufacturers. (China excluded)

Toyoda was correct, investing in hybrid is more aligned to our current realities and actually results in less overall CO2 emission than full BEV. (CO2 emission reduction is supposed to be the entire point of this exercise)

Modular hybrid manufacturing with transmission based hybrid motors with moderate sized batteries will be the future until better tech arrives. (Alt fuels, hydrogen, solid state batteries etc.)

Unless Trump goes completely off the rails the Republicans will be in power for the next 8 years. Vance will take over leadership from Trump…the Democrats are going to be in the wilderness for almost a decade at least.

This will have a significant impact on EV policy and plans by OEMs.

We live in interesting times.

Cool story bro....

mcrandle wrote

Add another 10,000 dollars just because of Trump tarriffs in usa. He loves to screw us.

If its produced in USA there will be 0 tariffs. This will be produced in the US i think. But SOP will be later. Im not sure.

I think most people miss the point of hes tariffs. Wanna know the tariffs on a US car in the EU or my country Norway?

How about a $145k sticker Corvette for $299k Used.

https://www.finn.no/mobility/item/369202566?ci=40

Or a 2023 Silverado with a 3L duramax engine for $111k?

https://www.finn.no/mobility/item/390363385?ci=30

If i search Dodge/Chevy cars from 2023-2025 there is 9 for sale right now in Norway. US cars are pretty much locked out from the EU market by tariffs. Only people with "special" interests are willing to pay the premium.

Hansn wrote

If its produced in USA there will be 0 tariffs.

This requires qualification. If assembled in the USA with 100% USA parts, then there is no tariff. My 2024 X3 assembled in South Carolina has 27% USA parts. The rest are imported and would be subject to the Orange Tariff.

JMD wrote

LOL! Where is the data regarding the following:

Battery Size
Charge Rate
Hp
Torque
Single Motor? Dual Motors? (..I'd say it's a given the M60 version would have Dual Motors,...So, I suspect it'll have similar power as the i5 M60.

I think it’s interesting that their biggest profit maker is their automotive section(car repair). Anybody catch that?

6SPDG82 wrote

Looking forward to reviewing this thread in 5 years to see how the predictions here shake out. My take is that hybrid and ICE will continue to do well and full EVs will struggle and result in billions of dollars in losses to manufacturers. (China excluded)

Toyoda was correct, investing in hybrid is more aligned to our current realities and actually results in less overall CO2 emission than full BEV. (CO2 emission reduction is supposed to be the entire point of this exercise)

Modular hybrid manufacturing with transmission based hybrid motors with moderate sized batteries will be the future until better tech arrives. (Alt fuels, hydrogen, solid state batteries etc.)

Unless Trump goes completely off the rails the Republicans will be in power for the next 8 years. Vance will take over leadership from Trump…the Democrats are going to be in the wilderness for almost a decade at least.

This will have a significant impact on EV policy and plans by OEMs.

We live in interesting times.

Hey don’t tell the ev people that evs aren’t popular! They might pop a brain cell!

I don’t see evs having a good year now that Trump got rid of all the ev incentives. That being said depending on how these new evs look visually and the specs I might actually look into one. They do technically offset the co2 output 3 years into ownership, compared to a modern diesel anyways, I did do my own reaearch on that to confirm. I just hate the idea of depending on local power to charge my vehicle up. They already play games with the price of power. The biggest turn off for these evs is the looks, they all look so damn cheesy. Like bmw can’t figure out if they want curves or sharp lines. If the range is reasonable, it looks good, and it doesn’t weight a ton then they might not be so bad.

Personally I would love to see bmw make another REEV using something like the b37 or b47 as a generator to charge the battery pack. That would be super efficient with probably stupid range. A few manufacturers going that way but are using gas generators which is literally worst than a standard diesel efficiency wise.

RL18 wrote

now that Trump got rid of all the ev incentives.

He hasn't. Only the Congress can do it.

There's been a significant drop in the percentage of EVs sold in the US relative to the total number of light vehicle sales, but it's fully explained by Tesla's troubles caused by Musk's antics.

ynguldyn wrote

He hasn't. Only the Congress can do it.

There's been a significant drop in the percentage of EVs sold in the US relative to the total number of light vehicle sales, but it's fully explained by Tesla's troubles caused by Musk's antics.

Look at that I found one…

Evs sales were “rising” because of the incentives put into place using our own tax dollars to give people “free” money when you buy an ev. They also made manufacturers build and sell a certain amount of evs to be able to make an ICE vehicle. It wasn’t because people actually wanted to buy them. The way evs were implemented in the US is a joke. And you should actually be thanking Elon Musk for building a foundation for them to be able have them and charge them somewhere.

I can see where you’re going with this though and I’m not getting into politics with you. If you wanna be mad about Trump and Elon then I’m sure you’ll get plenty of attention on Facebook or reddit. This is a bmw ix3 thread

RL18 wrote

Look at that I found one…

Evs sales were “rising” because of the incentives put into place using our own tax dollars to give people “free” money when you buy an ev. They also made manufacturers build and sell a certain amount of evs to be able to make an ICE vehicle. It wasn’t because people actually wanted to buy them. The way evs were implemented in the US is a joke. And you should actually be thanking Elon Musk for building a foundation for them to be able have them and charge them somewhere.

I can see where you’re going with this though and I’m not getting into politics with you. If you wanna be mad about Trump and Elon then I’m sure you’ll get plenty of attention on Facebook or reddit. This is a bmw ix3 thread

I don't know who you think you've found. I'm here just to keep this thread (which is basically mine) on the factual grounds:

1. The EV incentives are still in place.
2. Tesla sales have dropped (the estimate for Q1 is somewhere at 350K, which is -15% YoY)
3. Tesla brand perception is tied closely to the image of Elon Musk.
4. The most recent EV sales drop (Fall '24 to Jan-Feb '25 - skipping Dec '24 since is weird for obvious reasons) is almost exactly equal to Tesla sales drop Q4 to Q1.
5. Even with the drop in Tesla sales, EV sales are up YoY, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of total vehicle sales.

https://www.anl.gov/esia/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-monthly-sales-updates

ynguldyn wrote

I don't know who you think you've found. I'm here just to keep this thread (which is basically mine) on the factual grounds:

1. The EV incentives are still in place.
2. Tesla sales have dropped (the estimate for Q1 is somewhere at 350K, which is -15% YoY)
3. Tesla brand perception is tied closely to the image of Elon Musk.
4. The most recent EV sales drop (Fall '24 to Jan-Feb '25 - skipping Dec '24 since is weird for obvious reasons) is almost exactly equal to Tesla sales drop Q4 to Q1.
5. Even with the drop in Tesla sales, EV sales are up YoY, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of total vehicle sales.

https://www.anl.gov/esia/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-monthly-sales-updates

Just because it’s your thread it doesn’t mean people can’t disagree with your views. I think we all understand that tesla is volatile as a company but people will still buy the product because it’s still better than most of the evs available. His market is mostly liberal, as soon as he supported Trump the hive mind switched and apparently hates the man who literally created the infrastructure and pushed the competition for evs in America. Love him or hate him or his product his evs are some of the best. Do I like the way they look? No they don’t suit my taste. Which is why I’m hoping that BMW will “make their cars look good again” (see what I did there? ). I’m not opposed to evs, they need to make sense and they don’t right now. You know what does make sense a diesel BEEV. I will stick to my x5d and 335d until something better comes along. To repeat myself... EVs are “up” in sales because:

1. The govt gives the consumer incentives to buy an ev using tax payer dollars.

2. The govt requires that auto manufacturers make and sell a certain amount of evs before the build their ICE vehicles

It’s not natural demand, it’s forced demand. Sure the incentives haven’t been lifted (yet anyways). Excuse me for getting ahead of myself. But I don’t see it lasting. The govt forcing a market shift using tax payer dollars is wrong. Socialism at its best. I think it’s pretty clear whether you want to believe it or not that America doesn’t want socialism considering who is president currently.